IS a seedling going limp okay?

[SoEx]

Sorry to post in here since this may not even be an issue, but I wanted to make sure!

Setup: Hydro, DWC, 22gal, tap water (110ppm), ph 6.0, only thing used so far was a bit of h2o2 (10ml total) and the plants didn't seem to mind.

They're under a 250W HPS with an aircooled reflector. Temperature in the chamber at plant-level has been about 84-86 overnight (first noticed this ~12h ago?). Humidity is <20%, my RH meter only goes down to 20%.

I have four seedlings that came out of my rockwool, finally (6 days since sowing them).

The one that came out first grew to about 2.5-3" tall. The others were coming along similarly, I put a little layer of hydroton over the rockwool in hopes of giving them some support I suppose.

Anyhow, they all seem "okay" but my first, Lemon Stinky A, became all droopy. I came back to find it leaning over quite a bit. I had a fan blowing and it was probably blowing toward it, so that may have contributed, but I'm not sure.

Anyhow, I had to try to prop it up with hydroton, but it seems like it has no more "elasticity" in the stem or something. Gently nudge it, and it just nudges away, as opposed to the other ones that try to right themselves and have some rigidity to their structure.

Lemon Stinky A:




Is how I left it, but he drooped over a bit too after that. I re-arranged and I think I have it well supported from all sides. I have been TRYING to be very careful, but a few hydroton pellets have slammed into them every now and then.

Also, is it normal for the cotyledon on the others to be drooping or curling inward on themselves?







Those are the other three, all have the same curliness to their seed leaves. I'm really sorry if this is a stupid thread and nothing is wrong, I just wanted to ask while I had the chance before things got bad.

I'm a bit paranoid, it's my first grow

Thanks!

 

[SoEx]

Ahh! IT just keeps falling over! I'm getting worried. I raised my hood up a bit more in case the temperature was high or something.

The only thing that I've done so far is adjust the ph to 6 (something I've had to do a few times, after adding rockwool, hydroton, etc) and the small amount of h2o2.

Does anyone know what's going on?

Edit: lights are supposed to go off in a couple of hours (It was 24/0 until they were out of the cubes, now I was going to put it 18/6) But I'm worried that I might kill it if the lights go out and I don't fix whatever is wrong or something.

 

[MynameStitch]

Remove them from the hydroton, you are not supposed to be putting seedlings into a DWC setup, you have to let them grow some roots out of your medium you are using.... then you can put them in the setup.

How wet in the rockwool cube?
They can't be kept saturated, they have a very small tap root going....
so they need a lot of air and when you have it saturated it robs the plants roots of o2.

So remove them from the system and let them grow roots out of the rockwool first, hopefully some of them are not stunted and will grow ok.

Also remove the 250 hps, the reason why they are limpy is ,because they look like they were stretching which caused them to be a little limpy, get some CFL's compact fluros and keep them close. the HPS will also and can cause the plants to grow slow, not the proper spectrum.

the CFL's is a proper spectrum if you get cool blue, you can also keep them close enough to stop them from stretching and they grow nice.
HPS is not a proper spectrum and you can get mixed results some strains like it most don't though. You also can't keep the light close enough to stop the plant from stretching and causing it to limp from it being so stretched, if you keep it close enough you would fry them, this is where CFL's come in, for the first week to 2 weeks they will try to stretch towards the light if you don't have it close enough.

the HPS is too strong for them right now, let alone a waste of money.

 

[SoEx]

Remove them from the hydroton, you are not supposed to be putting seedlings into a DWC setup, you have to let them grow some roots out of your medium you are using.... then you can put them in the setup.

How wet in the rockwool cube?
They can't be kept saturated, they have a very small tap root going....
so they need a lot of air and when you have it saturated it robs the plants roots of o2.

So remove them from the system and let them grow roots out of the rockwool first, hopefully some of them are not stunted and will grow ok.

Also remove the 250 hps, the reason why they are limpy is ,because they look like they were stretching which caused them to be a little limpy, get some CFL's compact fluros and keep them close. the HPS will also and can cause the plants to grow slow, not the proper spectrum.

the CFL's is a proper spectrum if you get cool blue, you can also keep them close enough to stop them from stretching and they grow nice.
HPS is not a proper spectrum and you can get mixed results some strains like it most don't though. You also can't keep the light close enough to stop the plant from stretching and causing it to limp from it being so stretched, if you keep it close enough you would fry them, this is where CFL's come in, for the first week to 2 weeks they will try to stretch towards the light if you don't have it close enough.

the HPS is too strong for them right now, let alone a waste of money.

God damnit.

I'm pretty sure I just killed off the little guy.

I inspected my setup and removed the rockwool slowly, not realizing the taproot had come out of the rockwool (finally). I accidentally bumped it while taking it out of the hydroton and it looks like it got chopped/bent.

The hydroton below it was actually completely dry for some reason. I think I stacked too much hydroton below the rockwool and the rockwool wasn't getting wet at all -- I felt it and it was dry, something I should've OBVIOUSLY been thinking about earlier.

UGH UGH UGH.

First one up with a lovely taproot coming out and I fuckin' killed it. Great start.

As I said, I have an aircooled reflector and a glass sheet on the reflector itself, so I can put the thing down very close to the plants. When it's cooler at night, I was able to keep it 8" away or so, otherwise I've been conservative about how far away I keep the light.

But UGHHHHHH. Also, about MH vs CFL vs HPS, I really don't know. I heard a lot of things. I heard that HPS was fine, that people shouldn't use MH during veg, and that this could last me throughout without any issue.

250W is hardly anything in terms of wasting money/electricity. That's $10 for a month of veg. 2x 100W+ CFLs would be like $8 + initial cost.

I'm going to check on the others cubes. This guy falling over was a lack of water all together, the others "droopiness" may be too much water, correct? Well, brb.

 

[SoEx]

Well, fuck. Ugh.

I checked the other three, they were fine. The hydroton was moist on the bottom few levels and the resulting rockwool was uniformly moist, but not wet or soaking.

God damnit, I swear this blows. I was anticipating seeing my first taproot come out and then I accidentally broke it because I didn't know it was there. Uuuugh.

 

[HeadyPete]

Dude the problem with the light is not heat, but radiant energy from the bulb. Air cooling will not stop a bulb too close from burning leaves. Only enough physical distance will.

Use cfls for seedlings, cool blue to keep them squat. HPS is too much light, wrong spectrum and a waste of money, like Stitch said. You don't need much light at first. There is not much plant metabolism to fuel yet.

Make sure a fan is gently blowing and moving your seedlings 24/7. This strengthens the stem and prevents damping off from killing your seedlings. Damping off is a fungus that appears when the medium is wet, the air is warm and humid and not moving.

 

[MynameStitch]

Whoa dude, calm down; I can see your pissed off. Did you read up on this before you put the seeds in there?

Normally you don't put seedlings in a setup like that......

Giving the plants that much light is like putting jet fuel into a common car... it don't work and it's a waste.

Petey explained it very nicely for me ( thank you petey, glad to have you around cause you know how I confuse peeps sometimes lol)

The seedlings that were limp and fall over is from them being stretchy, the hydroton is hiding the problem I bet. If you do remove them from there take a picture of the seedlings. Trying to stop the seedlings from stretching is crucial sometimes, with them being lanky your risk of them bending and snapping is much higher until you can get them into a setup and then you can put them in deeper in the soil and the lanky part will grow roots, but you risk it being deeper and keeping more of the soil wet and over watering; with hydro you can just add it to there, but with the stem being weak still hydroton can bump it and break it and it's done.

So that's another reason why to wait, let the stem have some strength before putting it in there, that way you don't risk doing what you just now did.

 

[SoEx]

Whoa dude, calm down; I can see your pissed off. Did you read up on this before you put the seeds in there?

Normally you don't put seedlings in a setup like that......

Giving the plants that much light is like putting jet fuel into a common car... it don't work and it's a waste.

Petey explained it very nicely for me ( thank you petey, glad to have you around cause you know how I confuse peeps sometimes lol)

The seedlings that were limp and fall over is from them being stretchy, the hydroton is hiding the problem I bet. If you do remove them from there take a picture of the seedlings. Trying to stop the seedlings from stretching is crucial sometimes, with them being lanky your risk of them bending and snapping is much higher until you can get them into a setup and then you can put them in deeper in the soil and the lanky part will grow roots, but you risk it being deeper and keeping more of the soil wet and over watering; with hydro you can just add it to there, but with the stem being weak still hydroton can bump it and break it and it's done.

So that's another reason why to wait, let the stem have some strength before putting it in there, that way you don't risk doing what you just now did.

I was annoyed because I thought I snapped the taproot.

The plant seems alive again. No, the other seedlings are not droopy, at all. Their seed leaves, yes, but themselves, no. I removed all the hydroton around them (one layer above the rockwool) and they stand well. Yes, they did stretch a bit more than they should have, but that's because my temps were too high and I had to raise my reflector up.

I didn't start them off somewhere else because, at the moment, I have nowhere else to start them.

The other seedlings have always been healthy/sturdy, I was just asking (as I said in my post) if the curling down of the cotyledon was normal or not.

I think things are good for now. I am going to try to make sure I can keep temps low so I can keep the light closer to them to avoid some stretching before I can make a dedicated "veg" chamber next time around. I was surprised, the guy that was completely fallen over, limp, and seemingly dying perked up completely after I watered it and ensured the rockwool was getting some bubble splash from the airstones.

 

[MynameStitch]

Yes, they did stretch a bit more than they should have, but that's because my temps were too high and I had to raise my reflector up.

THat is exactly why I said to use CFL's, because you can keep them close without causing a heat issue and it fixes the stretch


I watered it and ensured the rockwool was getting some bubble splash from the airstones.

This is why you wait to put the plants in there setup until they get an established root system and at least 2 or 3 sets of leaves, this ensures the rockwool will stay moist and not saturated, with plants this size and hardly no roots you have to keep buckets filled up higher and it keeps the rockwool too moist and then you can develop alge growth on the rockwool.