The Haze discussion thread

[Guest]

Tomhill came by recently was talking his haze was something Wernard had under the counter not haze 19 as was thought Or maybe youre saying its possible?

I heard that story too for sure someone can find it online.
I think what matters is where toms haze is now and with the limited amount of plants ive grown of it there seems to be a huge difference to the old TFD haze, toms seem much more manageable than the TFD with less overall stretch and less wild types in the mix , also out of a few TFD packs i tried you were hard pushed to get any males whereas toms seems to produce more males.

 

[@hempy]

Tom posted

Originally posted by Ghost Protocol View Post

There was an earlier version sam passed around. You'll have to drag it out of him lol. When i met adam at thseeds mid90's there was this guy smoking a cerebral sandlewoody thing. I believe that to be one of sams earlier haze lots again drag it out of him if you can lol. I reckon that the one shanti ran with. But for me, the final incarnation when realized in all its glory was best. And that is the heavy citus thai green 4 way hybrid.

We use to chat with Tom in Chat a lot not seen him since harvest time hope his enjoying the surf and sun some were exotic and staying safe.

 

[LostTribe]

i doubt sam would agree that 97 to 99% of haze is hay ,
but then he may not know it like you seem to .... lol ....

im sure tom retracted that statement anyhow ,
and likely meant to say a small % are super duper ,
If i recall it was more in the range of 5% ,
and the rest range from good to average ....

i mean who the heck would bother growing something that 99% of is hay ,
it would mean mad mac has only grown hay ,, and nearly all tods seeds will also produce hay ...

There is absolutely no truth to this with regard to my initial experience with the Original Haze line. I've yet to find a pure Original Haze that I would call hay. Sure I've only run a handful but even a pack it is difficult to decide what you must part with lots of slight variation but a few are certainly more potent and effective than some of the others.

LT

NH on the other hand is a different story, pretty let down. Maybe I'll try a few more on down the road.

 

[Donald Mallard]

There is absolutely no truth to this with regard to my initial experience with the Original Haze line. I've yet to find a pure Original Haze that I would call hay. Sure I've only run a handful but even a pack it is difficult to decide what you must part with lots of slight variation but a few are certainly more potent and effective than some of the others.

LT

NH on the other hand is a different story, pretty let down. Maybe I'll try a few more on down the road.

yea thats probably closer to the truth ,
im sure they are not all blisteringly potent ,,
and no doubt its only a small % are ,
but the rest are not complete hay i very much doubt ,
i think its a bit of an exaggeration ,
lower potency sure , but hay ,, hmmmm ...
who even toked up a bit of hay to be sure .. lol lol ...

also with regards to outcrossing haze for its best performance,
on reading back on questions to sam ,
he said haze is no good for commercial growing ,
and a hybrid of it is much much better ,
yield is better and they can be more potent than either parent ,

this is just how hybridization can and should work , its nothing new and unheard of ,
plant breeders are well aware of the advantages of hybridizing their lines and what comes from it ...

 

[acespicoli]

I really have smoked some thai weed that tasted just like grass, would much prefer spice or peppery, incense etc over as TH says hay lmao

 

[@hempy]

There is absolutely no truth to this with regard to my initial experience with the Original Haze line. I've yet to find a pure Original Haze that I would call hay. Sure I've only run a handful but even a pack it is difficult to decide what you must part with lots of slight variation but a few are certainly more potent and effective than some of the others.

LT

NH on the other hand is a different story, pretty let down. Maybe I'll try a few more on down the road.

What some call okay others call hay.

You may of found shitty Nevil's haze but even 10 years ago Nevil's Haze was considered to be some of the strongest cannabis if not the strongest you could buy in seed and smoke hands down now not all seeds are equal in any hybrid how many seed did you run were they F1 (i believe you said from MrNice but recent stock ) and what did the plants look like ?.You have any pictures as id love to see pictures.

 

[RoyalFlush]

 

[JohnnyChicago]

yea thats probably closer to the truth ,
im sure they are not all blisteringly potent ,,
and no doubt its only a small % are ,
but the rest are not complete hay i very much doubt ,
i think its a bit of an exaggeration ,
lower potency sure , but hay ,, hmmmm ...
who even toked up a bit of hay to be sure .. lol lol ...

also with regards to outcrossing haze for its best performance,
on reading back on questions to sam ,
he said haze is no good for commercial growing ,
and a hybrid of it is much much better ,
yield is better and they can be more potent than either parent ,

this is just how hybridization can and should work , its nothing new and unheard of ,
plant breeders are well aware of the advantages of hybridizing their lines and what comes from it ...

Bro, you insist a lot on that hay subject.
You can keep a "just ok" bush happy for 9 month in your garden if you can be happy with that.
But my room and my time are to precious.
I grow pure Haze micro, exactly for that reason.

Then it will also depend on the line you are using.

Really no need to rewrite history, bro. If it was considered hay for 25 years, it's because people were finding lots of hay.
If now it has changed, it's because the hay has been bred out or it has been outcrossed.

 

[Donald Mallard]

Bro, you insist a lot on that hay subject.
You can keep a "just ok" bush happy for 9 month in your garden if you can be happy with that.
But my room and my time are to precious.
I grow pure Haze micro, exactly for that reason.

Then it will also depend on the line you are using.

Really no need to rewrite history, bro. If it was considered hay for 25 years, it's because people were finding lots of hay.
If now it has changed, it's because the hay has been bred out or it has been outcrossed.

Only having a go at the fact some say haze is 99 % hay johnny,
when its plainly not ,
and as far as being as weak as hay ,, most plants likely are not like that either ,
its exaggeration ...
Nevil had only 7 plants , of which he found some that suited him nicely , 2 at least ,
so plainly not 99% hay there either ...

I dont grow indoors ,, nor goes haze flower as long where i grow ,
(less than 16 weeks flowering since even the most stubborn sativa finishes in 16 weeks)
so it would be no bother at all if some were not dynamite,
not all folks like to smoke uber potent pot all the time ..

Im not trying to rewrite anything , just get a more realistic view on it ,
because 97 to 99 % hay is not an accurate picture ,
its false .... so i dont mind saying so ...
that is all i have said if you check what i have been saying in the last few pages ...
even you have said you only found 50% were not so potent not 97 or 99 ....

 

[JohnnyChicago]

When a guy says 99% is hay in his seeds.
Then the 1% must be stellar.
That's how I do understand it.

 

[Donald Mallard]

When a guy says 99% is hay in his seeds.
Then the 1% must be stellar.
That's how I do understand it.

yep same here ,
anyhow it wasnt what was originally said when those seeds were released ,
it was said by the breeder one could find an awesome specimen in 1 out of 20 seeds ,
some reference to aisle 9 rings a bell ,
that souinds like 5% to me ,

and it was not the same as the stuff you were growing ,
or did u grow tom hills haze , or positronice seed from back in the 90s ??

the reference used does not describe all the haze available,
just one lot ....
this is the point i am making johnny ,
not a rewrite of history , just trying to make it more accurate to reflect things better ...

 

[ojd]

Only having a go at the fact some say haze is 99 % hay johnny,
when its plainly not ,
and as far as being as weak as hay ,, most plants likely are not like that either ,
its exaggeration ...
Nevil had only 7 plants , of which he found some that suited him nicely , 2 at least ,
so plainly not 99% hay there either ...

I dont grow indoors ,, nor goes haze flower as long where i grow ,
(less than 16 weeks flowering since even the most stubborn sativa finishes in 16 weeks)
so it would be no bother at all if some were not dynamite,
not all folks like to smoke uber potent pot all the time ..

Im not trying to rewrite anything , just get a more realistic view on it ,
because 97 to 99 % hay is not an accurate picture ,
its false .... so i dont mind saying so ...
that is all i have said if you check what i have been saying in the last few pages ...
even you have said you only found 50% were not so potent not 97 or 99 ....

The 7 seeds Nev had were from seeds already made in USA that sam brought over hence germination rate so low , and all others were sams F2 made in Holland.
check dates, sam didn't have time to remake the seeds before he met Nev.

 

[Donald Mallard]

The 7 seeds Nev had were from seeds already made in USA that sam brought over hence germination rate so low , and all others were sams F2 made in Holland.
check dates, sam didn't have time to remake the seeds before he met Nev.

yes i read that he says they were made in 76 ,
its in the questions for sam thread ,
which as u say accounts for lower viability in 84,

im not sure the term f2 is correct for an already well inbred line ,
but i understand what you are referring too ...

the 99 and 97% hay comments are referring to tom hills haze ,
purchased from positronics in the 90s ,
i am sure they were remade prior to the release by tom perhaps more than once,
when he released them he said 1 in 20 were special ,
but hempy says he was told its only 1 to 3% ,

johnny says 50% on his , a different batch from a different vendor ,
there is a catalog around somewhere where sam tells the % of keepers too ,
different rates again ...

 

[@hempy]

Posted by Nevil -
The stock that I got from Sam was 69'/ 70'. He told me it was 60'/70' and warned me of poor germination results. The various batches were labeled and dated. All indications are that he was telling the truth. He was also reluctant to sell because of limited stock.
Is anyone suggesting that either he or I are lying about this?
N.

Posted by Nevil -
Sorry, that was a typo. I meant 69'/70'.
As I said, he was reluctant to sell, but he needed money.
The bags and labeling looked at least 15 years old. The germination rates were consistant with seeds of this age. And most importantly, I was not aware of any significance of these dates. If he said they were from 76', I still would have been interested. No, if he was lying, the seeds would have been older and not bred by him. The benefit in this case, would be that he could claim authorship. Otherwise, who benefits?
Please explain more fully the reasons for your suspicions.

Posted by Nevil -
Well Bigherb, I wouldn't swear on a kilo of Haze Hash, that he told me that he grew them himself.
I seem to remember one batch had a number of years mixed together something like '66,'67,'68. A prominent ancestor was a thing called "Burning Bush". If Sam didn't grow burning bush then the person that did will be able to tell us more.
Everything useful was from before 1970. The one plant that came up from '70 batch, Omega, was at best 25% haze and didn't make the grade.
N.

Posted by Nevil -
I remember the Catalogue of Seeds
It was in a High Times.
You raise some interesting questions Bigherb, but not ones that I can answer. My guess is that Sam got these seeds from an old Master. One thing I am convinced of is that these seeds were part of his working gene bank and were irreplaceable. He was reluctant to sell.
I also clearly remember that the first 6 plants came from batches dated prior to 1970.
As I said before, the plants were hybrids. By all means, see if you can get to the bottom of this. I have given my testemony.
N.

Posted by Nevil -
Here is a quote from Sam the skunkman made on ICMAG in 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam_Skunkman
But maybe he meant seeds from 1969? And not grown until the 80's? To be honest I do not know.
-SamS
Duh!
And so there is no further confusion, I have never met the Haze bros and I never got a useful haze clone from anybody.
If you want me to speculate (I know you do), I would say that the seeds that I bought, were seeds that he got off his neighbours (haze bros.) with the admonition not to give them to anyone. He sold them to me and now he's trying to cover his arse, by saying that the sale was conditional. Can you believe it, selling seeds to a seed company that were 15+ years old with the warning that none might come up, but if they do I couldn't use them? That sounds like a deal that I'd go for (sarcasm). Remember this was a deal in '84 for thousands of dollars between 2 guys strapped for cash.

They say that if you smell a skunk, you might think that it's full of shit.
Well, O.K., I made that up.
N.

Posted by Nevil -
Yeah, I've heard Sam whining before about how he should really get a royalty from everyone who he sold seeds to who used his genetics, 50% for pure lines and 25% for hybrids. This is after he sold you something for more than the price of gold in the first place. By his own admission, he didn't start working with Haze until the 70's. All the good ones I grew were from prior to 1970, so whose seeds were they, or is Sam a secret Haze brother. It seems that Sam feels that he deserves a lot of respect for getting seeds from one competent guy and selling them to another. Indeed, it may well be his finest achievement.

I got 7 plants out of a couple of thousand seeds and they were all different. So which ones were the pure ones exactly! Royalties indeed, I think I'll call him 'Monsanto Sam".
N.

Found here https://mrnice.nl/forum/threads/grai...id.4345/page-4


This is what Nevil posted he was there .

 

[GoatCheese]

if haze is lumbo and cannabis is not native to south america where did the lumbo come from ?

According to Phylos Columbian and Jamaican are related to SE Asia ..thai, laos etc

 

[Hammerhead]

Which is considered better?.
OH
NV
THH

 

[Limeygreen]

Hammerhead imo oh is best thanks to mac we have access to this and thanks to jc as well as golli to make this possible.

Good oh has unbeatable taste and clear energetic high that soothes the brain excites the senses and encompasses what good herb is. My humble opinion.

 

[acespicoli]

According to Phylos Columbian and Jamaican are related to SE Asia ..thai, laos etc

This is consistent with scholarly studies on the history of cannabis
https://en.wikipedia. org/wiki/History_of_cannabis
makes me wonder how long a plant will retain the qualities that it has evolved to be, in another grow environment

Cannabis was introduced to Brazil either by the Portuguese colonists or by African slaves in the early 1800s. Their intent may have been to cultivate hemp fiber, but the slaves the Portuguese imported from Africa were familiar with cannabis and used it psychoactively, leading the Municipal Council of Rio de Janeiro in 1830 to prohibit bringing cannabis into the city, and punishing its use by any slave. Similarly, the British practice of transporting Indian indentured workers throughout the empire had the result of spreading the longstanding cannabis practices. Concerns about use of gandia by laborers led to a ban in British Mauritius in 1840,and use of ganja by Indian laborers in British Singapore led to its banning there in 1870.In 1870, Natal (now in South Africa) passed the Coolie Law Consolidation prohibiting "the smoking, use, or possession by and the sale, barter, or gift to, any Coolies [Indian indentured workers] whatsoever, of any portion of the hemp plant (Cannabis sativa)..."

Newly arrived indentured laborers from India in Trinidad (near Tobago carribean)
based on a quote from the Biblical book of Deuteronomy.[SUP][4][/SUP] Thanks and praises are offered to Jah before smoking the chillum.[SUP][5][/SUP]
A small stone is often used as a stopper in the stem. The style of pipe spread quickly to Africa, and is known in the Americas since the 1960s. A chillum pipe is used in Rastafari rituals.



Led Zeppelin's, "Whole Lotta Love"
Misheard Lyrics:

I keep a coolie, baby.
Original Lyrics:

Keep it coolin', baby.

:yay:

coo·lie

/ˈko͞olē/
noun
noun: coolie; plural noun: coolies

• offensive•dated
  an unskilled native laborer in India, China, and some other Asian countries.

sadhu with chillum - cool hitter - just chill dude

Wisdom_Chalice - Jamaica

 

[Montuno]

About all those stories of slaves carrying seeds to America on bracelets, toys or between "their clothes"...
The slaves traveled naked and chained,
on the verge of starvation and in a hell of humidity, heat, and bodily fluids...
(in addition, clothing would multiply parasites and fleas).

They even suffered rat attacks.... No seed would survive like this...
...And if any slave made it this way, or traveling in better conditions, they would be very few anecdotic cases...
I recommend reading the "History of Slavery" by Hugh Thomas, accepted as one of the most updated, deep and documented works on the subject...

On the other hand, remember that the psychoactive cannabis that could be introduced by the Spanish and Portuguese (whether the seeds came from Portuguese black Africa, or from the Spanish Canary Islands, or from Portuguese Madeira) would have arrived in Africa also from India (either by the trade in the Indian Ocean between Southwest India and East Central and Southeast Africa; or by the Arabs; or by the Portuguese themselves). Also, remember that both Portugal and Spain, in Imperial times, had possessions in South India...

Also, remember how the Spanish Pacific Manila-Acapulco route (first part of the voyage to Seville) introduced mangoes to America, and surely also cannabis seeds from the Philippines (and the rest of Southeast Asia). In that same Southeast Asia, both nations, apart from the Spanish Philippines, had more possessions: just remember the fact that against popular belief, the first human to circumnavigate the Earth was not El Cano, but a native sailor from the Molucca Islands who during Spanish or Portuguese rule on the area, arrived in European Spain and joined the expedition...).

As for when the psychoactivity of these varieties is questioned, remember that there are even well documented (several durin diferents centuries) Spanish governmental actions to prevent the use of this cannabis as a "drug" by the popular classes, including the natives of Mexico and Central America (people who possessed some of the most potent psychotropics known, and "did not get high with any little thing ...").
As remember the failure of the attempt to cultivate "more hemp kind of cannabis" in the Caribbean, which I believe is well documented during the British era of Jamaica with the "Russian hemp"...

Health to everybody !

 

[Hammerhead]

In a 2014 Geographical Review article, Professor Barney Warf of the University of Kansas outlines cannabis’ thousands-years-long geographical journey around the world. Cannabis’ diffusion from Asia to the Americas was the result of a combination of cultural, political, and economic influences.

According to Warf, cannabis likely evolved in Mongolia and southern Siberia. Alternatively, it may have evolved near the Huang He River valley, the Hindu Kush mountains, Afghanistan, or somewhere in South Asia.

Warf reports that the human use of cannabis may reach back as far as 12,000 years. Psychoactive cannabis has been found in Pazaryk burial grounds from 3,000 BC. Chinese paintings dating to 6,200 BC containing images of the cannabis plant have been identified on Yangshao-era pottery. Carbon-14 dating technology has revealed that cannabis may have been used as a surgical anesthetic for emperor Shen Nung in 2737 BC.

Around 2000 BC, cannabis moved from China to Korea and Japan. Cannabis use was pervasive among nomadic tribes sojourning through central Asia. These tribes brought cannabis with them to the Middle East and Eastern Europe. The Anglo-Saxon invasion may be responsible for the introduction of cannabis to Britain and France.

Cannabis was likely introduced to Africa through Egypt and Ethiopia by Arab merchants from the Middle East. Cannabis gradually spread from the east coast of Africa to the internal continent, where it was commonly used by the time the Portuguese arrived in the 16[SUP]th[/SUP] century. Colonial capitalism and the slave trade are responsible for the introduction of cannabis to the Americas. The Spanish, Portuguese, and British are responsible for introducing cannabis to the Americas.

While North American Indians were responsible for introducing tobacco to the British, British colonists were the ones who introduced cannabis to North American Indians. Although the British were aware of the psychotropic effects of smoking cannabis, they were far more interested in the economic versatility of industrial hemp. Hemp was such an important part of the British empire’s economy, Queen Elizabeth ordered that all landowners with 60 or more acres of land were required to grow hemp or pay a fine. Farmers in the early North American colonies were required to grow hemp including such notable figures as George Washington and Thomas Jefferson.