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what medium would you use based on quality only
- Thread starter alpo
- Start date
goingrey
Well-known member
Do you mean in the net pots as you're posting in the hydro forum?
Does it really make a huge difference in quality? Most of the roots would be under the pot no?
I haven't done any real hydro grows yet but I'm thinking Seramis or LECA.
Or maybe Seramis with a LECA topping. Works very well as a passive hydro medium. The roots seem to like the Seramis and the LECA topping prevents algae forming on the top.
Does it really make a huge difference in quality? Most of the roots would be under the pot no?
I haven't done any real hydro grows yet but I'm thinking Seramis or LECA.
Or maybe Seramis with a LECA topping. Works very well as a passive hydro medium. The roots seem to like the Seramis and the LECA topping prevents algae forming on the top.
Plookerkingjon
Active member
What medium would I use bass strictly on quality? Living soils, it's finally been proven unequivocally from what I've read and seen online that living soils and the plant communicate with one another and a healthy living soil allows the plant to hit its peak potential, I've also seen folks that are 34 years my senior that have been at this a lot longer than me stress their play it's a little bit. Just my opinion
alpo
Active member
any soil-less medium is hydroponics
goingrey
Well-known member
Ok if that is what you meant I believe the best medium is water, provided as a fine mist to the roots (aeroponics). Or it gives the possibility for very precise nutrition control which then could be taken advantage of by a skilled grower to produce high quality buds. Not a silver bullet by any means.
Douglas.Curtis
Autistic Diplomat in Training
Living soil does not mean all water only, for all time. Living soil benefits from additional teas from time to time, especially since all conditions (especially indoor) have a few issues here and there.
Corpselover Fat
Active member
I wouldn't. I highly doubt the end result will be any better or worse in any medium if they are used correctly.
alpo
Active member
you think all hydro methods are equal?
Corpselover Fat
Active member
I think some may be grow a bit faster, but I doubt any of them make for better or worse end product.
definately peat moss and (red) kelp taste the best to me in organic soil. but every time i say this around people who get paid or would like to get paid for knowing things, they all act like they're going to fight me because then they'd have to admit they don't know a single thing about taste because they all use coco like a bunch of trained cattle. how can you not notice the taste of peat moss. how can you not notice the taste of everything in your soil. i'm like a god of total correctness to people who can't taste things at all.
There are many great soilless mediums. Use what you have access to. I use HP promix. I have no complaints about it.. The knowledge of the grower will have an impact on which method they use. Are you a new grower or advanced?
just cause i'm feisty i'm gorna add the addendum. consider the opposite - this is how one gains erudition.
i live in arizona and have smoked a fair amount of weed grown by desert rats. this is indisputible, try to understand if you're a contentious person. they will grow in anything organic they can get. sometimes it's not worth it. just don't.
i've smoked weed grown in: cowshit, horse shit, chicken shit, bat shit, dog shit, human shit. i've also worked on a pig rescue so i know the smell of pig shit. any competent human can tell the difference in smell between all these kinds of shit. anyone who has ever been in the country can smell the difference, i hope you can at least.
it is disgusting to me when someone grows with crap from a large animal. you need to compost manure, grow something with it, then use that as compost.
i remember these two fools handed me a joint that was dripping with horse rectum oil. how can you enjoy the high when you have to spend half an hour gagging.
so, from this, understand. whatever is in your soil, you can taste. dude throws his dog plops on his plant, you can taste it. hash from outdoor grow in cow manure, you can taste it, even as hash, for sure.
people are accustomed to the taste of soilless mediums and hydro. fair enough. it's better than crap. but like you can taste when hydro growers use humic supplements, there are things you can grow in that are going to add something that may be pleasant. i don't need to hear any alleged purist claim that minimal is the best because it's the most weed and least other stuff. there are negative tasting supplements and there are positive tasting supplements.
i don't think there's a lot of data on this because so many growers are followers, and others don't like to share their secrets or waste their breath talking to followers or competing with all the self proclaimed legends. but if there's one good thing that comes out of smoking weed that people grew in their own actual shit, it's the awareness that medium is not some vague area. it is always exactly specific, it is exactly what it is.
you can taste every-thing. it's really true.
i don't spend much money but parcelling up the natural world to sell as growing medium seems like it's been stretched real thin for decades now. if you can find something you like to grow in, you're fortunate, make sure you got enough of it, it will probably be different in the future.
2c
i live in arizona and have smoked a fair amount of weed grown by desert rats. this is indisputible, try to understand if you're a contentious person. they will grow in anything organic they can get. sometimes it's not worth it. just don't.
i've smoked weed grown in: cowshit, horse shit, chicken shit, bat shit, dog shit, human shit. i've also worked on a pig rescue so i know the smell of pig shit. any competent human can tell the difference in smell between all these kinds of shit. anyone who has ever been in the country can smell the difference, i hope you can at least.
it is disgusting to me when someone grows with crap from a large animal. you need to compost manure, grow something with it, then use that as compost.
i remember these two fools handed me a joint that was dripping with horse rectum oil. how can you enjoy the high when you have to spend half an hour gagging.
so, from this, understand. whatever is in your soil, you can taste. dude throws his dog plops on his plant, you can taste it. hash from outdoor grow in cow manure, you can taste it, even as hash, for sure.
people are accustomed to the taste of soilless mediums and hydro. fair enough. it's better than crap. but like you can taste when hydro growers use humic supplements, there are things you can grow in that are going to add something that may be pleasant. i don't need to hear any alleged purist claim that minimal is the best because it's the most weed and least other stuff. there are negative tasting supplements and there are positive tasting supplements.
i don't think there's a lot of data on this because so many growers are followers, and others don't like to share their secrets or waste their breath talking to followers or competing with all the self proclaimed legends. but if there's one good thing that comes out of smoking weed that people grew in their own actual shit, it's the awareness that medium is not some vague area. it is always exactly specific, it is exactly what it is.
you can taste every-thing. it's really true.
i don't spend much money but parcelling up the natural world to sell as growing medium seems like it's been stretched real thin for decades now. if you can find something you like to grow in, you're fortunate, make sure you got enough of it, it will probably be different in the future.
2c
Douglas.Curtis
Autistic Diplomat in Training
Did you use it? Well, then it's in there! lol You're quite correct @waveguide .
Sounds like you missed rabbit though, which I've personally found to be the best shit so far with terpene production and complexity.
Sounds like you missed rabbit though, which I've personally found to be the best shit so far with terpene production and complexity.
Mainliner
Active member
I have already done both.
In living soil and hydro (high fertilization on COCO).
From the quality point of view, there is no difference, I think.
Hydro and living soil have always been smooth in the smoke and have burned well.
I think in the end it always comes back to the grower, whether he can handle the medium he works with properly?!
In living soil and hydro (high fertilization on COCO).
From the quality point of view, there is no difference, I think.
Hydro and living soil have always been smooth in the smoke and have burned well.
I think in the end it always comes back to the grower, whether he can handle the medium he works with properly?!
X15
Well-known member
i Think @Mainliner hit it on the head. A good grower will simply understand that there’s reasons for what they do, and they know why… as they understand how the plant wants to be,. the goal is to let the plant express itself, to let it show us what they are capable of. A good grower knows how to achieve those things using the tools they are comfortable with. It’s about managing their stress, not telling them who to be. Egos aside I love all types of methods as long as it’s safe! The enjoyment i get from being able to appreciate safe Good intention herb from someone who grew it in a style I’d not use makes for some great times!
Hiddenjems
Well-known member
I’ve yet to see living soil work better than hydro. I’ve grown the same clone in the same room in my buddies homemade soil vs a 3x3 hydro tray with pebbles.
It didn’t even look like the same plant when finished. Even the smell was stronger from the hydro plants.
"organic"..."boutique"..."craft" cannabis and it still sucks balls compared to the sour the NY crews were growing with very basic hydro
first and foremost it's genetics, in some cases a particular plant might taste better done in organic soil, but even "wet dirt" and "earthy" flavors are due to genetics
the very best weed I've grown was in ffof with botanicare 3 part sample pack pro grow, pro bloom, and liquid karma, I didn't even know what calmag was at the time, my first 2 plants and my best 2 plants, legends ultimate indica and sams original hazeXskunk1
then I grew some mandala north indian afghan the same way and then in perlite only hempy with botanicare cns17 2 part still no calmag, in soil the heads rotted, in hempy it came out better with noticeably better potency, the strain didn't have any kind of noteworthy flavor, and then I ran a royal queen NL in the hempy
I now do hempy with hydroton and a bit of coco mixed with the hydroton in the upper section with Bill Farthing style nutrients/feeding, and while I haven't ran any of the same strains there are some differences I have noticed
in soil gg4 for example came out really good, but it did end up very..."full bodied" would be a way to describe it, very robust and flavorful smoke
the cns17 perlite only NL came out good, tangy almost peach like smell, a good "weed" flavor but nothing too breathtaking, very nice potency, but when sparking a bowl it produced a thicker more noticeable char, it would finish clean but during the burning there was a sort of "plastic" element to it
the chemdawg I grew most recently in the coco hydroton hempy came out what I would consider the best after my first 2 plants, very strong smells during growing and a nice flavor, what stood out to me the most though was that it was the "lightest" like it smoked light definitely not as "robust" as the soil gg4, great potency
I would consider the chemdawg a "cleaner" smoke compared to the soil gg4, and even a bit more potent
I think in hydro you need more than just a 2 part to get the better quality, and in soil it might seem like the quality is better at first, but to maintain it you might end up wasting time and money chasing the dragon so to speak
first and foremost it's genetics, in some cases a particular plant might taste better done in organic soil, but even "wet dirt" and "earthy" flavors are due to genetics
the very best weed I've grown was in ffof with botanicare 3 part sample pack pro grow, pro bloom, and liquid karma, I didn't even know what calmag was at the time, my first 2 plants and my best 2 plants, legends ultimate indica and sams original hazeXskunk1
then I grew some mandala north indian afghan the same way and then in perlite only hempy with botanicare cns17 2 part still no calmag, in soil the heads rotted, in hempy it came out better with noticeably better potency, the strain didn't have any kind of noteworthy flavor, and then I ran a royal queen NL in the hempy
I now do hempy with hydroton and a bit of coco mixed with the hydroton in the upper section with Bill Farthing style nutrients/feeding, and while I haven't ran any of the same strains there are some differences I have noticed
in soil gg4 for example came out really good, but it did end up very..."full bodied" would be a way to describe it, very robust and flavorful smoke
the cns17 perlite only NL came out good, tangy almost peach like smell, a good "weed" flavor but nothing too breathtaking, very nice potency, but when sparking a bowl it produced a thicker more noticeable char, it would finish clean but during the burning there was a sort of "plastic" element to it
the chemdawg I grew most recently in the coco hydroton hempy came out what I would consider the best after my first 2 plants, very strong smells during growing and a nice flavor, what stood out to me the most though was that it was the "lightest" like it smoked light definitely not as "robust" as the soil gg4, great potency
I would consider the chemdawg a "cleaner" smoke compared to the soil gg4, and even a bit more potent
I think in hydro you need more than just a 2 part to get the better quality, and in soil it might seem like the quality is better at first, but to maintain it you might end up wasting time and money chasing the dragon so to speak
in the forms of hydroponics where the roots are mostly in a medium, it is the physical and mechanical properties of the media that matter.
not the substance itself.
as long as the medium is not toxic or radically affects ph.
turface is a superb media that is made from mined clay and then kiln-fired to turn it into a permanent ceramic.
it can be re-used infinitely.
the problem with it is that it has too fine of an overall particle size distribution and straight out of the bag has an air-filled porosity (AFP) of about 20-22%.
this is fine for growing houseplants in hand-watered containers because it holds its own weight in water.
it has a bulk density of about 35 lbs per cu ft.
cannabis likes a high oxygen root zone so to use turface for cannabis it should be seived over a regular aluminum window screen.
you will lose about 30% this way but it only has to be done once. it increases the AFP to about 30%.
it is also sterile having come from a high temp kiln. cec of about 30-32 meq/l
pumice is a great stand-alone medium for hydro. it is all over the west coast dirt cheap. i filled a pick-up bed with it for 40 bucks.
it will be filthy and bug-ridden as it is mined and stored outdoors.
it will be full of its own fines and mud, asst debris.
it has to be washed well with pressure, on a sloped concrete pad is the best.
always perform an AFP test on any new medium. 30% is the sweet spot.
about the same cec as turface.
i have grown a bunch of plants in coco coir, some great, some not so great.
the initial cec tie-up that occurs can be alleviated by a bath in some say cal-mag, but i like an ec4 jack's solution for 3 days. no rinse, just lift it out wet and use it.
for whatever reason, you will see fungus gnats using coir. cec up to 70 meq/l
lately, for about a year now, i've been using perlite as the main component. the main problem with perlite is that it has virtually no cec.
this is easily corrected by adding worm castings and diatomaceous earth. both have significant cec's.
i'm using a chunky type with particle sizes between 1/8-3/8". pretty open so air flows easily.
you only want to use the "floaters". i take one of those 5' diameter plastic pools and throw about 2 cu ft in at a time. stir it around, turning it over a few times, let the fine particles drop to the bottom, and scoop the good stuff off the top with a swimming pool net.
i load the container with the clean perlite first, almost to the top. in a 6-gal container, i will use about a quart of worm casting and a cup of DE.
i work the worm castings into the top half with gloved claw fingers first and then the DE about 1/4 way down from the top.
this is running in a closed loop recirculating hydro system. initially, i was worried about some type of bacterial bloom but nothing like that has happened.
the worm casting, DE combo greatly increases water-holding potential at the top of the pot.
worm castings innoculate beneficial bacteria and other organisms and DE is a form of plant-available silicate.
not the substance itself.
as long as the medium is not toxic or radically affects ph.
turface is a superb media that is made from mined clay and then kiln-fired to turn it into a permanent ceramic.
it can be re-used infinitely.
the problem with it is that it has too fine of an overall particle size distribution and straight out of the bag has an air-filled porosity (AFP) of about 20-22%.
this is fine for growing houseplants in hand-watered containers because it holds its own weight in water.
it has a bulk density of about 35 lbs per cu ft.
cannabis likes a high oxygen root zone so to use turface for cannabis it should be seived over a regular aluminum window screen.
you will lose about 30% this way but it only has to be done once. it increases the AFP to about 30%.
it is also sterile having come from a high temp kiln. cec of about 30-32 meq/l
pumice is a great stand-alone medium for hydro. it is all over the west coast dirt cheap. i filled a pick-up bed with it for 40 bucks.
it will be filthy and bug-ridden as it is mined and stored outdoors.
it will be full of its own fines and mud, asst debris.
it has to be washed well with pressure, on a sloped concrete pad is the best.
always perform an AFP test on any new medium. 30% is the sweet spot.
about the same cec as turface.
i have grown a bunch of plants in coco coir, some great, some not so great.
the initial cec tie-up that occurs can be alleviated by a bath in some say cal-mag, but i like an ec4 jack's solution for 3 days. no rinse, just lift it out wet and use it.
for whatever reason, you will see fungus gnats using coir. cec up to 70 meq/l
lately, for about a year now, i've been using perlite as the main component. the main problem with perlite is that it has virtually no cec.
this is easily corrected by adding worm castings and diatomaceous earth. both have significant cec's.
i'm using a chunky type with particle sizes between 1/8-3/8". pretty open so air flows easily.
you only want to use the "floaters". i take one of those 5' diameter plastic pools and throw about 2 cu ft in at a time. stir it around, turning it over a few times, let the fine particles drop to the bottom, and scoop the good stuff off the top with a swimming pool net.
i load the container with the clean perlite first, almost to the top. in a 6-gal container, i will use about a quart of worm casting and a cup of DE.
i work the worm castings into the top half with gloved claw fingers first and then the DE about 1/4 way down from the top.
this is running in a closed loop recirculating hydro system. initially, i was worried about some type of bacterial bloom but nothing like that has happened.
the worm casting, DE combo greatly increases water-holding potential at the top of the pot.
worm castings innoculate beneficial bacteria and other organisms and DE is a form of plant-available silicate.
