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Activists want chimp declared a 'person'

HotCha

Member
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070504/ap_on_sc/chimp_challenge;_ylt=AneeLfY9fOAdOTll3fthwP7MWM0F

By WILLIAM J. KOLE, Associated Press Writer

VIENNA, Austria - In some ways, Hiasl is like any other Viennese: He indulges a weakness for pastry, likes to paint and enjoys chilling out watching TV. But he doesn't care for coffee, and he isn't actually a person — at least not yet.

In a case that could set a global legal precedent for granting basic rights to apes, animal rights advocates are seeking to get the 26-year-old male chimpanzee legally declared a "person."

Hiasl's supporters argue he needs that status to become a legal entity that can receive donations and get a guardian to look out for his interests.

"Our main argument is that Hiasl is a person and has basic legal rights," said Eberhart Theuer, a lawyer leading the challenge on behalf of the Association Against Animal Factories, a Vienna animal rights group.

"We mean the right to life, the right to not be tortured, the right to freedom under certain conditions," Theuer said.

"We're not talking about the right to vote here."

The campaign began after the animal sanctuary where Hiasl (pronounced HEE-zul) and another chimp, Rosi, have lived for 25 years went bankrupt.

Activists want to ensure the apes don't wind up homeless if the shelter closes. Both have already suffered: They were captured as babies in Sierra Leone in 1982 and smuggled in a crate to Austria for use in pharmaceutical experiments. Customs officers intercepted the shipment and turned the chimps over to the shelter.

Their food and veterinary bills run about $6,800 a month. Donors have offered to help, but there's a catch: Under Austrian law, only a person can receive personal donations.

Organizers could set up a foundation to collect cash for Hiasl, whose life expectancy in captivity is about 60 years. But without basic rights, they contend, he could be sold to someone outside Austria, where the chimp is protected by strict animal cruelty laws.

"If we can get Hiasl declared a person, he would have the right to own property. Then, if people wanted to donate something to him, he'd have the right to receive it," said Theuer, who has vowed to take the case to the European Court of Human Rights if necessary.

Austria isn't the only country where primate rights are being debated. Spain's parliament is considering a bill that would endorse the Great Ape Project, a Seattle-based international initiative to extend "fundamental moral and legal protections" to apes.

If Hiasl gets a guardian, "it will be the first time the species barrier will have been crossed for legal 'personhood,'" said Jan Creamer, chief executive of Animal Defenders International, which is working to end the use of primates in research.

Paula Stibbe, a Briton who teaches English in Vienna, petitioned a district court to be Hiasl's legal trustee. On April 24, Judge Barbara Bart rejected her request, ruling Hiasl didn't meet two key tests: He is neither mentally impaired nor in an emergency.

Although Bart expressed concern that awarding Hiasl a guardian could create the impression that animals enjoy the same legal status as humans, she didn't rule that he could never be considered a person.

Martin Balluch, who heads the Association Against Animal Factories, has asked a federal court for a ruling on the guardianship issue.

"Chimps share 99.4 percent of their DNA with humans," he said. "OK, they're not homo sapiens. But they're obviously also not things — the only other option the law provides."

Not all Austrian animal rights activists back the legal challenge. Michael Antolini, president of the local Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, said he thinks it's absurd.

"I'm not about to make myself look like a fool" by getting involved, said Antolini, who worries that chimpanzees could gain broader rights, such as copyright protections on their photographs.

But Stibbe, who brings Hiasl sweets and yogurt and watches him draw and clown around by dressing up in knee-high rubber boots, insists he deserves more legal rights "than bricks or apples or potatoes."

"He can be very playful but also thoughtful," she said. "Being with him is like playing with someone who can't talk."

A date for the appeal hasn't been set, but Hiasl's legal team has lined up expert witnesses, including Jane Goodall, the world's foremost observer of chimpanzee behavior.

"When you see Hiasl, he really comes across as a person," Theuer said.

"He has a real personality. It strikes you immediately: This is an individual. You just have to look him in the eye to see that."

A few years back a friend and I speculated that this kind of thing was in our future. Any thoughts? I wonder what other species are on the "potential persons" list?
 

NOKUY

Active member
Veteran
"primate rights" eh?

I don't think we will ever be able to draw the line on this shit (sucks that I'm on both sides of it)....actually I like animals more than I like most people....so I vote yes on "primate rights".....but I'm still going moose huntin'. (see what I mean?)
 
G

Guest

Most definitely we should give these animals similar rights to humans. Good. Primate populations are dwindling and poachers are running around essentially without worry, armed to the teeth, in many places

And seriously, who in their right mind can argue with the statement
"We mean the right to life, the right to not be tortured, the right to freedom under certain conditions,"

Is that really that much to ask for? No way!
 
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G

Guest

NOKUY said:
most voters ARE "chimps"

...this one should pass with flying colors!


This is so true! Animals are pretty much better than humans these days. With animals what you see..is what you get.
 

GMT

The Tri Guy
Veteran
I'm not anti chimp at all. But if we give them the same rights as people, how does that protect them from becoming homeless. The way this reads, then once you are human, you will live a comfortable life. Seeing them as people just makes them less than they already are. If this was a 25 year old male person, you'd say go out and get a job. But its a chimp, so we say Ahhhh. What they should do is allow animals to be an entity in their own right in the same way a company or charity is an entity in its own right. Then donations could be made and people employed to make decisions on behalf of the entity in question. The issue of animal v people is nothing more than a headline grabber for attention seeking animal welfare groups looking for donations.
 
G

Guest

GMT said:
I'm not anti chimp at all. But if we give them the same rights as people, how does that protect them from becoming homeless. The way this reads, then once you are human, you will live a comfortable life. Seeing them as people just makes them less than they already are. If this was a 25 year old male person, you'd say go out and get a job. But its a chimp, so we say Ahhhh. What they should do is allow animals to be an entity in their own right in the same way a company or charity is an entity in its own right. Then donations could be made and people employed to make decisions on behalf of the entity in question. The issue of animal v people is nothing more than a headline grabber for attention seeking animal welfare groups looking for donations.

They are not asking for a lot of the things that you are saying they are:

"We mean the right to life, the right to not be tortured, the right to freedom under certain conditions," Theuer said.
 
G

Guest

"But if we give them the same rights as people, how does that protect them from becoming homeless. "

Nobody is talking about giving them all the same rights as people, and nobody is saying anything about them being homeless, we're talking about protecting their habitat though.

And this is NOT just a "headline grabber"

Every single day primates are separated from their parents, tortured,kept in inhuman conditions, poached, ripped from their habitats and sold....

and that is exactly why we are seeing the major primate populations dropping to the point of near extinction.
 

Pops

Resident pissy old man
Veteran
America is so much further along than Austria, as we already have animal rights. To prove it, we have a baboon in the White House and a horse's ass as vice president.
 
HotCha said:
Donors have offered to help, but there's a catch: Under Austrian law, only a person can receive personal donations.

That seems to be the main bitch here. They just want to be able to accept donations to care for the chimps.

That law really doesn't make very much sense IMO.

No animal shelters in Austria?

Never should of let Schwarzenegger run for Governer, now his country needs him more than ever.

Pops said:
America is so much further along than Austria, as we already have animal rights. To prove it, we have a baboon in the White House and a horse's ass as vice president.

That is some funny shit Pops!!!!
 
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Pops said:
America is so much further along than Austria, as we already have animal rights. To prove it, we have a baboon in the White House and a horse's ass as vice president.
dayum Pops, yot on tonight... lol @ :fsu: :joint:
 

GMT

The Tri Guy
Veteran
The chimp isnt in the wild, and probably couldnt survive there now anyway. The story wasn't raising awareness for the plight of wild chimps. It wanted to allow donations to be made that would allow the chimps to live in captivity but paid for by donations made directly to the chimp. To allow the chimp to be the employer. The point I was making is that the law could be altered to allow the donations to be made for the chimp, without having to declare the chimp as having anything to do with being a person in its dna, behaviour, capabilities or anything else. The whole thing of a chimp being a person is aimed at grabbing headlines, mainly to generate donations to pay for their keep, who ever is keeping them. But like I said to start with, I'm not anti-chimp.
 
N

newbieb

like many of you i like animals more than people but if he gets to be a human and have human rights i will not stand idly by if he starts taking his clothes off i demand he have the same rules as us too. equaltiy.
 

Nikijad4210

Member
Veteran
Pops said:
America is so much further along than Austria, as we already have animal rights. To prove it, we have a baboon in the White House and a horse's ass as vice president.
Hahahaha, excellent point! :biglaugh:


You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Pops again.
 

marx2k

Active member
Veteran
Wow, you guys surprise me sometimes. I was totally prepared to delve into this thread and reply to a bunch of people who find all non-human entities far below humans not deserving any rights or protections because humans are the best and anything beneath us is just meat.

I'm all for animal rights and find life to be precious in situations besides when it's a human's life. To me, killing a cow and killing a human being is the same thing. And I'm sure if there were a being that's sees us like we see ants scurrying about an anthill, they'd see it the same exact way. Life is life and either it's all precious or you're just being an elitist asshole :)
 
G

Guest

"We mean the right to life, the right to not be tortured, the right to freedom under certain conditions," Theuer said.
I don't even have that right. I'm suppose to, it's written on, ironically on some animal skin (or is that just the Declaration of Independence), but I assume it's only there to pacify me into thinking I'm free. But I don't even have those rights myself, I'm certainly not going to give them to an ape.

I can't even get my tax monies to pay for the working sick and injured, why would I want those monies to pay for a chimp's medical bills. Give him rights as a person, declare him as a person so he can go on medicaid and welfare.
I'm all for animal rights and protection. A trust fund cared for by a trustee to accept donations for a santuary. But I'm not budging on sharing my inalienable right to be hunted for growing a weed, imprisoned without charges, and tortured because I may be growing for Al Queda.
 

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