MASSIVE OUTDOOR GROW

[Wolff]

This mild winter is killing me I wanna start an early spring mini but I have a feeling it is going to be one of those years where we don't get the bad weather till mid January through March. This thread has been a real inspiration. I find myself rereading it constantly lol some parts I have read 3-4 times. Too bad I ordered water crystals for almost double the price they were in the link way above lol didn't come across that till a couple days too late....such is life I guess no biggie. need to order more anyway.

It's cool how one can take tons of info and protocal here and apply it to his/her situation and current operation. I mean I am seeing possibilities that before I couldn't realize. Everything is falling into place nicely as far as prep/timing for this next season.

Julian, you start your Moms in January and chopem up maybe mid April I'm assuming with a plant date of round May first. I have a 4' x 2' flourescent fixture and a 4' x 15inch one also. How much room do your moms usually take up per plant? I have very limited indoor experience. never ran anything inside that long...just 2-3 weeks under fluros and out they went. I'm going to stagger my planting and I'm thinking 1 sq. foot per mom is this unreasonable? I'd like to pull about 50 off each minimum. should I just wait till Feb. to start my moms? definitely don't wanna waste anytime as I am as anxious as a virgin on prom night for this coming season. I know there will be a big learning curve as this is my first real commercial attempt.

I'm trying to do this to get into a small service based business like talked about before and just make something with this on the side for gravy and personal. I've had alot of success with predator urine wich I havn't seen mentioned yet. You buy a bottle of it(in my case I chose coyote and wolf. Also panther and mountain lion available) and you squirt a lil bit in a tiny bottle that has a hole and a cotton swab in it. You hang one or too around your plants and anything like deer or rabbits are not coming anywhere near it. they last about a month and after the first month veg the are usually in the clear as far as small anmals and deer eating them. only problem for me was it attracted ****in bear lol walked right through my plot crushing my biggest o.g. kush x blueberry bush. made a nice path right through. i saw a bear...good sized cub (while driving nearby) so that confirmed my suspicions. Now it's also scary as **** thinking you cold get mauled in the woods but you have to realize they are equally afraid of you and have such acute senses they are always long gone before you hit the scene.

 

[Julian]

This mild winter is killing me I wanna start an early spring mini but I have a feeling it is going to be one of those years where we don't get the bad weather till mid January through March.

I know, I've been a little uppity since last was cut Even more so now that starting to realize everything will be gone soon That time usually the worst.....

This thread has been a real inspiration. I find myself rereading it constantly lol some parts I have read 3-4 times.

Thank you....very kind of you to say, and, as always, glad you drew something of use, positive, etc....You never know when it's going to go south and get binned.... Quite possibly shortly....(but will be fun and include a lot of info )

Too bad I ordered water crystals for almost double the price they were in the link way above lol didn't come across that till a couple days too late....such is life I guess no biggie. need to order more anyway.

I don't remember which places there were links to, but, was the organic ones, so....considering the volume, guess we all should use those if we're going to anyway and they do the same job.....

It's cool how one can take tons of info and protocal here and apply it to his/her situation and current operation. I mean I am seeing possibilities that before I couldn't realize. Everything is falling into place nicely as far as prep/timing for this next season.

Yeah...basically my objective was just so that people would see things in a little different way..........you see things a little differently, and, a lot is possible that wasn't before....(same for me....applicable always in every aspect of ones life......)

Julian, you start your Moms in January and chopem up maybe mid April I'm assuming with a plant date of round May first.

Well....target is always a little uncertain because as always, every season a little different...ie: some nice weather comes a little earlier....some a little later, etc...in general..., I shoot for about May 5-7th or so (1st week)......you know.......especially when volume.....just a little off, and you can get overgrown pretty quick, so.....it happens...sometimes early, sometimes a little late...when I hit mid April I start keeping a close eye on the 14 day forecasts, daily, etc....I go pretty tight, so....an extra week can really mess me up sometimes (rounds ready to go out and then next rounds already started, etc, etc...sometimes have to switch up locations, things like that...gets pretty hectic when I'm full force at the beginning....after mid may usually nothing a problem as far as scheduling.....

Jan is usually around the time (I don't always run clones...and, sometimes, will run but not first rounds, will hold some back from first rounds, etc.....reason being as somewhere in thread...I like to cut lead time, so...when already started, well, I'm full anyway, so, doesn't make a difference.....) Anyway......

If I was to do a full run to start from clones would start backwards from target, so, if May 5th target, figure 2 weeks veg on them, after rooted, so, then your at rooting last week April,figure a week or so from cut, so, puts you at April 15th for cuttings, so, Mothers sometime in Jan (bout 75 days from soak......)......You always start at target and work your way backwards.....60 is good for me...

(Have a fem run going on, so......and, as of this second, not really anything planned for next one, so.....(Have a couple things under discussion.....so....we'll see ......seed run is rather large, so......we'll see Not really ready to discuss or want to think about next......will most likely be a quick start....ie: last minute.....)

I have a 4' x 2' flourescent fixture and a 4' x 15inch one also. How much room do your moms usually take up per plant? I have very limited indoor experience. never ran anything inside that long...just 2-3 weeks under fluros and out they went. I'm going to stagger my planting and I'm thinking 1 sq. foot per mom is this unreasonable? I'd like to pull about 50 off each minimum. should I just wait till Feb. to start my moms? definitely don't wanna waste anytime as I am as anxious as a virgin on prom night for this coming season. I know there will be a big learning curve as this is my first real commercial attempt.

Well, I always germ everything close under 1k's, so.....floros your looking at a different timetable...I only use them for clones (rooting), so....you'd be looking at lower growth rates, slower, etc...I mean...if you've run and done it before just use same exposure.....but, change to suit numbers and targets....

(note: sometimes I've used same trays and domes and such to start next rounds when trying to get ahead of schedule, but, not for more than a couple days...ie: I have rounds going out within the week, so, will start to get on it...etc....)

Now, as far as square footage...a little misleading (peoples misconceptions....) ie: They're just moms, veg, etc, going to be shaved, not necessarily maintained, so....tightly spaced, etc, etc...I've done it and really doesn't matter that much (ie: If I am going to shave them down to nothing in a week, 2 weeks, etc...tight spacing and crowded not really something I care about, etc...I mean, not like a room, flower, etc...just veg, and, soon gone, so.....I usually get them to about 3 x 3 bushes...sometimes 4 x 4, etc (but, again, that would be loosely spaced....I get em pretty tight sometimes when only for these purposes, etc....

I'm trying to do this to get into a small service based business like talked about before and just make something with this on the side for gravy and personal. I've had alot of success with predator urine wich I havn't seen mentioned yet. You buy a bottle of it(in my case I chose coyote and wolf. Also panther and mountain lion available) and you squirt a lil bit in a tiny bottle that has a hole and a cotton swab in it. You hang one or too around your plants and anything like deer or rabbits are not coming anywhere near it.

Yeah, I have access to predator urine, etc, but, never really used it..partners sometimes have on hand, but, overall, have heard both sides from people over the years (some say works, some don't....I've wondered about larger cat products ...wanted to try....but, overall....I have never had too many problems with deer and such....smaller animals we do cage also (in previous), so...have had some problems, of course, but, volume really doesn't matter too much..never really experienced a devastating loss.....(loss, here and there, etc, nothing to wipe it out though....)

they last about a month and after the first month veg the are usually in the clear as far as small anmals and deer eating them.

Yeah, in general my situation....as soon as fairly established (maybe July or so), pretty much everything home free.........

only problem for me was it attracted ****in bear lol walked right through my plot crushing my biggest o.g. kush x blueberry bush. made a nice path right through. i saw a bear...good sized cub (while driving nearby) so that confirmed my suspicions. Now it's also scary as **** thinking you cold get mauled in the woods but you have to realize they are equally afraid of you and have such acute senses they are always long gone before you hit the scene.

sorry to hear..........sorry to hear...........that's ****ed up .....That would make me think twice though....would make sure I was armed every run....

 

[Wolff]

sorry to hear..........sorry to hear...........that's ****ed up .....That would make me think twice though....would make sure I was armed every run....

Yeah I was pretty sketched out lol I even broke my .308 down and brought it with me the next time. Then I just went with my .40 figuring if 12 shots of .40 wont drop it then oh well... Luckily I didn't encounter one cuz I really don't wanna shoot'em just felt extremely vulnerable considering the circumstances(cubs around)....anywho....

I'm working on my soil blend and have come up with this tell me what you think Julian as far as this mixture is concerned and if it seems relatively proportionate.

4 parts organic fert 8-2-6(granular)
1/2-1 part Azomite
1 part greensand
1 part kelp meal
1 part rock phosphate
1 part worm castings
1 part dolomoite lime

I was considering the sul-po-mag but think all of the above may cover the bases and my soil is fairly nuetral in ph so trying to keep things balanced.

Also I have no experience with water crystals as I have mentioned before and you said about a 1-4 cup maybe a lil less maybe like 2 tablespoons per plant(using 8 inch auger). Since I dont really feel comfortable mixing the crystals in the soil mix in bulk since I am concerned I may add too much or too little is it feasable to just throw in a tablespoon or so of crystals then say a shovel full of mix(with some existing soil) then mix it up and the repeat that process again filling the hole? lol I hope you catch my drift I almost confused myself there but I am just trying to figure out the best way to ammend the soil and spread the crystals evenly giving each plant enough....

 

[Julian]

Yeah I was pretty sketched out lol I even broke my .308 down and brought it with me the next time. Then I just went with my .40 figuring if 12 shots of .40 wont drop it then oh well... Luckily I didn't encounter one cuz I really don't wanna shoot'em just felt extremely vulnerable considering the circumstances(cubs around)....anywho....

Well, that's what I was thinking also....ie: Yeah, you may not care, yeah, they may not care, but, cubs around, well, probably going to be trouble regardless of your intentions, etc.....

I'd feel fairly safe with a .40 ....You could just beef up the loads on it also if unsure of power , but, I'd think would be enough.....(I used to have a DW .44 sometimes on site (among other things) that I was pretty comfortable with, and, no bear even ......

I'm working on my soil blend and have come up with this tell me what you think Julian as far as this mixture is concerned and if it seems relatively proportionate.

4 parts organic fert 8-2-6(granular)
1/2-1 part Azomite
1 part greensand
1 part kelp meal
1 part rock phosphate
1 part worm castings
1 part dolomoite lime

I was considering the sul-po-mag but think all of the above may cover the bases and my soil is fairly nuetral in ph so trying to keep things balanced.

Well, I always do by eye and readjust, so, would have to think for a minute but the Azomite throws me off.....not sure what the breakdown is....

Feedwise (and, I could be wrong, but, I do it how I do it), I tend to go with a good balance across the board to start, because of course your mix is going to be used most likely by mid veg if going early (if later and smaller of course with a focus more on flower.....

Greensand your light k and my understanding is it's a little slow to break down..Kelp I know a lot of micros and some other good stuff....worm castings are light, so, I always use them a little heavy (my understanding is one could even grow in 100% WC's if they liked because so light..

Rock Phosphate is light P I believe and I think micros, and, I believe also fairly slow to breakdown....(really slow? can't remember, would have to look it up...one of them is, either that or the greensand...anyone is free to correct me.....) I believe it's heavy in Calcium also....

(I'm not an encyclopedia.....I study labels when shopping like many to try and determine what I'm getting, etc, a good even balance, which sometimes (always changes twice by the time mixed and ready to go.....)

The SPM I always have a lot on hand, and, use fairly often...(green is one of the highest feeders I believe of Cal-Mg, so.....I'm always a little sensitive and maybe sometimes overfeed.....)

Note: SPM is heavy K, so.....something to keep in mind..one I use is 0-0-22, so........go easy on it...(some labels as "K-Mag")

I would double check on the breakdown of all and readjust from there....you could go heavier on the WC's..maybe lighter on the lime (I really never use it...some spots I probably should, some maybe not, but...I seem to be okay in general as far as pH,etc....)

You know...you check, you double check...you might learn some things break down more slowly than others, some more quickly than others, etc, you rework, redo, etc......I'm a retard when it comes to micros and such, so, tend to go a little overboard.....

(I do light feed when planted, then a lot of top feeds, sometimes a little liquid, etc, then heavier top feed and liquid into flower, etc, but, again, depends...when I do late ones I am heavier on the P-K...(but still need fair amount of N for initial veg, stretch, etc.....)

See, the other aspect also is how and when your going to be feeding, (ie: if your going to be doing several , then of course later rounds might be a different mix also, but, from the WC and lime, I assume our talking initial planting, etc......so....you might end up doing a couple top feeds and then later a top feed (forgive me if talking a shorter run...I should scam above to make sure because would, again, change everything.....)

Organics not something I've always done......mainly just last couple years...maybe last 5 yrs or so, and, still always adjust and not an expert, etc....

Also I have no experience with water crystals as I have mentioned before and you said about a 1-4 cup maybe a lil less maybe like 2 tablespoons per plant(using 8 inch auger).

Well, again, I do all by eye and feel, but, would also depend on what your starting with anyway (soil)...climate, etc.....(addressed also below)

Since I dont really feel comfortable mixing the crystals in the soil mix in bulk since I am concerned I may add too much or too little is it feasable to just throw in a tablespoon or so of crystals then say a shovel full of mix(with some existing soil) then mix it up and the repeat that process again filling the hole? lol I hope you catch my drift I almost confused myself there but I am just trying to figure out the best way to ammend the soil and spread the crystals evenly giving each plant enough....

Well, everyone knows, regarding crystals, I always tell people (new users)...first thing you want to do when you receive them is grab a gallon jug (milk, whatever), and throw in a tablespoon and fill, then check 30 minutes later....ie: so you get a "feel" for them and can see and feel their power.....etc......then you'll have a better idea.....but, again, depends on what spoil your starting with....

I usually mix them in with my dry mix (which is mixed fairly well overall into hole from start.........fairly well? , well......it's mixed in ...then I also throw some into any liquid used on planting, and, sometimes mix into top layer....

Can you use too much? From what I understand absolutely , but, I think you know if you were

You can do both (dry mix, then also in hole, etc......)

See, again, if your mixing nutes in bulk, etc.....I mean, it will come to basically just "eyeing" it....

(but, should be noted.......you don't want to make too large batches because what if you use it and then you want to use the remainder for a top feed.....later, so....and, again, then, what if your switching over mid project (veg/flower) you might want to adjust your mix again, etc, use remainder as base for the flower mix, etc.......so......when you get them, as above, fill gallon, throw tablespoon and see how they work and that should give you an idea......depends on your soil also.....some you might want more, some you might want less, etc...

Regarding too much, too moist I would not necessarily worry as much as most would due to the very basics of roots.....ie: they will quickly extend far beyond hole, so, should always be okay.....but, again, I would assume dep0ends on soil and region, etc......

 

[Wolff]

Well, that's what I was thinking also....ie: Yeah, you may not care, yeah, they may not care, but, cubs around, well, probably going to be trouble regardless of your intentions, etc.....

I'd feel fairly safe with a .40 ....You could just beef up the loads on it also if unsure of power , but, I'd think would be enough.....(I used to have a DW .44 sometimes on site (among other things) that I was pretty comfortable with, and, no bear even ......

Something to think about for sure... My .40 is a H&K and functions flawlessly with +p and ++p ammo. My buddy has a Magnum Research .500 single action lol that thing is a force to be reckoned with.

Well, I always do by eye and readjust, so, would have to think for a minute but the Azomite throws me off.....not sure what the breakdown is....

I've read some really favorable reviews on Azomite. It's all trace minerals and micronutrients.

Feedwise (and, I could be wrong, but, I do it how I do it), I tend to go with a good balance across the board to start, because of course your mix is going to be used most likely by mid veg if going early (if later and smaller of course with a focus more on flower.....

So start top feeding mid summer maybe once then top feed once or twice in flowering.

Greensand your light k and my understanding is it's a little slow to break down..Kelp I know a lot of micros and some other good stuff....worm castings are light, so, I always use them a little heavy (my understanding is one could even grow in 100% WC's if they liked because so light..

Rock Phosphate is light P I believe and I think micros, and, I believe also fairly slow to breakdown....(really slow? can't remember, would have to look it up...one of them is, either that or the greensand...anyone is free to correct me.....) I believe it's heavy in Calcium also....

From what I've read it is the Rock Phosphate that takes forever to breakdown...I think I read 10 years...

I'm not an encyclopedia.....I study labels when shopping like many to try and determine what I'm getting, etc, a good even balance, which sometimes (always changes twice by the time mixed and ready to go.....)

I'm gonna buy a bunch of stuff and mix it all up trying to not go overboard.

The SPM I always have a lot on hand, and, use fairly often...(green is one of the highest feeders I believe of Cal-Mg, so.....I'm always a little sensitive and maybe sometimes overfeed.....)

Note: SPM is heavy K, so.....something to keep in mind..one I use is 0-0-22, so........go easy on it...(some labels as "K-Mag")

I'll add it to my list sounds important lol

I would double check on the breakdown of all and readjust from there....you could go heavier on the WC's..maybe lighter on the lime (I really never use it...some spots I probably should, some maybe not, but...I seem to be okay in general as far as pH,etc....)

yeah my ph is like 6.5 so maybe just use the lime a little more sparingly if at all.

You know...you check, you double check...you might learn some things break down more slowly than others, some more quickly than others, etc, you rework, redo, etc......I'm a retard when it comes to micros and such, so, tend to go a little overboard.....

seems to workout pretty good for you I'd say all in all lol not bad...

I do light feed when planted, then a lot of top feeds, sometimes a little liquid, etc, then heavier top feed and liquid into flower, etc, but, again, depends...when I do late ones I am heavier on the P-K...(but still need fair amount of N for initial veg, stretch, etc.....)

See, the other aspect also is how and when your going to be feeding, (ie: if your going to be doing several , then of course later rounds might be a different mix also, but, from the WC and lime, I assume our talking initial planting, etc......so....you might end up doing a couple top feeds and then later a top feed (forgive me if talking a shorter run...I should scam above to make sure because would, again, change everything.....)

keep that in mind..Just planning early runs right now and will adjust mix as i go later into season and hope i can keepup output. All depends on how many good spots I manage to find and plan out my M.O.

Organics not something I've always done......mainly just last couple years...maybe last 5 yrs or so, and, still always adjust and not an expert, etc....

Well, again, I do all by eye and feel, but, would also depend on what your starting with anyway (soil)...climate, etc.....(addressed also below)


Well, everyone knows, regarding crystals, I always tell people (new users)...first thing you want to do when you receive them is grab a gallon jug (milk, whatever), and throw in a tablespoon and fill, then check 30 minutes later....ie: so you get a "feel" for them and can see and feel their power.....etc......then you'll have a better idea.....but, again, depends on what spoil your starting with....

yeah I've just been reading general organic recipes people use trying to get a feel for whats good and approximately what ratios to use. I need to do that with the crystals to get a feel for them.

I usually mix them in with my dry mix (which is mixed fairly well overall into hole from start.........fairly well? , well......it's mixed in ...then I also throw some into any liquid used on planting, and, sometimes mix into top layer....

Can you use too much? From what I understand absolutely , but, I think you know if you were

You can do both (dry mix, then also in hole, etc......)

See, again, if your mixing nutes in bulk, etc.....I mean, it will come to basically just "eyeing" it....

(but, should be noted.......you don't want to make too large batches because what if you use it and then you want to use the remainder for a top feed.....later, so....and, again, then, what if your switching over mid project (veg/flower) you might want to adjust your mix again, etc, use remainder as base for the flower mix, etc.......so......when you get them, as above, fill gallon, throw tablespoon and see how they work and that should give you an idea......depends on your soil also.....some you might want more, some you might want less, etc...

great so just eye it and mix accordingly...seems easy enough and i really just need to get out there and get exposure with the stuff. just trying to get as much of a grasp as I can...Thanks

Regarding too much, too moist I would not necessarily worry as much as most would due to the very basics of roots.....ie: they will quickly extend far beyond hole, so, should always be okay.....but, again, I would assume dep0ends on soil and region, etc......

I got a great region(Appalachia, foothills) great soil for the most part some kinda rocky and clay. Good rainfall rarely go 2 weeks without rain in the summer. very lush growth...perfect. I really think this year will be an outstanding one for me(based on personal goals and expectations) and again can't thank you enough for the wealth of knowledge and attention you have given to this thread. Nice to have somebody helping just to help...selflessly

 

[Manic Euphoria]

i find this thread....read through the 68 pages.....just to find out the party is about over....was a good read..hope to catch the next sooner.

 

[Julian]

Something to think about for sure... My .40 is a H&K and functions flawlessly with +p and ++p ammo. My buddy has a Magnum Research .500 single action lol that thing is a force to be reckoned with.

I love those socom's ...

I've read some really favorable reviews on Azomite. It's all trace minerals and micronutrients.

Yeah, going to look it up, check a couple sources to get a breakdown...(maybe I do know what it is, just different label, etc, etc...not familiar with it though....)

So start top feeding mid summer maybe once then top feed once or twice in flowering.

Well, again, your going for "feel", etc, etc...a guesstimate, etc, short of an actual weekly soil test and analysis...ya know?.....

I was thinking back on my year, and, for the earliest/earlier(larger) things, I think I did........abbboooout............hmmm......maybe 3-4 cups in hole and around base.....(got a couple large cokes from Mcdonalds on way out there, larger plastic cups, and, used a fair amount....sometimes all, sometimes 70-80% of cup....I figure maybe 3 cups, full maybe 4? (aren't those 20-24oz's...the large plastic ones?...That's what I used to scoop and dust each hole with (and I instructed them to do about the same, but, again, all about feel so, hard.....)

That's on a 1' x 3' hole,plants 6"-1ft (but were on nutes since almost day one, lighter of course....), worked in dirt from holes and around base.....after that I think we did about once a month or every three weeks or so..(again, many, many plots, so, a little staggered...would do a round, then next week another round of spots, then week after another round, etc...when your doing numbers, multiple spots, literally physically impossible to hit every spot, every week....

Now, of course, as above, you will have things that break down slower also, so, have to remember that, and, of course, not going to be immediate, so, I hit them for flower little in advance of course of actual flower, ya know?....(maybe later July, early Aug, etc...all depends on strain and when triggered......some things might have hit early , mid July (writing off a week from the start, for the most part, then allowing for later rounds....

Nothing I had this year really had any problems, and, atually I was discussing with people (close, life) about how actually I was laughing because I was almost sure some got hit a little heavy when in reality wasn't enough in the end, could have hit them with even more..(ut, of course, fine line between a lot, and too much, etc, so...who knows...if I had done heavier might have had a problem......but...really didn't, and, of course, all have to always keep in mind basics, being heavy heavy iet?....sure, might be too much for something small....etc, but, once they get into the season, established, get some size, I mean.....even a 4-5 footer in summer sun can eat a lottt.....

The largest ones (couple pics above...had a lot of things well over 10ft, etc...I mean......I hit those things harder and harder and harder and never saw any problems.......

ie: diet increases with size, which increase with conditions, etc, etc...more sun one gets, larger one gets, etc, etc....so.....another thing to factor in...diet changes weekly outdoors basically.....

From what I've read it is the Rock Phosphate that takes forever to breakdown...I think I read 10 years...

Probably....don't recall exact specifics but heard is beneficial for years.....

I'll add it to my list sounds important lol

Well, basically your K-Cal-Mag, so....my problem when mixing up batches is of course really high K, so.....but Cal-Mag beneficial from day one, so, again, a balance, etc.......lot of people might have a lot of different things to say, but, I always have a lot around, I like it, and, think good thing to have on hand ....

yeah my ph is like 6.5 so maybe just use the lime a little more sparingly if at all.

Well, something else for people to remember, (again, I'm by no means an organics guru...) is that certain things also in mi may affect..(for example, I think I remember potash being like......12 or something???? (double checking right now................)

Yep.......pH of 12 , so.......things people should keep in mind about their mixes..(I remember that because I remember a shopping trip where I was just walking, pointing, etc, and, then stopped and remember the 12 ......so......)

6.5 sounds nice though for straight native.........(They do have soil test kits for pennies (whatever, 5 bucks or whatever for several I think...saw some on a recent trip but don't use them because I run so many spots......not going to spend all that time on that many spots.....(who knows also..yeah, cheap...but, ****, If I have to buy 100-200 kits ...nah.....)

seems to workout pretty good for you I'd say all in all lol not bad...

Well, you know, as above........you have many different requirements....then you have many different sources, then you have different rates of ...whatever..decomposition/breaking down, so....I always thought best to try and make mix as varied as possible..(so, yes, might require x..(whatever, name it), but, instead of one source, might have 5, etc........many different sources for some things...all a little different, all different micro content (andf, again, different rate to break down...), so....just my own theory.....I do it, think best (might be right, might be wrong...just my own theory.....)

keep that in mind..Just planning early runs right now and will adjust mix as i go later into season and hope i can keepup output. All depends on how many good spots I manage to find and plan out my M.O.

And that's how it ends up the majority of the time.....(adjust as you go along, etc...in or out, large or small, etc...trial and error, etc...such is life...any and all aspects...) Only you know...only you see.......so....

yeah I've just been reading general organic recipes people use trying to get a feel for whats good and approximately what ratios to use. I need to do that with the crystals to get a feel for them.

About right......Can also use to some degree the feeding schedules for an idea...(ie: my supplies come in bulk from larger centers, so...a lot will say xxxlbs, etc, per acre, etc, per 100 sq,. ft, etc, etc, so, I sometimes use those as a light baseline also for what is heavier and lighter, etc.....

Note to any and all:
When mixing, etc...always wear gloves, masks........make sure area well ventilated..........(when you catch a ****ing lung full of a guano cloud......man....you'll know why I say this .....simple unpacking and mixing can sometimes not be a simple insignificant task.......I would tell people be very careful with all such things.......ie: You bust out a 25lbs+ bag of guano, even pouring as light as you can, your still going to create a cloud with a size that it will surprise you ......very, very nasty shit........very........people should be careful.......)

great so just eye it and mix accordingly...seems easy enough and i really just need to get out there and get exposure with the stuff. just trying to get as much of a grasp as I can...Thanks

More you work with it, more you get a handle on it....as above....from initial planning through final mix you might change entire thing 10 times.......even when mixing....might throw in 20lbs of something.....might throw in 5 more...10 more...etc...as you go along, things always change.........

I got a great region(Appalachia, foothills) great soil for the most part some kinda rocky and clay.

I'm familiar. Astounding area......

Good rainfall rarely go 2 weeks without rain in the summer. very lush growth...perfect.

Once you get things established (i find...ime...imo.....).....that's more than fine (heavy every 2 weeks), can even go more actually (this year think one stretch early on went like a month.........again...something which a lkot of variables enter the picture....

As earlier in thread.....if your talking open, unprotected surface.....entire different matter than an area with dense vegetation, etc(as far as ground cover, etc........) My city spots, wide open, no cover.....surface dries very quickly...forest spots?....****....month without rain once they hit 5-6 feet is fine..(again, surface conditions vary dramatically from 2-3-4ft down, etc......same deal...earlier in thread mention of sahara I believe....6" below surface ground is xx degrees cooler...(don't remember..in thread should be correct...had just seen it recently when I wrote it...maybe 30 degrees.....50 degrees cooler...as little as 6".....so......I think people overlook that (preoccupied with surface conditions...oblivious to true conditions of roots, etc.......

I'd say a heavy rain every 2 weeks is absolutely fine (and, again.....larger the hole, crystals....all factors will again change that overall...might make 3 weeks not a problem, etc, and, again, going back.....you keep a close eye on weather (I do, like...daily......was laughing recently because now season over,....I have absolutely no clue of weather...haven't checked a report in quite a while now (mid october? .....quite a change on knowing hourly changes .......

I really think this year will be an outstanding one for me(based on personal goals and expectations) and again can't thank you enough for the wealth of knowledge and attention you have given to this thread. Nice to have somebody helping just to help...selflessly

Humbled and flattered.....glad of interest and use.....my only interest.....

Keep your expectations low...no matter how things look at any given time (anything can change from one moment to the next...another reason why the volume, at least for me......My estimates are low (yield)...cost estimates are loose.....and never feel good, safe, until all in......(****....everything could go fine and you could lose on transport back with loads.....so.....your never done until your done.............me? it's almost like I hold my breath from start of season till in...trimmed, etc..........

Think positive......and develop good overview so you can alter approach at any given time and deal with any problem which might arise quickly and easily......(chances are many will If they don't?...a blessing and you were lucky....next season might not be the same .....)

 

[Julian]

i find this thread....read through the 68 pages.....just to find out the party is about over....was a good read..hope to catch the next sooner.

Nice of you to say...glad of interest......and respect for actually reading this whole ****ing thing .....

 

[Julian]

Lot of things on plate lately...lot of things on my mind...lot of discussions, and, thinking about adding some and taking things in a slightly different but related direction.....

Specifically relating to security issues, sources, informants, agencies actual exposure in their regions, and, also, shipping...(freight, USPS,FedEx, etc, etc...) dogs, scents, packaging, vacuum sealing, package profiling and parcel interdiction teams....

(Most have no idea there are actually such things as "parcel interdiction teams", and, especially "package profiling" ...)

Majority seem to become a little lax on security.,..most of the time when all is well, but, we forget...even when all is well.....they're there......all the time.......working hard....non stop......

That being said......My book recommendation it seems of the week is this one......... Table of contents speaks for itself.....

(Check around also on this one....prices range from $80 all the way to $150 on some sites..........single paragraph might make or save one 100 , or even 1000+ times that ....)

 

[NPK]

You never know when it's going to go south and get binned.... Quite possibly shortly...

That's exactly why I started copying this thread some weeks back--only just now finished. Even with some judicious editing, and trimming redundant/not applicable info, it still comes in at 487 single-spaced pages. WELL worth the effort.

Assuming another mild winter, my outdoor season will begin in a scant ten weeks. Now I'm growing out mother plants: the first run, good lord willin', is going to be C99, Hindu Skunk, and Mummia (clones). These are all supposed to finish under 60 days, so I hope to see flowers early in May; the days will still be short enough to trigger. Gonna start putting 'em out in pre-prepped holes around the last week of February or first week of March.

I'm not usually one to wish the time away--but come on, 2008!

 

[Julian]

That's exactly why I started copying this thread some weeks back--only just now finished. Even with some judicious editing, and trimming redundant/not applicable info, it still comes in at 487 single-spaced pages. WELL worth the effort.

Hey brother......hope all is well in your corner...hope everything well....

Wow?.....really?..... ****.....and that's not even everything!! (not even scratching the surface on many things.....)

I'm ****in honored man anyone would even take the time, the trouble to.....

****in honored.......truly......

Glad of interest....glad something drawn from it.....useful....of interest.....might benefit one in any way......(You know man...I'm of the minimal school ...ie: If one person gets one thing that directly affects them in one beneficial way...I mean, **** man.....that's significant man......

487!!!..........fuk.......(and that's without the pics ....seeeeeee....pics would have really ****ed it up, made it long....has to be like 100 pics or so..., none really shrunk/resized....so...(and not even as many pics as could have been ...)

Glad I can help man......glad I can help.....

Assuming another mild winter, my outdoor season will begin in a scant ten weeks.

Wow.........I envy all who that is the case ...(I'm jonesin now.....fiending big time .....much more than usual for a variety of reasons..........some of which I know and am aware and some not )

(Althoughhhhhhhh.....I have been talking to someone in such a climate.......might take a 90 day vacation there soon .....or not ...who knows.......I gotta say.........what is really, really fun for me...is when one comes across someone who has a passing knowledge......ie: someone who has grown couple times....bagseed......fairly small....etc....not really 100% constant and steady knowledge of growing as a whole...ie: yeah, they did several batches, but, did a lot of things throughout incorrect, etc......ie: flower too soon, too late, nute issues, bagseed....wrong dry, incorrect cure, etc, etc....and introducing them to the next level (ie: known and documented quality stock.....expanded and through diets...etc......ie: someone who has no idea what that even such exists.....

(I recently mader someone aware of exactly how much stock available, the selection, etc, etc....was funny....they had no clue such things existed.....only exposure to anything maybe a single HT mag a year or two, etc, nothing more...)

Now I'm growing out mother plants: the first run, good lord willin', is going to be C99, Hindu Skunk, and Mummia (clones). These are all supposed to finish under 60 days, so I hope to see flowers early in May; the days will still be short enough to trigger. Gonna start putting 'em out in pre-prepped holes around the last week of February or first week of March.

See, now, that lost me a little.......I thought in regions that allow it was more like January to April finishing...etc....(or are you forcing?????...........)

(make sure to try and get holes done in advance if possible..(unless talking mini's.....)...gives animals a chance to go through them, etc......I never have problems when holes done advance....when holes done same as planting (on early, large ones....always have a few problems....)

They're goin?.......good......good........(egggggggggggxcellent...............)

I'm not usually one to wish the time away--but come on, 2008!

Shhhhhhhhhhhh moving far to fast for me......36hr day and 10 day weeks wouldn't be enough time ......(besides...gives you a chance to plan, reflect, review...etc.....might change things, etc....so.....I typically try to take the down time for what it is....ie: enjoy it now because won't /can't later .....but.......sometimes have a serious problem doing that .....)

Yeah, 10 weeks?....ppfffftttt.......merely a couple nights sleep away... .....(I don't even have a May spot at the moment......so......has me a little...........a little...........whatever ...but, know I could get one tomorrow for a spring project and probably at the very least have one last minute by July if I hustled......(which we all know is fine.....July 15+ absolutely fine......time to get things done, time to get some size, etc, etc......I like mid season ones and late best anyone....too much little crap on the monsters.....

Yeah...thread......I have no problem with conflict and principle is more important to me than thread....so..........

Ya never know ....

 

[NPK]

Wow?.....really?..... ****.....and that's not even everything!! (not even scratching the surface on many things.....)

I'm ****in honored man anyone would even take the time, the trouble to.....

Dude, you seem surprised, but you shouldn't be. I noticed about four other people said they wanted to copy it, too, and look how many people said they'd buy your book if only you'd write it! This is an amazing read, and very information-dense. Hell, I got a ton more out of just copying, pasting, and editing it, even though I'd already read it once from the beginning.

487!!!..........fuk.......(and that's without the pics ....seeeeeee....pics would have really ****ed it up, made it long....

Yeah, 487 pages, even with editing (and minus the smilies, unfortunately). That's almost an entire package of paper, single-spaced (12 point font). Pics were not necessary, and I wouldn't have included 'em even if they'd been here. Don't need pics to get the basic concepts.

.....and that's not even everything!! (not even scratching the surface on many things.....)

Well hell man, get scratchin'!

Wow.........I envy all who that is the case ...(I'm jonesin now.....fiending big time .....much more than usual for a variety of reasons..........some of which I know and am aware and some not )

Hmmm, gotta be some way to scratch that itch.

(Althoughhhhhhhh.....I have been talking to someone in such a climate.......might take a 90 day vacation there soon .....or not ...who knows.......

I say take the vacation.

See, now, that lost me a little.......I thought in regions that allow it was more like January to April finishing...etc....(or are you forcing?????...........)

That may be possible in some latitudes; I'm basing target dates on when I personally grew outside last (well, this) year in my region. I put out a few plants in early March and was able to harvest them at around three feet in early May. Probably could have gotten 'em out a week earlier, that's why I'm shooting for a late February planting, if day temps are in the high 50s/low 60s. The day length will be 11-ish hours--perfect to initiate flowering.

Forcing wouldn't be necessary from March to May because of the already-short days, but I will definitely do some forcing (only of plants on my property) from May to September/October. I have to say, despite the twice-daily schlepping of plants, I LOVE FORCING. It enabled me to pull two extra crops, for a total of four crop rotations, in my back yard this year. Next year I'm going to get a do-it-yourself canopy-type garage structure at CostCo, cut it down in height, (maybe) spray-paint the inside black, and use that force a bunch of girls in five-gallon buckets of soil. Thing costs less than $200, why reinvent the wheel by building something from scratch? Was talking to another guy who suggested it after he used one successfully, even though it wasn't perfectly dark. A person can fit quite a few good-sized plants in one of those. My little structure was fairly productive (frankly, it saved my ass) so I like the idea of a bigger one.

(make sure to try and get holes done in advance if possible..(unless talking mini's.....)...gives animals a chance to go through them, etc......I never have problems when holes done advance....when holes done same as planting (on early, large ones....always have a few problems....)

Yeah, I was going to prep the holes first, but the first round is going to be all minis. Since they'll be much smaller holes, I'm guessing it won't take that long. I'm guessing it would be more efficient to dig and plant all at once?

 

[GroBoy2000]

I think I agree with many here, a very inspiring and intelligent read this has been

Hopefully it can continue (but either way, also went back for a little C&P

Books are on the wish list....(candlestick stocks, art of war, i ching, and the most recent, ha, where do you find these?)

Either way, I've been wondering if I could do a spring crop too, so hard to wait if you think you can be getting buds sooner

My temps come feb 21 has avg highs in the 60s/70s, with virtually no nights below 35, avgs probably 50s at that time....

I thought about using plastic mulch or rocks or something to hold heat through the night better

NPK, how long do you veg the plants for spring?
I'm thinking like 2 weeks maybe? maybe younger? like straight 12/12?

thanks for the thread all, one of the better reads of this year

 

[NEToker]

Question for Julian: Considering you are not growing on your own property..how would you go about transporting the goods as stealthfully as possible? i.e from the patch to trim center?..would you take multiple trips? or all in one shot deal...do you go at night? how do you conceal the plants in the vehicle?

 

[NPK]

NPK, how long do you veg the plants for spring?
I'm thinking like 2 weeks maybe? maybe younger? like straight 12/12?

Groboy, when I put out my plants last year in early March, they were probably around 10". Given the short day length, it was effectively 12/12; however, those plants still stretched quite a bit, finishing at around 3'.

When I force-flower, unless I have specific information to the contrary, I assume the plants will at least double and possibly triple in height after 12/12. The blackout structure I used last season was about 5'6" high. I didn't want 'em much above four feet, so I started forcing my plants at around 18".

Because I was shooting for multiple crop rotations, I didn't grow any one plant from the beginning of the season to the end.

 

[Julian]

Dude, you seem surprised, but you shouldn't be. I noticed about four other people said they wanted to copy it, too, and look how many people said they'd buy your book if only you'd write it! This is an amazing read, and very information-dense. Hell, I got a ton more out of just copying, pasting, and editing it, even though I'd already read it once from the beginning.

Well, just humbling, ya know?...

Yeah, 487 pages, even with editing (and minus the smilies, unfortunately).

Dude...you killed my smileys? (Just ****in with cha )...

That's almost an entire package of paper, single-spaced (12 point font).

I always laugh and wondered wtf they call em a ream (a joke, I can look up origin if curious )

I say take the vacation.

I'm workin on it ....not as simple as it sounds...always sittin on a local house of cards, ya know? Not easy for me to get away....(nothing to do with money.....more all the bullshit I have to address every day, day in and day out.......)

But....workin on it (at least to head out, get everything underway.....said person 100% trustworthy.....we go back to before dirt ....)

That may be possible in some latitudes; I'm basing target dates on when I personally grew outside last (well, this) year in my region. I put out a few plants in early March and was able to harvest them at around three feet in early May.

Well, that's kinda what I was sayin..(end April/May 1st, etc.....which is my understanding of the spring finish...April/May, then reverts to veg, etc....) You know...the more I get closer to it the more research I do .....Climate allows it, but, not a very friendly place, and, of clourse, right spot always huge issue, etc....Was kind of the schedule I have in mind more or less (early mini run)

Probably could have gotten 'em out a week earlier, that's why I'm shooting for a late February planting, if day temps are in the high 50s/low 60s. The day length will be 11-ish hours--perfect to initiate flowering.

See....I always go by night temps as deciding factor.....

I have to say, despite the twice-daily schlepping of plants,

Why not just use carts....something...(I always shoot for things that can be rolled, etc......) Could do something make it easier....(or vs. versa with building...lot of things where you just remove covers instead, etc...

I LOVE FORCING. It enabled me to pull two extra crops, for a total of four crop rotations, in my back yard this year. Next year I'm going to get a do-it-yourself canopy-type garage structure at CostCo, cut it down in height, (maybe) spray-paint the inside black, and use that force a bunch of girls in five-gallon buckets of soil. Thing costs less than $200, why reinvent the wheel by building something from scratch? Was talking to another guy who suggested it after he used one successfully, even though it wasn't perfectly dark. A person can fit quite a few good-sized plants in one of those. My little structure was fairly productive (frankly, it saved my ass) so I like the idea of a bigger one.

I would think options and different approaches are endless.....(inground pool always in back of my mind...is again this year, especially with the earlier spring run in southern region ....

Most of the time I really have no interest in them due to attention (daily....) typically I'd rather just stay away (was talking to someone just last night about that....minimal oversight/visits...etc......)

(Plus...I tend to push things a little farther than I should in general.....I've seen a lot of things...(outbuildings, structures, greenhouses, etc.....)...they always make me a little nervous..(setting them up, on land, etc.....)

Yeah, I was going to prep the holes first, but the first round is going to be all minis. Since they'll be much smaller holes, I'm guessing it won't take that long. I'm guessing it would be more efficient to dig and plant all at once?

I got cha.....Well, you know....you can also just do the whole spot if not a large space...since they're so close to each other anyway...ya know? (I sometimes do that for solid patches...just turn and mix entire spot......unless soil nice to start out with and then I just do rapid smaller holes by hand....Holes still help...your yield...even for smaller ones.....so..(but, as always depends on soil also....native...)

Depends on your numbers.....health (yours)....I mean...if you work straight through........and, can handle it...you'd be surprised at what you could do (numbers) even yourself in an entire single day....(mini's.....small holes...minimal prep?......single person could easily do I think whatever they like......my later runs I was doing 100 an hour....but, that was serious quick and no breaks.....non stop...pushing, etc......dry mix...holes probably like a 16 oz cup size more or less.....)

 

[Julian]

I think I agree with many here, a very inspiring and intelligent read this has been

Hopefully it can continue (but either way, also went back for a little C&P

As always very kind of you to say...glad of interest....

Books are on the wish list....(candlestick stocks, art of war, i ching, and the most recent, ha, where do you find these?)

Natural curiosity.......information that I seek ......

Definitely not Oprah's book of the month club ....

Either way, I've been wondering if I could do a spring crop too, so hard to wait if you think you can be getting buds sooner

My temps come feb 21 has avg highs in the 60s/70s, with virtually no nights below 35, avgs probably 50s at that time....

I thought about using plastic mulch or rocks or something to hold heat through the night better

I'd check other ops in region....for temps, etc.....I have do do the same for different location thinking about, but, sure will be fine....I get a little anal about night temps sometimes, and, have had times where I realize probably they were fine....so....but, another huge aspect (and, flip side is heat issues also....) is, yeah, a lot depends on medium/ground temps, etc.......That's primary interest.....and, lot of ways one can keep ground and even air under control....knew a guy who used his water in greenhouses.....ie: absorb heat in day , release at night, etc.......shit like that.....lot of ways....if greenhouse also the generators/burners..., etc.....

thanks for the thread all, one of the better reads of this year

Glad of interest......

 

[Julian]

Question for Julian: Considering you are not growing on your own property..

Per se.......

how would you go about transporting the goods as stealthfully as possible? i.e from the patch to trim center?..would you take multiple trips? or all in one shot deal...do you go at night? how do you conceal the plants in the vehicle?

Much above and earlier.....

Multiple rounds also helps a lot to keep the size down, workload down.......I think anyone of any size almost should stagger their rounds......different things, different finishing times, etc.........makes things a lot easier...spreads things out....and, different methods also (sometimes hung out, sometimes brought back, etc.......some things earlier...some things mid...some later..some last, etc.......)

 

[Brad]

cheers for all the good info in here julian,you done a good thing!

 

[Julian]

cheers for all the good info in here julian,you done a good thing!

Humbled and honored.....Very nice of you to say.......

Was going to go back and read through myself actually to see what needs to be added....next round of things to cover actually....

Plus, that op/spot/location is done.........so...was also going to add things before unable to due to security issues....location, people involved, etc.....really heartbroken actually.....spot(larger) was really unbelievable......absolutely no restrictions really across the board........

I call that "free reign" .....

Truly a shame it's done.....anything, anytime, anywhere, in the open, mid day.....no restrictions at all...Truly a shame that one lost....(and I really need a lot more of that PPP......asap....so...have to get on something soon .. was very well received and not nearly enough....so.....what can I say....been missing the Tues/Thurs meetings lately