NOT A LOT OF PEOPLE KNOW THIS - The Kalergi Plan.

[Montuno]

This will be my last message here:

I will give you an imaginary image of my identity, a la Cervantes: Imagine that I am a Marxist (democratic; not Bolshevik) and Muslim (practising or not; but not fundamentalist) Spanish European.

I will now give you my socio-politico-cultural (not geographical) concept of contemporary Western Europe:

Those societies whose politics and morals are guided-inspired by the Ideals of Classical Greek Philosophy and Ethics n' democratic ideal. We can add to them the French revolutionary ideals of liberty, equality and fraternity.

Full stop.

I do not need to agree neither in my religion, nor in my political ideas, with someone with whom I do agree on what is highlighted in bold, in order to recognise him as my "fellow Western European"... Even if he is a right-winger, a Christian, or a Scandinavian lover of black metal.
Likewise on the contrary, even if I share my Muslim religion, or my Marxist ideals, if the other person does not share what is highlighted in bold, even though we live under the same roof...

And I have come to these conclusions on my own, with the limited intelligence that the racial classification you spread, and being a muslim and a marxist, predicted me.
I have not needed anyone to inflame the hatred of my Christian and right-wing neighbour with whom I live in peace, for him to come and convince me...or to do worse things to me...

Even less so in my country, where we have killed each other, as we have fruitfully and peacefully coexisted with three and more cultures/religions during secles.

 

[Sunshineinabag]

the truth is, 99% of us would have done as ordered had we lived in nazi germany. all these people being holier then though would be the first to put on the swastica.

they rant and rave about fascism and don't even see that more fascism and dictatorship is creeping in to their governments minute by minute.

Right lots of folks shot on sight

 

[gaiusmarius]

Right lots of folks shot on sight

sorry, but thats never how it starts. maybe read some history. first everyone thinks the new leaders is a great saviour, only "bad" people, are punished, everyone is very happy, they march and chant enthusiastically.

but at night, anonymous gangs of black shirts start pulling people out of their homes who are not so happy for some strange reason, professors are booed, beaten and pulled off stage. silenced in fact, or shall we say cancelled.

people's right to disagree with the status quo disappears as one by one, the free spirits are taken down, one way or another.

only then come the re education and labour camps for anyone designated persona non grate, including their family and relatives. all the while the masses are still happily marching and chanting.

then after the war the masses are all, we didnt know what was being done, it wasn't me.

well shiver me timbers how glad i am that we are only on step 2. that means all is well, no danger of dictatorship at all. nothing to see here.

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

OK - so you are not up to answering any of the questions from my last post - or further engaging with this thread/topic due to you now stating that you identify as a Muslim Marxist - its as if you were wearing a mask on stage as an actor in a theatrical production (this thread) - then when the play had finished - you remove the mask - and show your face - while you take a bow - lol - very dramatic -

- It was getting interesting to hear things from your perspective and outlook - as I see you took an interest in mine - that is the point of 'civil discourse' - to bring two or more worlds of thought together and civilly discuss the topic - with humour and reason/logic - and arrive at some sort of understanding of each others point of view - which may add to our knowledge - so forming new opinions and even change our mind-set completely - as to how we see and understand the world around us - keeping an open mind - this is at the base of what is called 'Civilization' -

- Putting people into little boxes with labels on them - compartmentalizing a person by religion and what you think is their political persuasion - is fraught with danger - and you can't paint the world just black and white - there are so - so many colours - so many cultures - so many ideas - some that have never even made their way into books yet - still being formulated as I type -

- My ideals and ethic's are based on one line from 'Pinocchio' - when Jimminy Cricket says - 'Let your conscience be your guide' - and I am no believer in invisible wizards in the sky - nor murdering- en-slaving prophets-kings-or dictators and popes from the past - or the present

- You are my fellow human - never mind the regional/geographical/religious or political classification - and its good to know you -

This will be my last message here:

I will give you an imaginary image of my identity, a la Cervantes: Imagine that I am a Marxist (democratic; not Bolshevik) and Muslim (practising or not; but not fundamentalist) Spanish European.

I will now give you my socio-politico-cultural (not geographical) concept of contemporary Western Europe:

Those societies whose politics and morals are guided-inspired by the Ideals of Classical Greek Philosophy and Ethics n' .

Full stop.

I do not need to agree neither in my religion, nor in my political ideas, with someone with whom I do agree on what is highlighted in bold, in order to recognise him as my "fellow Western European"... Even if he is a right-winger, a Christian, or a Scandinavian lover of black metal.
Likewise on the contrary, even if I share my Muslim religion, or my Marxist ideals, if the other person does not share what is highlighted in bold, even though we live under the same roof...

And I have come to these conclusions on my own, with the limited intelligence that the racial classification you spread, and being a muslim and a marxist, predicted me.
I have not needed anyone to inflame the hatred of my Christian and right-wing neighbour with whom I live in peace, for him to come and convince me...or to do worse things to me...

Even less so in my country, where we have killed each other, as we have fruitfully and peacefully coexisted with three and more cultures/religions during secles.

 

[gaiusmarius]

OK - so you are not up to answering any of the questions from my last post - or further engaging with this thread/topic due to you now stating that you identify as a Muslim Marxist - its as if you were wearing a mask on stage as an actor in a theatrical production (this thread) - then when the play had finished - you remove the mask - and show your face - while you take a bow - lol - very dramatic -

- It was getting interesting to hear things from your perspective and outlook - as I see you took an interest in mine - that is the point of 'civil discourse' - to bring two or more worlds of thought together and civilly discuss the topic - with humour and reason/logic - and arrive at some sort of understanding of each others point of view - which may add to our knowledge - so forming new opinions and even change our mind-set completely - as to how we see and understand the world around us - keeping an open mind -

- Putting people into little boxes with labels on them - compartmentalizing a person by religion and what you think is their political persuasion - is fraught with danger - and you can't paint the world just black and white - there are so - so many colours - so many cultures - so many ideas - some that have never even made their way into books yet - still being formulated as I type -

- My ideals and ethic's are based on one line from 'Pinocchio' - when Jimminy Cricket says 'Let your conscience be your guide' - and I am no believer in invisible wizards in the sky - nor murdering- en-slaving prophets-kings-or dictators and popes from the past - or the present

- You are my fellow human - never mind the regional/geographical/religious or political classification - and its good to know you -

you know we don't see eye to eye on some things, but i also find it so disappointing when peoples arguments are based on labels and identity politics. its easier to think of some as racist then confronting uncomfortable truths i guess.

i am coming more and more to the conclusion that opposition is vitally important, even if they are wrong headed, you need opposition, when a whole nation or people start all agreeing on everything and marching in tandem, you get the worst possible results. even the right side of an issue needs opposition in order to not go off the deep end. when opposition is made into a crime, then you better start think of packing our bags. every free nation needs an opposition to the government to keep them in check

 

[gaiusmarius]

this is quite amazing, watching Milton Freedman dealing with all the same questions people are asking today, but this was in the 1970s. he even has a student asking about equality vs equity of outcome. fascinating talk.


Milton Friedman Speaks: What is America? (B1225) - Full Video

[YOUTUBEIF]hoFdVuqrMZw[/YOUTUBEIF]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoFdVuqrMZw

its a tinny bit off the thread topic, but not totally. as some of the arguments are about immigration. they had the same exact fears back then it seems. he says you cant have open immigration if the government provides free services. but it would be fine otherwise.

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

- Yes - agreed - its all too easy for people to take some stereotypical classification from the media - and paint everyone that does not agree with them - just one of two shades - either black or white - if you are not on their side - then you must be on the other side - and an enemy - total absolute and potentially apocalyptic polarization occurs all too often - its as if most people have been brainwashed to think that there can only be 2 sides to an issue - you are either 'in' - or you are 'out' -

- I do enjoy tackling difficult topics - that stir people up - so get them to think and debate about them - because you can't just sweep anything under the carpet - and expect it not to stink - sooner or later you will have to clear that mess up - and confront the issue -

- The idea of starting a topic with a potentially unknown conspiracy - (it was to me at the time) - is to attract members that take up a contrary position - (an opposition) - and argue against it - and try to de-bunk it - as we have seen many attempt at during this thread - but in the end - it turns out that Kalergi and his plan was and still is VERY real - and it has already partly come to fruition - in front of our very eyes - thru all the secrecy - finger-pointing and misguided efforts to link it with the 'Nazi's - turns out it had nothing to do with them at all - and the plot had been hatched and paid for long before Adolf came to power -

you know we don't see eye to eye on some things, but i also find it so disappointing when peoples arguments are based on labels and identity politics. its easier to think of some as racist then confronting uncomfortable truths i guess.

i am coming more and more to the conclusion that opposition is vitally important, even if they are wrong headed, you need opposition, when a whole nation or people start all agreeing on everything and marching in tandem, you get the worst possible results. even the right side of an issue needs opposition in order to not go off the deep end. when opposition is made into a crime, then you better start think of packing our bags. every free nation needs an opposition to the government to keep them in check

 

[Sunshineinabag]

Huh maybe I misunderstood the documentary I watched on the sd was wrong?Joseph Goebbels speaks to them ....winds then up about shutting up the Jewish mouths in the Jewish press who slyly threaten them in their presses...
Next thing the ss are in almost every area w hitler .....then shooting folks on sight if they even though they were anti social party......I must have misunderstood your point

 

[gaiusmarius]

Huh maybe I misunderstood the documentary I watched on the sd was wrong?Joseph Goebbels speaks to them ....winds then up about shutting up the Jewish mouths in the Jewish press who slyly threaten them in their presses...
Next thing the ss are in almost every area w hitler .....then shooting folks on sight if they even though they were anti social party......I must have misunderstood your point

lol, did the documentary mention WW1 maybe? the Versailles treaty?

things don't happen in a vacuum. Germany was humiliated and brought to its knees in abject surrender, made to pay giant reparations to the victorious nations in ww1.

from the days when hitler was preaching to a small group of supporters in a beer cellar to the day he ran for chancellor a lot changed and it took some time. when they first screamed about the evil Jews, not many took them seriously, even when they started holding marches and chanting their slogans. but when the opposing voices started getting beaten, threatened and disappeared, by anonymous thugs in the night, it was too late.

once hitler won the election for chancellor of Germany, all bets were off, you were quickly considered with them or you were an outcast. why, because hitlers leadership turned out incredibly good for the German economy. so the masses loved and supported him, he allowed them to get up off their knees again as a nation and even started increasing the German reich, by invading places they had lost in ww1. so the masses loved hitler. he was a compelling speaker and gobels was a highly intelligent psychopath, together they were effective in unifying the whole nation to their aspirations, this included getting back the German reich, so they started invading neighbours, thats when they started with the actual labour camps which might as well have been called extermination camps as they under fed and over worked people to literal death while 20 miles away a German village would go about its day in blissful ignorance at what was done in the so called war effort. the point is, it was a slow process made possible by the historic circumstances and by the silencing of opposition and dissenting voices out of the public square, schools, universities, churches, newspapers and books.

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

- Hmmm - found this whilst moseying around da intrawebs - discuss - real or schpeel? - we were never told in school that Judea (the Jews) had declared war on the Germans - Hmmm - very odd eh?- Maybe it had something to do with Hitler closing 9 Jewish banks in Germany - out of the 11 they had there ? - if true -

* - look at the date March 24th 1933 - more than 6 years before WW2 broke out -

 

[Absolem]

The Jewish people never declared "war" on Germany. It was known as the "Anti nazi boycott" for how the nazi's were treating the Jewish people.

The term "Kalergi plan" was a term coined by white supremist Gerd Honsik in 2006 when he titled his book that..

https://www.encyclopedia.com/religion/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/boycott-anti-nazi

BOYCOTT, ANTI-NAZI
In protest against anti-Jewish excesses in Germany after the Nazi Party's victory at the polls on March 5, 1933, Jews throughout the world held mass rallies, marches, and a spontaneous anti-German boycott. This boycott developed into an organized movement after the demonstrative all-day boycott of the Nazis against German Jewry on April 1. The boycott proclamation of March 20 by the Jews of Vilna marked the launching of the boycott movement in Europe; Warsaw followed six days later. Soon the movement embraced virtually all Poland and was subsequently consolidated by the United Boycott Committee of Poland. This boycott movement was short-lived, however, for in January 1934, Poland signed a ten-year nonaggression pact with Hitler, in which cessation of boycott activities was stipulated as a precondition. Under Poland's premier, Józef Pilsudski, the provision was ignored. But in June 1935, about a month after his death, the United Boycott Committee was liquidated.

 

[Absolem]

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/richard-nikolaus-coudenhove-kalergi

"In 1933, Nazi students at more than 30 German universities pillaged libraries in search of books they considered to be "un-German." Among the literary and political writings they threw into the flames were the works of Richard Nikolaus Coudenhove-Kalergi."

 

[gaiusmarius]

- Hmmm - found this whilst moseying around da intrawebs - discuss - real or schpeel? - we were never told in school that Judea (the Jews) had declared war on the Germans - Hmmm - very odd eh?- Maybe it had something to do with Hitler closing 9 Jewish banks in Germany - out of the 11 they had there ? - if true -

* - look at the date March 24th 1933 - more than 6 years before WW2 broke out -

View Image

there is a compelling historical case to be made that the German people at that time were betrayed by the world leading Jews, whether true or not, no one can argue that is what they believed.

the belief was widely enough engrained in society that it was not a hard argument to win with the majority of the German public.

the trouble is all the top Jewish industrialists and bankers all left and the Germanic wrath fell mostly on your average innocent Jew with no power to betray a whole nation.

they were scape goated as a convenient excuse for all that was not well in their world. the historic lessons are monumental.

 

[Sunshineinabag]

lol, did the documentary mention WW1 maybe? the Versailles treaty?

things don't happen in a vacuum. Germany was humiliated and brought to its knees in abject surrender, made to pay giant reparations to the victorious nations in ww1.

from the days when hitler was preaching to a small group of supporters in a beer cellar to the day he ran for chancellor a lot changed and it took some time. when they first screamed about the evil Jews, not many took them seriously, even when they started holding marches and chanting their slogans. but when the opposing voices started getting beaten, threatened and disappeared, by anonymous thugs in the night, it was too late.

once hitler won the election for chancellor of Germany, all bets were off, you were quickly considered with them or you were an outcast. why, because hitlers leadership turned out incredibly good for the German economy. so the masses loved and supported him, he allowed them to get up off their knees again as a nation and even started increasing the German reich, by invading places they had lost in ww1. so the masses loved hitler. he was a compelling speaker and gobels was a highly intelligent psychopath, together they were effective in unifying the whole nation to their aspirations, this included getting back the German reich, so they started invading neighbours, thats when they started with the actual labour camps which might as well have been called extermination camps as they under fed and over worked people to literal death while 20 miles away a German village would go about its day in blissful ignorance at what was done in the so called war effort. the point is, it was a slow process made possible by the historic circumstances and by the silencing of opposition and dissenting voices out of the public square, schools, universities, churches, newspapers and books.

Absolutely....
I obviously got wound up watching that documentary thx smithsonian channel lol your point about getting folks back to work.....prob was the most influential thing that swayed folks I'm assuming

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/richard-nikolaus-coudenhove-kalergi

"In 1933, Nazi students at more than 30 German universities pillaged libraries in search of books they considered to be "un-German." Among the literary and political writings they threw into the flames were the works of Richard Nikolaus Coudenhove-Kalergi."

- Yes interesting - the article in The Daily Express was on - March 24th 1933 - (if true)

* continued from quote above: ''All of his works published before May 1933 were thrown into the flames during the book burnings.''

- So if they actually did declare war on Germany - then this whole 'book-burning' episode happened 2 months later - perhaps as a response somehow?

- There was some talk of the domination of German banking by Jewish Zionists all thru the 1900's up to when AH became chancellor - and AH closing many of their banks - because he wanted to issue his own German currency/finances - and not let the Jews have control over it - from what I heard on this 'Europa -The Last Battle' doco - https://archive.org/details/EUROPATheLastBattle/EUROPA+-+The+Last+Battle+-+Part+1.mp4
Apparently the Jews had a stranglehold on German banking and finance - which was creating many starving people -

 

[Sunshineinabag]

Good commentary for the first messages of this thread...

...If you want I pay you also to praise you the string of fascist paranoia that is released in this thread...

Here


https://youtu.be/o8-OtyUb9ok

 

[Absolem]

https://spartacus-educational.com/ExamRHU15.htm

British newspapers were fairly sympathetic to Adolf Hitler when he took power in 1933. Harold Harmsworth (Lord Rothermere) the owner of the The Daily Mail and Evening News, was a supporter of the Nazi government and James Pool, the author of Who Financed Hitler: The Secret Funding of Hitler's Rise to Power (1979), has claimed that he helped to fund the Nazi Party.


On 30th January 1933, Rothermere produced a series of articles supporting the new regime. In his publications he criticized "the old women of both sexes" who filled British newspapers with rabid reports of Nazi "excesses." Instead, the newspaper claimed, Hitler had saved Germany from "Israelites of international attachments" and the "minor misdeeds of individual Nazis will be submerged by the immense benefits that the new regime is already bestowing upon Germany."

William Maxwell Aitken (Lord Beaverbrook), the owner of Daily Express and the Evening Standard, was also friendly towards Hitler and throughout the 1930s promoted appeasement and praised Neville Chamberlain and the Munich Agreement.

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

- Yes - was just doing a bit of a study on Lord Beaverbrook - who owned The Daily Express at the time of the 'Judea Declares War on Germany' headline - March 24th 1933 - very interesting character - but like so many back then - who had actually met the despicable dictator they really thought old Adolph was a force of good -

''Beaverbrook’s rise was down not only to money and propaganda but also huge ambition, immense energy and great organisational skills. According to Williams, Aitken was also “fun to be with … posh English society was no match for his charm, and part of that charm was his ability to laugh at himself.”

He was an appeaser, quite happy to turn Eastern Europe over to Hitler. The Daily Express headline of Sept 1, 1938 declared “There Will Be No War.” Beaverbrook echoed the lies of Hitler when he said, “The Jews may drive us into war.” He was also friendly with Nazi sympathizers the Duke and Duchess of Windsor.''

* Did AH actually believe that the ZJ's would drive Germany to war - or was he lying?

https://nbmediacoop.org/2020/05/19/aitken-beaverbrook-maverick-manipulator-and-man-of-many-parts/

https://spartacus-educational.com/ExamRHU15.htm

British newspapers were fairly sympathetic to Adolf Hitler when he took power in 1933. Harold Harmsworth (Lord Rothermere) the owner of the The Daily Mail and Evening News, was a supporter of the Nazi government and James Pool, the author of Who Financed Hitler: The Secret Funding of Hitler's Rise to Power (1979), has claimed that he helped to fund the Nazi Party.


On 30th January 1933, Rothermere produced a series of articles supporting the new regime. In his publications he criticized "the old women of both sexes" who filled British newspapers with rabid reports of Nazi "excesses." Instead, the newspaper claimed, Hitler had saved Germany from "Israelites of international attachments" and the "minor misdeeds of individual Nazis will be submerged by the immense benefits that the new regime is already bestowing upon Germany."

William Maxwell Aitken (Lord Beaverbrook), the owner of Daily Express and the Evening Standard, was also friendly towards Hitler and throughout the 1930s promoted appeasement and praised Neville Chamberlain and the Munich Agreement.

 

[Absolem]

* Did AH actually believe that the ZJ's would drive Germany to war - or was he lying?

https://nbmediacoop.org/2020/05/19/aitken-beaverbrook-maverick-manipulator-and-man-of-many-parts/

The Jewish people only made up 1% of the German population. In 1938 hitler banned the ownership and sales of guns to the Jewish people while making it easier for the majority white population to own guns.

So I'm not sure how the Jewish population at 1% and the inability to own firearms would have hitler think in any way they would be a threat.

Richard von Coudenhove-Kalergi was a 27 year old idealist who had a utopian vision for the world. It wasn't based on hate or genocide of a particular race. He envisioned a society where people would get along. regardless of race. I think his idea was flawed and had no way of working with a government so far away from the people it ruled based on five states in the world. Nerveless he wanted to advance society. Flawed as it may be he never left a legacy of paving a road to hell based on good intentions.

So I find it strange that a man like him is slandered with laser focus as spreading the ills of the world. Had it not been for white supremist bringing his name to the forefront to advance their agenda to place blame for disenfranchised white people nobody would even know his name.

Is Richard von Coudenhove-Kalergi's vision being followed today? Or is it more likely the ability to travel so easily to any destination that has caused the influx of immigrants to the west? I don't think any country should have an "open border" policy. Immigration laws should be enforced and carefully written to allow for good immigration policy. In the States anybody from around the world can buy our land. I would like to see that ended. I can't own land in Canada. I've seen many towns in the US being bought up by wealthy foreigners for investment. It's driving up housing prices and not any good for the people here who want homes. So I do get the want and right to control who comes and what outside investment can do with the homeland.

People like AH needed an enemy and at the time in Germany the Jewish population was the target. Blaming minorities for the ills of society is nothing new. It's rather simple. For example you make the majority feel like the minority. You make it sound as if believing in patriotism is a minority view.

Peace.

 

[Chi13]

Well now...so the President of the United States of America is propagating a 'far right' conspiracy theory?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgrliuQW_-Q&feature=emb_logo


There is no such thing as Far Right, Extreme Right, Right Wing Extremist or Ultra Right...those are merely political monikers given to normal, sane people who have not been affected by the decades of relentless propaganda, gaslighting (brainwashing), indoctrination and conditioning. Normal, healthy and sane logic that we have practiced for thousands of years...and for some reason has now become radical extremist views, LOL! This is why we call it Clown World.

Red Ice TV
Renegade Tribune

- Yes interesting - the article in The Daily Express was on - March 24th 1933 - (if true)

* continued from quote above: ''All of his works published before May 1933 were thrown into the flames during the book burnings.''

- So if they actually did declare war on Germany - then this whole 'book-burning' episode happened 2 months later - perhaps as a response somehow?

- There was some talk of the domination of German banking by Jewish Zionists all thru the 1900's up to when AH became chancellor - and AH closing many of their banks - because he wanted to issue his own German currency/finances - and not let the Jews have control over it - from what I heard on this 'Europa -The Last Battle' doco - https://archive.org/details/EUROPATheLastBattle/EUROPA+-+The+Last+Battle+-+Part+1.mp4
Apparently the Jews had a stranglehold on German banking and finance - which was creating many starving people -

The "declared war on Germany" is more a figure of speech, a handy headline. The subheading talks of Boycott of German goods. The Jews were not a nation and could not declare war on anyone. I think they mean that the Jews were in united opposition to Nazi Germany. They certainly did nothing militarily as they did not have the capability.

@sandman, there certainly is a far/extreme right. You might think they are sane, but that says more about your views than anything else. It's all very well that people don't like labels, however words are descriptive and far/extreme right certainly describes some people attitude and political bent. I was reluctant to use the term Fascist to describe Trump, but most of his actions were right out of the Fascist playbook. Events on 6 January kind of proved it to me.