Fan leaves folding inwards

[ilovesluts420]

Running gavita 1700e’s. 5 gallon coco. Grape pie. The beginning of week 2 of flower. The plants overall look very good but I noticed some of the fan leaves on some of the plants are folding inwards. Does anybody know why this is happening?

 

[ilovesluts420]

I am on the floraflex full tilt schedule btw so right now the plants are getting only getting the two part B1 and B2

 

[f-e]

Light tops. Spotting below. Leaf deformity. It's all a calcium. Coco with LED tends to need more, and are you just using A&B of a wide fertilisation program? I don't know the Flex, but it doesn't sound right. It's not even A&B.. so I would have another look at that


Edit: Downward cupping is usually too much N P or K. It's not N, and I'm unsure about P. K can push Ca out though. Coco is stacked with it. Is the flex coco specific eg: low K

 

[ilovesluts420]

Light tops. Spotting below. Leaf deformity. It's all a calcium. Coco with LED tends to need more, and are you just using A&B of a wide fertilisation program? I don't know the Flex, but it doesn't sound right. It's not even A&B.. so I would have another look at that

The spotting below was from a foliage spray I used a week ago. It burned some of the leaves. I must’ve made the solution improperly? The floraflex two part I heard is very good to use for LEDs. The schedule even says not to use cal mag bc the b1 and b2 has everything you’ll need

 

[ilovesluts420]

Light tops. Spotting below. Leaf deformity. It's all a calcium. Coco with LED tends to need more, and are you just using A&B of a wide fertilisation program? I don't know the Flex, but it doesn't sound right. It's not even A&B.. so I would have another look at that


Edit: Downward cupping is usually too much N P or K. It's not N, and I'm unsure about P. K can push Ca out though. Coco is stacked with it. Is the flex coco specific eg: low K

I am not using only A and B. It’s a two part.

 

[ilovesluts420]

The schedule I am using

 

[ilovesluts420]

Light tops. Spotting below. Leaf deformity. It's all a calcium. Coco with LED tends to need more, and are you just using A&B of a wide fertilisation program? I don't know the Flex, but it doesn't sound right. It's not even A&B.. so I would have another look at that


Edit: Downward cupping is usually too much N P or K. It's not N, and I'm unsure about P. K can push Ca out though. Coco is stacked with it. Is the flex coco specific eg: low K

So if they’re low on K…what can I add to supplement them?

 

[f-e]

Interesting. I also looked at a feed chart https://floraflex.com/media/pdf/Full...ort_NoMods.pdf
The difference is, my chart says get the EC around 0.3 with calmag, then add 3g of A&B. Your chart says 5g
You actually want low K feeds for coco, as the coco provides it. Using a multi-substrate feed and switching to bloom the day you initiate 12/12 is likely to cause a K overload.

I think I nailed it. This is too high a K feed for coco, used too early, and with no calmag, which for coco is almost a must have. I bet in soil you could follow the no calmag chart, but in coco it's a lot more likely to bring about problems. Both from the lack of calmag, and the 66% extra K you are adding. From day one, just to compound things further.

It just doesn't look right at all.

Hows your tap? Got RO?

 

[ilovesluts420]

Interesting. I also looked at a feed chart https://floraflex.com/media/pdf/Full...ort_NoMods.pdf
The difference is, my chart says get the EC around 0.3 with calmag, then add 3g of A&B. Your chart says 5g
You actually want low K feeds for coco, as the coco provides it. Using a multi-substrate feed and switching to bloom the day you initiate 12/12 is likely to cause a K overload.

I think I nailed it. This is too high a K feed for coco, used too early, and with no calmag, which for coco is almost a must have. I bet in soil you could follow the no calmag chart, but in coco it's a lot more likely to bring about problems. Both from the lack of calmag, and the 66% extra K you are adding. From day one, just to compound things further.

It just doesn't look right at all.

Hows your tap? Got RO?

Yes I am using RO. So do you suggest I start adding cal mag?

 

[ilovesluts420]

Interesting. I also looked at a feed chart https://floraflex.com/media/pdf/Full...ort_NoMods.pdf
The difference is, my chart says get the EC around 0.3 with calmag, then add 3g of A&B. Your chart says 5g
You actually want low K feeds for coco, as the coco provides it. Using a multi-substrate feed and switching to bloom the day you initiate 12/12 is likely to cause a K overload.

I think I nailed it. This is too high a K feed for coco, used too early, and with no calmag, which for coco is almost a must have. I bet in soil you could follow the no calmag chart, but in coco it's a lot more likely to bring about problems. Both from the lack of calmag, and the 66% extra K you are adding. From day one, just to compound things further.

It just doesn't look right at all.

Hows your tap? Got RO?

So tmrw I’m starting week 2 so the b1 and b2 go down to 4.5g. If I added cal mag, do you think that would fix the problem? Thanks for your help btw I really appreciate it.

 

[f-e]

I don't think you have any choice. Most brands will give you that 0.3 with about 1ml/L but as you are playing catch-up, you might want to go 2ml for a bit. The N provided by the calmag won't hurt at this stage, even at 2ml/L as you switched to bloom anyway. You probably need it, once using 3g

 

[f-e]

4.5g is 50% too much. It says 3g of each.

Edit: They are aiming for ec2.1 which sounds excessive to me. It's a starting point though.

 

[ilovesluts420]

I don't think you have any choice. Most brands will give you that 0.3 with about 1ml/L but as you are playing catch-up, you might want to go 2ml for a bit. The N provided by the calmag won't hurt at this stage, even at 2ml/L as you switched to bloom anyway. You probably need it, once using 3g

Awesome thanks so much. You are very knowledgeable. You’re like the cannayoda. Appreciate you taking the time to help.

 

[ilovesluts420]

4.5g is 50% too much. It says 3g of each.

Attached is the schedule I’ve been following. But I have noticed two different full tilt schedules. Should I follow the lesser of the two?

 

[ilovesluts420]

4.5g is 50% too much. It says 3g of each.

Edit: They are aiming for ec2.1 which sounds excessive to me. It's a starting point though.

so there’s a full tilt schedule and a bulky b full tilt schedule which consists of a new supplement called bulky b. All the bulky b schedules says 4.5

 

[ilovesluts420]

4.5g is 50% too much. It says 3g of each.

Edit: They are aiming for ec2.1 which sounds excessive to me. It's a starting point though.

The bulky b schedule starting ec is 3.0 which I originally thought was really high as well. Sigh I don’t know what to do. What do you think will happen if I continue to follow this schedule? But I will start adding cal mag. Hopefully all will be well???

 

[f-e]

Do you have bulky B ?
Did you look at my link? It's for calmag use. You use calmag to about 0.3 then your B1&B2 (A&B) at 3g. Then a spray of what I'm guessing is humic each weeks for a few weeks, then after that stops, some other bulking agent like PK


Edit: If we look at canna coco feed, we see P and K are reduced when put beside their feeds for other substrates.
By using less of everything, you lower your N P K Ca and Mg. Then, using the calmag you raise the N Ca and Mg again. The net effect, is lower P and K.
We want less K because the coco provides it. We want less P as it accumulates, and should be balanced against K

 

[ilovesluts420]

Do you have bulky B ?
Did you look at my link? It's for calmag use. You use calmag to about 0.3 then your B1&B2 (A&B) at 3g. Then a spray of what I'm guessing is humic each weeks for a few weeks, then after that stops, some other bulking agent like PK

Yes I have bulky b. So considering that I’ve been following the bulky b/no cal mag schedule at 3.0 ec. What would you do to moving forward if you were me exactly?

 

[f-e]

Oh yes.. I had not seen the bulky B. Or is that P? I bet it is..
What they have done is drop the A&B 10% and switch it for this product.

I feel quite sure a chart exists that says RO to 0.3 using calmag, then 3g of A&B for a week. Then 2.7g of A&B plus 0.6g of Bulky. It would be nice to see that chart, but the pattern is there.

There is no way I would add the calmag on top of the 5g or 4.5g+Bulky. You will need to bring that A&B use down, to replace it with calmag. Like I outlined above.

 

[44:86N]

Interesting. I also looked at a feed chart https://floraflex.com/media/pdf/Full...ort_NoMods.pdf
The difference is, my chart says get the EC around 0.3 with calmag, then add 3g of A&B. Your chart says 5g
You actually want low K feeds for coco, as the coco provides it. Using a multi-substrate feed and switching to bloom the day you initiate 12/12 is likely to cause a K overload.

I think I nailed it. This is too high a K feed for coco, used too early, and with no calmag, which for coco is almost a must have. I bet in soil you could follow the no calmag chart, but in coco it's a lot more likely to bring about problems. Both from the lack of calmag, and the 66% extra K you are adding. From day one, just to compound things further.

It just doesn't look right at all.

Hows your tap? Got RO?

Very interesting. I did a quick poke around the internet and came up with these:

Fresher or younger coir tends to be lighter or redder in color. The physical properties of coir may vary depending upon its age and how it was processed and packaged. However, coir typically has a pH 5.8 to 6.9. Therefore, the addition of lime or ground limestone to coir is not required as is the case with sphagnum peat. The electrical conductivity of coir has been reported to range from 0.3 to 2.9 mmho/cm depending upon source. The primary ions contributing to the electrical conductivity of coir are of K[SUP]+[/SUP], Na[SUP]+[/SUP] and Cl[SUP]-[/SUP] and these ions are easily leached. The electrical conductivity is one of the most important quality aspects that producers and users of coir need to be aware. Many producers of coir will guarantee a product with a pH and electrical conductivity within a specific range.

Coir provides both nutrient-holding and watering-holding capacities to a substrate, and is therefore used in substrates for the same purposes as sphagnum peat. With a cation-exchange capacity of 39 to 60 meq/100g, coir does provide nutrient-holding capacity in the substrate, but its cation-exchange capacity is lower than that of a typical sphagnum peat. However, since most growers use a constant liquid fertilization program to provide for the nutritional needs of the crop (rather than relying on the substrate to retain nutrients for later use), the difference in the cation-exchange-capacity between coir and sphagnum peat rarely requires a change in the nutritional program when using coir-based substrates as compared to sphagnum peat-based substrates. Coir holds significant amounts of water and thus serves the primary function of holding water and/or nutrient solutions when used in the substrate. Typically coir will hold 73% to 80% of its volume in water which is slightly higher than a typical sphagnum peat. Coir readily absorbs water, and therefore, a wetting agent is not needed with coir as is the case with sphagnum peat. However, typical coir will have 9.5% to 12.5% air-filled pore space which is slightly lower than that of a typical sphagnum peat. Conversely, coir containing substrates will usually have a slightly higher water-holding capacity than equivalent sphagnum peat substrates

From Dr. Michael Evans, Univ. of AR., Fayetteville

And from good old wikipedia:

Coco peat is used as a soil conditioner. Due to low levels of nutrients in its composition, coco peat is usually not the sole component in the medium used to grow plants. When plants are grown exclusively in coco peat, it is important to add nutrients according to the specific plants' needs. Coco peat from Philippines, Sri Lanka and India contains several macro- and micro-plant nutrients, including substantial quantities of potassium. This extra potassium can interfere with magnesium availability. Adding extra magnesium through the addition of magnesium sulphates can correct this issue.

Some coco peat is not fully decomposed when it arrives and will use up available nitrogen as it does so (known as drawdown), competing with the plant if there is not enough. This is called nitrogen robbery; it can cause nitrogen deficiency in the plants. Poorly sourced coco fibre can have excess salts in it and needs washing (check electrical conductivity of run-off water, flush if high). It holds water well and holds around 1000 times more air than soil. Adding slow release fertilizers or organic fertilizers are highly advised when growing with coco fibre.

I knew about nitrogen drawdown from a bark-based mix, but not coir. Not growing in coir currently, but this discussion has added some to my own knowledge base.

Thank you!