My Stupid Grow Diary Filled with Stupid Thoughts

[DontStopBelievn]

Finishing off my cab. Things are mostly light proof. There are some small pinholes in the intake ducts that i';m trying to minimize using spray paint, but I don't anticipate this being a serious issue. There is a tiny amount of light visible from the outside when it's completely dark in the room. The room the cab is in has nowhere near the light intensity as the inside of the cab does, so any light that may come through wouldn't be any brighter than a full moon.

I did hit a snag over the past 24 hours, though. I went from the KISS method of only using 7.5g/gallon of GH MaxiBloom to using MaxiGrow. Ordinarily this wouldn't be an issue. But I also made the mistake of following GH's feeding guidelines. Instead of doing 7.5g/gallon of MaxiGrow (like you would do for KISS with MaxiBloom), I did 4.5g/gallon. I also lowballed 2mL/gallon of CalMag, regualr dosage of 2mL/gallon of Hydroguard.

MaxiBloom and MaxiGrow both tout pH buffering as a feature of their nutrients. My tap runs at 6.8 to 7.1 consistently. PPM is usually around 100, ranging from a 5 years history of 82-118ppm, median of 103 ppm.

24 hours after res change, I check my plant. Dead leaf tips, brown splotches on medium-tier and few on top-tier leaves. Roots are looking clumped and a very mild brown tint. I do ppm and pH test. PPM is good, EC of 1.7, temp is a little high but my reservoir always runs warm and I've never had problems before (hail Hyrdoguard!). I check the pH and i was so shocked I had to do it 3 times, getting a fresh sample each time. I was reading 6.6 pH on each sample. I immediately grabbed the MaxiGrow, added 16g on the scale (my res runs 8 gallons max) and tossed it on, along with another 16mL of CaMg to match Botanicare's recommended levels. I wait an hour and drop to 6.3pH on two tests of 2 samples (4 tests total) with calibration of 7pH and 4pH between each one. I added another 16g of MaxiGrow because YOLO and tested one hour later. 2 tests on 2 samples with calibration of 7pH and 4pH between each test , 6.1 pH on each sample.

Now we wait 12 hours to see how roots respond. The ppm is high, very high, right around 2.8 EC. This can be easily corrected by drawing 1gallon of water out, adding in 1 gallon of tap water.

Whatever the buffer agents are in MaxiGrow/Bloom, they apparently need a concentration of around 5g to 7g to get that pH to the 5.9-6.1 sweet spot. I have had no problems before using 5g/gallon of MaxBloom. It might also be a good idea to stir/shake the MaxiGrow bag to ensure a better distribution of nutrients, buffer agents.

 

[Rider420]

Dude you need to do some acid! PH down will fix your issue without overfeeding your plants.

 

[DontStopBelievn]

Here's some shitty pics taken at various relatively recent times.

 

[DontStopBelievn]

Dude you need to do some acid! PH down will fix your issue without overfeeding your plants.

Yeah. I got by using 7.5g of MaxiBloom for several grows and everything was fine. Changing things up introduced new issues.
I got a gallon of GH pH Down coming in tomorrow.
I would rather risk 24 hours of high EC and correct pH than a lockout pH and correct EC.
Live and learn.

 

[DontStopBelievn]

I should add that this banana fast sprout is BUSHY. Nodes are so compact that it's like I'm getting 4 nodes every half inch. This strain would be PERFECT for doing Sea of Green. ScroG, maybe not so much? It's stunning how low-profile and thick this strain pheno is. Roots seem to have a hard time keeping up with how much it blooms when trimmed.

My light is lifted to 24" off of canopy and I reduced to ~80% intensity. I also moved the exhaust onto a timer of 1:1 off/on cycle. My cab is 2'x2'x7'8" and the AC Infinity S4 at 1/8 speed is maybe a bit much, as insane as that sounds. My cab has roughly 31' of cubic space, exhausting 25.625cfm.

A lot of old cfm exchange guidelines are built around exhausting heat from HID fixtures (150HPS heat compared to my LED is a different world), not actual plant's needs. I have a ton of circulation, so I think cutting back on exhaust would probably be a good idea.

I have tons of seeds as backup, including more banana fast, so I'm fine if everything dies or comes out less than optimal. I'm basically running some experiments, taking notes, seeing what works best for my situation.

 

[tobedetermined]

Your roots certainly look healthy and the plant looks like it is doing well. As above, get the pH riding below 6 to dial everything in. Btw . . . what's your water temp?

 

[iTarzan]

This thread is stupid. LOL! I'm in. As tobedetermined pointed out... those roots look very healthy.

Carry on!

 

[DontStopBelievn]

Your roots certainly look healthy and the plant looks like it is doing well. As above, get the pH riding below 6 to dial everything in. Btw . . . what's your water temp?

That pic is when things were rocking and rolling. I'll update later today with some more pics. You can see notable leaf damage from a multitude of nutrients being locked out and the difference in roots is immediately recognizable. Thankfully, problems have not progressed and the plant is in a holding pattern for recovery. Unthankfully, my order of GH pH down got delayed, so now I need to take a 1 hour drive to a store that has pH down. I'm not beholden to GH or anything, it's just that their products are prevalent and they're reputable.

My temps run alongside my thermostat, but I ran as hot as a median of 82F without issues. I think this comes down to 3 factors: I use Hydroguard to protect against pathogens, I have high levels of water circulation and oxygenation using a powerhead with oxygen intake tube, I do res changes every 2 weeks or if I just feel like it.

 

[DontStopBelievn]

This thread is stupid. LOL! I'm in. As tobedetermined pointed out... those roots look very healthy.

Carry on!

IIRC, it was a wise prophet that once said: Carry on , my wayward son. There'll be peace when you are done. Lay your weary head to rest. Don't you cry no more.

 

[tobedetermined]

so now I need to take a 1 hour drive to a store that has pH down.

White vinegar - ascetic acid - works in a pinch but I found that it didn't hold the pH down for long.

 

[iTarzan]

You can use aquarium ph down at the pet store. Is there one closer by than the grow shop?

 

[DontStopBelievn]

So, forum update, yeah? Seems really snappy and responsive so far. I can't wait to see what they can do with phase 3 updates adding new features!

Anyways, here are root pics from about 24-48 hours of pH being way too high.
Look at these nasty, matted roots! Thankfully, they weren't totally dead, just withering. No slime, but they were soft and limp rather than firm and springy.


24 hours after pH corrected to 5.9, you can see the roots are rebounding.


After 48 hours, vigorous growth of brilliant, healthy roots!


I'll get some pics of the plant uploaded later today. I trimmed off some of the damaged leaves and new growth has been very healthy.

You can use aquarium ph down at the pet store. Is there one closer by than the grow shop?

There is, but it's like $15 for 6 oz and f that noise. I got pH dialed in by dumping in more MaxiGrow, but that skyrocketed my EC to over 3. That has its own issues, but it is much more manageable than pH being so high that the plant can't even uptake nutrients.

Instead of changing the reservoir, I pulled out about 2.5 gallons and replaced it with tap water plus hyrdoguard, CaMg and adjusted to 5.9 pH. It's been right around 6.0 and 6.1 since.

 

[med4u]

Howdy dsb..
Just stumbled onto your thread...looks like your may have your problem under control...as you see you will never get stable readings for ph or ec as the roots rot...
I like to run sterile ebb n flo...to maintain
A clean worry free system keep res temps below 70f....64 is idea to maximize
Oxygenation and keep pathogens at bay
Also a bleach mix added at res change
I use Clorox unscented bleach....
The formula is 100mil of bleach added to
1 gal of tapwater....then use this mix at
5mil per gal to your res
After many side by side test Dyna-Gro has proven superior for hydro growing with stable numbers and squeaky clean healthy roots
I've had many years of clean trouble free
growing in hydro this way

Good luck

 

[DontStopBelievn]

How it went, how it's going.

View media item 18122601View media item 18122624

This is when pH went up to 6.6 pH. I get a bit of drift with my meter, so it could have been 6.7 pH. I believe this was nute lockout.
View media item 18122627View media item 18122628View media item 18122629

Recovery begins.
View media item 18122632View media item 18122636View media item 18122642View media item 18122646

 

[DontStopBelievn]

Howdy dsb..
Just stumbled onto your thread...looks like your may have your problem under control...as you see you will never get stable readings for ph or ec as the roots root...
I like to run sterile ebb n flo...to maintain
A clean worry free system keep res temps below 70f....64 is idea to maximize
Oxygenation and keep pathogens at bay
Also a bleach mix added at res change
I use Clorox unscented bleach....
The formula is 100mil of bleach added to
1 gal of tapwater....then use this mix at
5mil per gal to your res
After many side by side test Dyna-Gro has proven superior for hydro growing with stable numbers and squeaky clean healthy roots
I've had many years of clean trouble free
growing in hydro this way

Good luck

I change the reservoir every 2 weeks. Extra water gets dumped onto garden outside, house plants, etc. Scrub down the reservoir with soapy hot water, rinse, then a quick rinse with StarSan. I've had no problems before with reservoir temps in the mid to upper 80's. The powerhead provides tons of oxygenation, circulation and hydroguard helps prevent bacterial growth.

I’ve homebrewed beer a bunch and the level of sanitation is anywhere from less to the same.

 

[med4u]

Growing in hydroponics is a more precise
Form....you should strive to create the most optimal conditions...
Knowing these optimal conditions is key
For instance the res temp is as critical as
Ec and ph levels if not more so
As temps climb dissolved oxygen molecules will dissipate till they reach into the 80f range then they drop dramatically to critical levels of single digits
Aeration is fine but if the water cannot hold the dissolved oxygen,which is what your plants uptake thru the roots,they will begin to produce ethylene hormones that
Are responsible for killing off the plants
Vegetation to try and save the plant itself
Hence dead and dying vegetation and roots....this problem is two fold because
Pythium and other nasty spores thrive in the warmer temps hence root slim and eventual death or the plant not taking up
The full range of nutes which will also show in vegitation...
Calcium def,nitrigen def etc
Pathogens cannot live in temps below 70f
While temps in the 50f will contain more dissolved oxygen the plants will stunt as it is to cool....
That being said your water is your medium like soil for soil growers medium
Temps should be maintained at approx 15 degrees cooler than your ambient air temp with a few exception such as running in sealed room with co2..
Then the need for a res chiller presents itself
The amount of dissolved oxygen in water
Temps are maximized at 64f to 68f without breaking the 70f+ zone of spore
Growth
With this in mind and a regiment of the bleach mix described....the need to change out the res or to scrub it will become less needed
Your plants will thrive without dying vegitation or slimy roots....
Time growing vs wrestling with sick plants will only enhance plant vigor
And your enjoyment of growing hydroponically
Hope this helps you have a smart grow diary with smart ideas

Simply Hydroponics – Nutrient Temp https://www.simplyhydro.com/nutrient_temp/

 

[DontStopBelievn]

I've fixed everything with adjusting pH and maintaining protocol. You can see proof with pictures. The only change I made was going from KISS MaxiBloom-only to a MaxiGrow/Bloom cycle.

I'm not dumping bleach into my reservoir. My roots shined white at 87F during peak summer last year on KISS and this whole, "bad oxygen intake at high temps," stuff might apply on fringe cases, but I have a lot of flow and have been fine. Reservoir is 8 gallons with a high-rated powerhead. There is a degree of give and take as roots consume reservoir mass, declining water volume, but I've never had a problem with high reservoir temps. Even getting near 90's for a few weeks on end.

For Great Lakes Maine water testing, difference in 30C and 27C is 1.1 SatDO, from 8.7 to 7.6 - https://lakestewardsofmaine.org/wp-...ved-Oxygen-Concentration-Saturation-Table.pdf

I'm pretty sure I'm okay with an outsized powerhead in 8 gallons. And if I run into issues, I don't think it's going to be oxygenation and circulation. But something to consider down the road.

 

[med4u]

I'll say no more except...your plants do not look healthy and you have lost time
Of veg you will not get back.....
I digress,but will be watching


If you like I will remove my post from your thread....dont want to clog your
Grow journal up

Peace out

 

[.............]

 

[med4u]

View attachment 18123267

Lol....that thread brings back memories
from the troll it up days..circa 2011?

Fyi if you use city tapwater you have bleach(sodium hypoclorite) in your res
Along with chloramine which is not good for your plants but will gas off when exposed to air so let it sit out overnight if possible