RECENT interesting findings

[djonkoman]

^that.
no crispr involved in making triploids. however to make the tetraploid you do need a chemical which can disrupt the normal meiosis, in such a way that you get unreduced gametes (sperm/eggs which have 2 copies of everything, instead of the usual single). but this is also not gmo, you are not directly altering the dna, you're just disrupting the normal cell dividion a bit so you get 1 cell where you'd normally get 2 cells out of it.

but gmo vs traditional breeding is also a bit of a grey area, more legal nitpicking than logic imo.
for example, if you know you can make a certain modification that has a benefit. if you do this modification with crispr, you now have a gmo plant, and you have to jump through all kinds of hoops and spend lots of money to get it approved.

but, you could achieve the same modification using EMS (chemical used for mutagenesis), which induces random mutations instead of targeted like crispr, and does not fall under gmo laws.
you can then use the TILLING method to find a plant with a random mutation in the desired location.
this costs way more space than crispr since you'd need to generate lots of mutants to find the one you want (often in the neighbourhood of 50000-100000 plants), but in the end the result is pretty much the same, except one plant falls under gmo laws, while the other plant doesn't.

 

[trichrider]

can you elaborate on the "gmo laws"? with regards to cannabis production?
i had not heard of that before. thnx

 

[djonkoman]

I may have been a bit hasty with that gmo laws stuff actually, speaking from a european perspective, so I'm not sure how the gmo approval process in US/canada works. I do know a lot more is possible with gmo in america, but I think still only a few gmo varieties in a limited number of crops are aproved (like roundup-ready corn or bt cotton), so I reckon it's still a difficult/expensive process.

the mutagenesis thing is especially a workaround here in europe due to a specific exception in the law. when the gmo law was introduced mutagenesis breeding was already widely aplied (especially in decorative flowers), so there is an exemption for mutagenesis as an established practice.
so I'm not really sure whether other countries consider mutagenesis GMO or not.

but, thing is, the distinction traditional breeding and gmo is a bit meaningless sometimes. there is a difference, but it's a bit more a gradient than a hard line. and especially with crispr you could do certain things which could happen naturally too, just faster/easier, like knocking out 1 specific gene. so then the process is different, but the end result is indistinguishable.

 

[trichrider]

i found no instance of gmo pot in a quick search on gooooogle.
there are laws for food production though.

 

[Three Berries]

I was just wondering about this the other day if there was any GMO cannabis. It think it would lead to some fantastic stuff.

Some of the corn around here does fantastic in drought. It's hard to believe. As long as they have enough moisture for the first month they can go nearly the rest of the season with little rain. Assuming the usual high humidity Midwest conditions

 

[trichrider]

Search GMO Answers

1 Result

Question
Q: What is GMO weed? Now that you are patenting it, are you fighting for its legal ...

A: We don’t know of any legitimate GM Marijuana in development or in existence. Any rumored involvement by CBI or seed companies is “urban legend.” ...
Answered by Cathleen Enright
A: Cannabis has definitely been genetically modified for the underground and “medical” markets, but not using the modern methods that get called “GMO”. The modification of the genetics of marijuana achieved using a combination of traditional breeding techniques and clumsy, “old-school” techniques like chemical mutagenesis and induced polyploidy. In other words, various enterprising people used toxic chemicals to cause mutations or used Colchicine to induce the plants to double the number of chromosomes in every cell. Some of these plants grew better and/or made more THC. That is why modern mariju ...
Answered by Steve Savage

 

[djonkoman]

I was just wondering about this the other day if there was any GMO cannabis. It think it would lead to some fantastic stuff.

Some of the corn around here does fantastic in drought. It's hard to believe. As long as they have enough moisture for the first month they can go nearly the rest of the season with little rain. Assuming the usual high humidity Midwest conditions

I do think some exciting stuff could be done, but I think it's also good to also be realistic, gmo is no magic.
and cannabis has already a lot of natural variation around, so in a lot of cases it would probably be easier/cheaper to look for something that already exists than to use gmo methods. especially quantitative (polygenic) traits. the easiest way to apply gmo methods is to deactivate a gene, adding stuff is possible too, but more complex (it needs to fit in. for example you could put a thc-synthase in a random vegetable plant, but without the availability of the CBGa precursor no thc can be produced).
but it could be pretty usefull for creating durable resistances against certain pathogens for example, and the cannabinoid pathway would also be something that could be tweaked with.

maize also has an inherent advantage in warm dry weather because it's a c4-plant.
but surviving in drought would be something I'd first try to tackle with traditional breeding. start off with a landrace from a dry area (and where the plants are actually grown with little water too), and subject them to artificial droughts to select the more drought tolerant.
one good trait to score is recovery after a drought period, because the rate at which leaves die permanently varies between plants. for a plant in the wild it can be a survival mechanism to drop leaves when there's a drought, but to achieve a good yield you don't want the plant to suicide it's leaves, you want it to be able to recover fast after the drought is over.

btw, I just remembered something. relating to the post above about gmo/mutagenesis being done in cannabis.
I think I've read that in the development of finola they used mutagenesis breeding, which was used to find plants with a more favourable content of stuff in the seeds (not sure what it was exactly, I think it had something to do with some specific fatty acids in the seeds? ).

 

[Three Berries]

I do think some exciting stuff could be done, but I think it's also good to also be realistic, gmo is no magic.
and cannabis has already a lot of natural variation around, so in a lot of cases it would probably be easier/cheaper to look for something that already exists than to use gmo methods. especially quantitative (polygenic) traits. the easiest way to apply gmo methods is to deactivate a gene, adding stuff is possible too, but more complex (it needs to fit in. for example you could put a thc-synthase in a random vegetable plant, but without the availability of the CBGa precursor no thc can be produced).
but it could be pretty usefull for creating durable resistances against certain pathogens for example, and the cannabinoid pathway would also be something that could be tweaked with.

maize also has an inherent advantage in warm dry weather because it's a c4-plant.
but surviving in drought would be something I'd first try to tackle with traditional breeding. start off with a landrace from a dry area (and where the plants are actually grown with little water too), and subject them to artificial droughts to select the more drought tolerant.
one good trait to score is recovery after a drought period, because the rate at which leaves die permanently varies between plants. for a plant in the wild it can be a survival mechanism to drop leaves when there's a drought, but to achieve a good yield you don't want the plant to suicide it's leaves, you want it to be able to recover fast after the drought is over.

btw, I just remembered something. relating to the post above about gmo/mutagenesis being done in cannabis.
I think I've read that in the development of finola they used mutagenesis breeding, which was used to find plants with a more favourable content of stuff in the seeds (not sure what it was exactly, I think it had something to do with some specific fatty acids in the seeds? ).

Well before GMO, corn was already the most manually genetically modified plant from centuries of cross breeding. But with real GMO you can splice and dice the genes to get a much better plant.

 

[ion]

yo three berries senior membr....are you serious with this shit?

I was just wondering about this the other day if there was any GMO cannabis. It think it would lead to some fantastic stuff.

Well before GMO, corn was already the most manually genetically modified plant from centuries of cross breeding. But with real GMO you can splice and dice the genes to get a much better plant.



txxxxxxxx

 

[Three Berries]

yo three berries senior membr....are you serious with this shit?

I was just wondering about this the other day if there was any GMO cannabis. It think it would lead to some fantastic stuff.

Well before GMO, corn was already the most manually genetically modified plant from centuries of cross breeding. But with real GMO you can splice and dice the genes to get a much better plant.



txxxxxxxx

Well of course. What would you like your cannabis plant to do or not do?

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

BTW I have a gram of THCP and it is much stronger than THC.
-SamS

 

[@hempy]

People alwyas bit scare of new things,thats how we are programmed,I think that its just CRISPR tehnology...in article is contradiction.

...they'll be able to introduce new seedless, triploid-based strains and cultivars through traditional breeding that should bring cannabis production to a whole new level very soon,"


How can you do tradicional breeding on plant that cant take polen ?

Probably they will sterilese plant(cultivar) with crispr than from that plant they will take cuttings and sell them...Thats what I think how it works.

You dont use traditional breeding here take a look at how its really done Breeder Steve tells all.


Breeder Steve - Breeding for Female Sterility

 

[Piff_cat]

the big plus i see for sterility is induced terpenes especially oxygenated monoterpene . without having to worry about stress hermies there are alot more methods applying biotic pressure and inducing change. frankincense is made by a mechanical injury to a tree and the reaction, called oleoresin dries on the outside after being induced by the injury. there are nematodes battled by pine trees with carene which shows up alot in haze but also korean fiber hemp. the limitations put forward by sinsemilla need to be investigated. we still dont kno the difference chemically between different levels of fertilization. if we can determine things like messenger hormones from males which cause females not to hermy when present or test the whole plant only fertilize one branch, cant make good sense of whats going on without doing this

 

[GrowingHigher]

In the US, CRISPR isn't considered GM by regulatory authorities since it doesn't introduce DNA from another organism. So people using CRISPR can say 'non-GMO.' It's a strange stance to take.

 

[numberguy]

BTW I have a gram of THCP and it is much stronger than THC.
-SamS

And? stronger in what way? quicker onset? longer lasting? less harsh? more expanding? more heavy less heavy? couchlock? mind expanding? trippy? thought provoking? your smoke or use report leaves much to the imagination.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

It reminds me of 11-Hydroxy-THC, that is the metabolite of THC when eaten and the effects are slightly stronger than THC as well as different, large doses can give people the staggers like you were drunk, with THCP I also had trouble walking, slower onset, longer lasting, not as clear and up and speedy as I like, but I also do not prefer pure THC, I like THC with the terpenes I love. Maybe THCP with those same terpenes I love would make the high more as I like, but I have not tried THCP with added terpenes, I did try THCP with some high terpene Rosin but the THCP was so strong the effects were dominated by that, as well as slower in onset, which is not what I prefer, I prefer clear as a bell and strong as hell with a taste and smell I love.

-SamS

 

[numberguy]

It reminds me of 11-Hydroxy-THC, that is the metabolite of THC when eaten and the effects are slightly stronger than THC as well as different, large doses can give people the staggers like you were drunk, with THCP I also had trouble walking, slower onset, longer lasting, not as clear and up and speedy as I like, but I also do not prefer pure THC, I like THC with the terpenes I love. Maybe THCP with those same terpenes I love would make the high more as I like, but I have not tried THCP with added terpenes, I did try THCP with some high terpene Rosin but the THCP was so strong the effects were dominated by that, as well as slower in onset, which is not what I prefer, I prefer clear as a bell and strong as hell with a taste and smell I love.

-SamS

Thanks, did you happen to try it with just THC? I have seen the stagger effect and high stepping they may be what some call floating effect also. To most clear as a bell comes off as weak or no effect, too clear and it actually feels sobering or like clearing brain fog. I like has not been a factor till recently always for others, taste and smell are not usually a consideration.

 

[FellaAndrene]

It reminds me of 11-Hydroxy-THC, that is the metabolite of THC when eaten and the effects are slightly stronger than THC as well as different, large doses can give people the staggers like you were drunk, with THCP I also had trouble walking, slower onset, longer lasting, not as clear and up and speedy as I like, but I also do not prefer pure THC, I like THC with the terpenes I love.

What do you currently believe is behind the more speedier effects people associate with the varieties derived from tropical populations e.g. Haze?

Terpinolene seems like an effective biomarker in that regard: according to some studies people tend to perceive terpinolene-heavy cannabis as more "energetic" - but I suspect that it's really something else which comes along with it.

 

[chilliwilli]

Transfer of cannabinoids into the milk of dairy cows fed with industrial hemp could lead to Δ9-THC exposure that exceeds acute reference dose

So if the cow eats enough good weed the milk would make u high

 

[Three Berries]

I'm keeping my GDP at 65f-75 and it's sticky icky finger lickin good. Cut off the main colas last week and am seeing how far the rest goes.