with all this technology and computer database i bet the power company and/or cops could easily sort out very quickly who uses the most power in the town/city.. then investigate the usage.. then just lie about the smell of marijuana. It might be harder for them to do in bigger cities, but in smaller towns it would be a breeze.
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Smart Meters - a few common misconceptions cleared up here.
- Thread starter Strainhunter
- Start date
Well I hate to say it but plants don't "need" a 12/12 bloom cycle..... digest that yet? The true outdoor time in fall is not 12/12 on a timer! Eah strain has it's own dark time trigger to start bloom. Once you know it you gain a little more bloom growth time as it is more than 12 hours for most strains. Waaay back when we had flurs on plywood sheets to aproximate the outdoor time 12/12 came about. Later when hids were around it was for economic reasons. But let's assume you agree with me up to here, how do you find your plants dtt (dark triggger time)? It will take some effort, but you start bby getting a 14+ hour dark time for two weeks aprox. and if no signs then furher educe to either 15 or 30 minutes less light per cycle until you have a idea of what time it will start. this helps you as you will gain some bloom time growth during peak budset more buds result. Now I don't want to hijack this thread on this but you get the idea that 12/12 is man made not nature made. Peace Bad...
very nice... makes perfect sense and is definitely maxing out production for each different strain once you find it's dtt...
thanks for the tip
EDIT: this is a very interesting topic. why don't you start a thread and post the link here? i think a lot of people would be interested in discussing this topic....
Last edited:
..EDIT: this is a very interesting topic. why don't you start a thread and post the link here? i think a lot of people would be interested in discussing this topic....
THIS THREAD has a lot of information on the subject
G
Guest 18340
Heads up future smart meter recipients!
Heads up future smart meter recipients!
This applies to you mega watt guys.
When they first install the smart meter it starts from 0, and it will be manually read for at least a few billing cycles until they "come online".
Which means that the meter reader will know exactly how many KW you used since the meter was installed. You guys running megawatts be careful those first few meter readings. I can promise you that the meter reader's eyebrow will raise when he sees 10-15-20 thousand KW consumed in a 30 day period.
Proceed with caution folks
Heads up future smart meter recipients!
This applies to you mega watt guys.
When they first install the smart meter it starts from 0, and it will be manually read for at least a few billing cycles until they "come online".
Which means that the meter reader will know exactly how many KW you used since the meter was installed. You guys running megawatts be careful those first few meter readings. I can promise you that the meter reader's eyebrow will raise when he sees 10-15-20 thousand KW consumed in a 30 day period.
Proceed with caution folks
Soft420 the answer is since just about everyone here has hid already so use a mix of both, you get the penetration from hid and the spectrum and lower profile from the LEds. I have had several conversations with LED Manuf'rs and they don't seem to get it the start up costs are too high for a light that won't return the difference for some time and then in bulb costs and juice ussage. As far as the thread goes you can't be paranoid and you can't be careless either. So keep posting we all will be reading. I belief that LEDs produce a freq that can be discerned from other equipment. As digital ballast have RF problems sometimes.
people could have their main lights turn off every few hours, maybe 3 ir 4 for however long (say 15-30 mins) and just light with flouros during that time so it looks more like normal appliance use is going on,, and plants dont notice stuff like that so long as the moles of light they get in a day is decent,, would just be like it getting really cloudy for a short while,, in some grows it would help alot to let everything properly cool down at intervals through out the day as well,,
im wondering about all this as am having a new meter installed unfortunately
im wondering about all this as am having a new meter installed unfortunately
this bloody thing has its own modem 
not sure how worried to be
not sure how worried to be
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im in the uk and cant get out of it now,,
ive been thinking and next time i will have to do a mix of flouros that come on for two hours in the morning then fire up the sodiums for three hours with another two hours of flouros in the middle like
2
3
2
3
2
or maybe
1
4
2
4
1
at least that for flowering and something similar for veg, just to hide it a bit better and make the draw more complicated,, im only running one 600 at the moment so im not that worried about that,, other option is autoflowerers but with the amount of seeds i have im not going to buy autoflowerers and let my others just sit in the fridge get older..
this meter give a really accurate reading by the minute lol,,
2
3
2
3
2
or maybe
1
4
2
4
1
at least that for flowering and something similar for veg, just to hide it a bit better and make the draw more complicated,, im only running one 600 at the moment so im not that worried about that,, other option is autoflowerers but with the amount of seeds i have im not going to buy autoflowerers and let my others just sit in the fridge get older..
this meter give a really accurate reading by the minute lol,,
yerboyblue
Member
damn smart meters, bottom line is they want more money from you. they are implementing them in my area and published some stuff like, 'some customers have already been upgraded to them, but everyone else will be by ___' in other words, I know I have one. That's why my bill jumped $300 the month after the guy from the power company knocked and said he was changing my meter. They want to charge more during 'peak' usage time, to convince people to 'change usage habits' blah blah blah, 'green power' blah blah. Ultimately it's a money game.
If you can....change to "TIME OF USE" billing. SCE charges more during peak hours (10am - 6pm) but dirt cheap rates during nonpeak hours. The savings is huge--like several hundred per month!
SCE's Rate Schedule TOU-D-T is a seasonal time-of-use rate, with a level pricing structure (Level 1 is equivalent to Baseline Tiers 1 & 2, and Level 2 is equivalent to Baseline Tiers 3–5). TOU-D-T is applicable to customers eligible for service under Schedule D and D-CARE. Lower rates may be achieved with TOU-D-T, if the customer reduces on-peak usage between 10 a.m. and 6 p.m. weekdays, except holidays.
Source: http://www.sce.com/residential/rates/special-time-of-use.htm
I am lucky in that I have the old cheaper rate---SCE's Rate Schedule TOU-D-2--which is closed to new customer enrollment as of October 1, 2009...but the one above is available for all customers.
SCE's Rate Schedule TOU-D-T is a seasonal time-of-use rate, with a level pricing structure (Level 1 is equivalent to Baseline Tiers 1 & 2, and Level 2 is equivalent to Baseline Tiers 3–5). TOU-D-T is applicable to customers eligible for service under Schedule D and D-CARE. Lower rates may be achieved with TOU-D-T, if the customer reduces on-peak usage between 10 a.m. and 6 p.m. weekdays, except holidays.
Source: http://www.sce.com/residential/rates/special-time-of-use.htm
I am lucky in that I have the old cheaper rate---SCE's Rate Schedule TOU-D-2--which is closed to new customer enrollment as of October 1, 2009...but the one above is available for all customers.
yerboyblue
Member
Ya I think they put me on that time of use billing automatically. Got me that month for an extra 3/400 bucks.
B
BrnCow
Maybe set up a battery system like used on a solar panel system and run the house or part of the house off batteries during the day and charge the batteries at night or whenever the cost is lowest. If you could just use the batteries for the ac it would cut usage.
yerboyblue
Member
that there is a lotta batteries!
New solar setups dont use batteries....or so I am told.
yerboyblue
Member
I would run solar but that would assume that there was sun available where I live haha
Cali activist want smart meters banned July 20/12
Cali activist want smart meters banned July 20/12
RAY SUAREZ: Next: a follow-up to our story last Friday about an Austin, Tex., neighborhood that uses smart grid technology to track and control its energy consumption. Not everyone thinks that's a good idea.
NewsHour correspondent Spencer Michels reports on some California activists who like to see this device's banned.
SPENCER MICHELS: Fairfax, Calif., a small, hip, politically liberal, environmentally concerned town in Marin County, across the Golden Gate from San Francisco, it's the home of Valeri Hood, a landscaper and activist who decided that the local utility's decision to replace her traditional gas and electric meters posed a danger to her.
She doesn't want a new one, a so-called smart meter that reads how much energy is being used and transmits the figures to Pacific Gas & Electric via radio signals. PG&E has installed nine million smart meters in Northern Calif., part of a $2.2 billion program.
It has been touted as a way to save money and energy, because the transmitted information can be used to monitor home energy use. That allows residents to use appliances when demand is low, reducing their costs.
WOMAN: So, just walking door to door, putting these on the door hangers. They're not smart, they're not green, and they're not safe and they're not legal.
SPENCER MICHELS: Hood and her fellow activist, Mary Beth Brangan, believe wireless smart meters emit harmful electromagnetic radiation, a contention that has spurred a major debate and studies to back up both sides.
Hood and Brangan took up the fight against the smart meters, and started printing signs and petitions for several reasons.
VALERI HOOD, activist: PG&E has decided to do a wireless version, and they didn't need to be wireless. They could have been hardwired.
MARY BETH BRANGAN, Ecological Options Network: People have reported seizures. They have reported migraines. They have had trouble sleeping, heart problems, arrhythmias, a lot of symptoms from difficulties with smart meters.
VALERI HOOD: This was just pushed on our communities without any sort of input or education or anything. And it was, all of a sudden, you're going to get smart meters, whether you like it or not.
SPENCER MICHELS: They weren't alone. Environmentalists and others in several parts of the country have taken up the anti-smart meter cause, as utilities spend $29 billion to upgrade their networks and install the new meters.
Hood lobbied the Fairfax Town Council, and after several meetings, the council decided to ban the smart meters. The Marin County supervisors took a similar stand, outlawing new devices, at least for now. More than a dozen California cities and counties have passed such legislation.
EDWARD RANDOLPH, California Public Utilities Commission: They don't have the jurisdiction individually to create a smart meter-free zone, or whatever they want to call it.
SPENCER MICHELS: Edward Randolph is director of energy for the California Public Utilities Commission, the only agency, he says, that has jurisdiction over the devices. Randolph says the PUC pushed the utilities to install smart meters.
EDWARD RANDOLPH: The vast majority of all of the input and evidence is that, you know, society is going to benefit from the smart meters.
I mean, the energy-efficiency savings alone in the long term for the state of California is going to be a large economic benefit for most rate payers.
SPENCER MICHELS: When PG&E began installing smart meters in California six years ago, its executives never suspected it would cause such a fuss. They said they considered gas and electric meters simply tools of the trade.
The meters connect diverse power sources into an efficient system, argues Helen Burt, the chief customer officer for PG&E.
HELEN BURT, Pacific Gas & Electric: Well, a smart meter is really a basic building block of a smarter grid. And a smart grid is being built all over the United States to connect solar power and other pieces of intermittent renewable power into the electric system.
SPENCER MICHELS: While critics say the use of wireless technology contains a risk, Burt discounts it.
HELEN BURT: I will tell you, we know they're safe. We know smart meters are safe. I believe wireless technology is safe. I have no qualms whatsoever about the safety. You know, I probably have seven or eight wireless devices, two of which are probably with me today. So I think we live in a wireless world.
SPENCER MICHELS: Engineering Dean Emir Jose Macari of Sacramento State University also defends wireless technology. He was part of the California Council on Science and Technology, a team that reviewed the literature on electromagnetic emissions, including radio frequency waves, or RF, a study often cited by PG&E.
EMIR JOSE MACARI, Sacramento State University: There is no proof of any health impacts from RF. The World Health Organization put out a report in 2005 saying there is no evidence of any harms to human beings from these technologies.
SPENCER MICHELS: But they didn't say that harm wasn't possible?
EMIR JOSE MACARI: Correct. We continue to say maybe more studies are needed.
SPENCER MICHELS: Macari demonstrated for us how the emissions from a smart meter can be monitored. He says those emissions are very slight.
EMIR JOSE MACARI: So, I could also be measuring emissions on my cell phone.
SPENCER MICHELS: So, how does it compare?
EMIR JOSE MACARI: Well, this is so much higher.
SPENCER MICHELS: Really?
EMIR JOSE MACARI: But -- by 20 times higher than what a smart meter does.
SPENCER MICHELS: And he says the emissions tail off.
EMIR JOSE MACARI: As we measure right here, and as you measure it further and further, the signal goes down exponentially.
Still, opponents of smart meters, like Joshua Hart, continue their fight at the Public Utilities Commission and elsewhere. Hart founded Stop Smart Meters. And he says the studies PG&E cites conflict with others showing problems. He says no studies have been done on smart meters, per se, but research on cell phones is relevant.
JOSHUA HART, Stop Smart Meters: The National Institutes of Health have found changes in neurological chemistry because of exposure to wireless. There are hundreds of peer-reviewed articles that show impacts on human health and behavior at levels far below what the FCC guidelines indicate are permissible.
SPENCER MICHELS: Hart is calling for a halt to the technology, even though PG&E is 90 percent through installing the new meters.
JOSH HART: We think there should be an immediate moratorium on the technology, pending a series of independent hearings on the problems that have been identified. And this needs to be a national and international halt. And we need investigations.
SPENCER MICHELS: The movement against smart meters has been joined not just by environmentalists and leftists, but also by Tea Party activists, who see the meters as an invasion of privacy, since they collect data on people's electricity use that could indicate facts about their lifestyles.
JOSH HART: The smart meters reveal how many people are home, what time you wake up in the morning, what appliances you're using, even perhaps what television program you're watching. And this is all information that is extraordinarily valuable to third-party corporations.
SPENCER MICHELS: Do you sell the data to anyone?
HELEN BURT: Absolutely not.
SPENCER MICHELS: Do you share it with anyone?
HELEN BURT: No. Our customers own their data. We do not own their data.
SPENCER MICHELS: One thing Hart and his supporters have achieved is a provision that people who want to keep their old meters can do so, provided they pay a $75 fee and $10-a-month charges to opt out of the smart meter program.
MARY BETH BRANGAN: A lot of people consider it extortion to have to pay to not have something on your house that can harm you.
SPENCER MICHELS: PG&E's Burt says the company accepts the opt-out program, even though the numbers are small. But it means the utility must maintain two separate systems, at a cost.
HELEN BURT: We have got about five million households across the service territory. About 30,000 have elected to opt out. The rest of our customers are really engaged in a different way with the new technology.
SPENCER MICHELS: While that new technology remains controversial, a utility research group says about half of U.S. homes, 65 million, will have wireless meters within three years.
JEFFREY BROWN: In a blog post, Spencer further examines the dueling scientific claims about smart meters and whether they do or don't cause illnesses.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/science/july-dec12/meters_07-20.html?print
Cali activist want smart meters banned July 20/12
RAY SUAREZ: Next: a follow-up to our story last Friday about an Austin, Tex., neighborhood that uses smart grid technology to track and control its energy consumption. Not everyone thinks that's a good idea.
NewsHour correspondent Spencer Michels reports on some California activists who like to see this device's banned.
SPENCER MICHELS: Fairfax, Calif., a small, hip, politically liberal, environmentally concerned town in Marin County, across the Golden Gate from San Francisco, it's the home of Valeri Hood, a landscaper and activist who decided that the local utility's decision to replace her traditional gas and electric meters posed a danger to her.
She doesn't want a new one, a so-called smart meter that reads how much energy is being used and transmits the figures to Pacific Gas & Electric via radio signals. PG&E has installed nine million smart meters in Northern Calif., part of a $2.2 billion program.
It has been touted as a way to save money and energy, because the transmitted information can be used to monitor home energy use. That allows residents to use appliances when demand is low, reducing their costs.
WOMAN: So, just walking door to door, putting these on the door hangers. They're not smart, they're not green, and they're not safe and they're not legal.
SPENCER MICHELS: Hood and her fellow activist, Mary Beth Brangan, believe wireless smart meters emit harmful electromagnetic radiation, a contention that has spurred a major debate and studies to back up both sides.
Hood and Brangan took up the fight against the smart meters, and started printing signs and petitions for several reasons.
VALERI HOOD, activist: PG&E has decided to do a wireless version, and they didn't need to be wireless. They could have been hardwired.
MARY BETH BRANGAN, Ecological Options Network: People have reported seizures. They have reported migraines. They have had trouble sleeping, heart problems, arrhythmias, a lot of symptoms from difficulties with smart meters.
VALERI HOOD: This was just pushed on our communities without any sort of input or education or anything. And it was, all of a sudden, you're going to get smart meters, whether you like it or not.
SPENCER MICHELS: They weren't alone. Environmentalists and others in several parts of the country have taken up the anti-smart meter cause, as utilities spend $29 billion to upgrade their networks and install the new meters.
Hood lobbied the Fairfax Town Council, and after several meetings, the council decided to ban the smart meters. The Marin County supervisors took a similar stand, outlawing new devices, at least for now. More than a dozen California cities and counties have passed such legislation.
EDWARD RANDOLPH, California Public Utilities Commission: They don't have the jurisdiction individually to create a smart meter-free zone, or whatever they want to call it.
SPENCER MICHELS: Edward Randolph is director of energy for the California Public Utilities Commission, the only agency, he says, that has jurisdiction over the devices. Randolph says the PUC pushed the utilities to install smart meters.
EDWARD RANDOLPH: The vast majority of all of the input and evidence is that, you know, society is going to benefit from the smart meters.
I mean, the energy-efficiency savings alone in the long term for the state of California is going to be a large economic benefit for most rate payers.
SPENCER MICHELS: When PG&E began installing smart meters in California six years ago, its executives never suspected it would cause such a fuss. They said they considered gas and electric meters simply tools of the trade.
The meters connect diverse power sources into an efficient system, argues Helen Burt, the chief customer officer for PG&E.
HELEN BURT, Pacific Gas & Electric: Well, a smart meter is really a basic building block of a smarter grid. And a smart grid is being built all over the United States to connect solar power and other pieces of intermittent renewable power into the electric system.
SPENCER MICHELS: While critics say the use of wireless technology contains a risk, Burt discounts it.
HELEN BURT: I will tell you, we know they're safe. We know smart meters are safe. I believe wireless technology is safe. I have no qualms whatsoever about the safety. You know, I probably have seven or eight wireless devices, two of which are probably with me today. So I think we live in a wireless world.
SPENCER MICHELS: Engineering Dean Emir Jose Macari of Sacramento State University also defends wireless technology. He was part of the California Council on Science and Technology, a team that reviewed the literature on electromagnetic emissions, including radio frequency waves, or RF, a study often cited by PG&E.
EMIR JOSE MACARI, Sacramento State University: There is no proof of any health impacts from RF. The World Health Organization put out a report in 2005 saying there is no evidence of any harms to human beings from these technologies.
SPENCER MICHELS: But they didn't say that harm wasn't possible?
EMIR JOSE MACARI: Correct. We continue to say maybe more studies are needed.
SPENCER MICHELS: Macari demonstrated for us how the emissions from a smart meter can be monitored. He says those emissions are very slight.
EMIR JOSE MACARI: So, I could also be measuring emissions on my cell phone.
SPENCER MICHELS: So, how does it compare?
EMIR JOSE MACARI: Well, this is so much higher.
SPENCER MICHELS: Really?
EMIR JOSE MACARI: But -- by 20 times higher than what a smart meter does.
SPENCER MICHELS: And he says the emissions tail off.
EMIR JOSE MACARI: As we measure right here, and as you measure it further and further, the signal goes down exponentially.
Still, opponents of smart meters, like Joshua Hart, continue their fight at the Public Utilities Commission and elsewhere. Hart founded Stop Smart Meters. And he says the studies PG&E cites conflict with others showing problems. He says no studies have been done on smart meters, per se, but research on cell phones is relevant.
JOSHUA HART, Stop Smart Meters: The National Institutes of Health have found changes in neurological chemistry because of exposure to wireless. There are hundreds of peer-reviewed articles that show impacts on human health and behavior at levels far below what the FCC guidelines indicate are permissible.
SPENCER MICHELS: Hart is calling for a halt to the technology, even though PG&E is 90 percent through installing the new meters.
JOSH HART: We think there should be an immediate moratorium on the technology, pending a series of independent hearings on the problems that have been identified. And this needs to be a national and international halt. And we need investigations.
SPENCER MICHELS: The movement against smart meters has been joined not just by environmentalists and leftists, but also by Tea Party activists, who see the meters as an invasion of privacy, since they collect data on people's electricity use that could indicate facts about their lifestyles.
JOSH HART: The smart meters reveal how many people are home, what time you wake up in the morning, what appliances you're using, even perhaps what television program you're watching. And this is all information that is extraordinarily valuable to third-party corporations.
SPENCER MICHELS: Do you sell the data to anyone?
HELEN BURT: Absolutely not.
SPENCER MICHELS: Do you share it with anyone?
HELEN BURT: No. Our customers own their data. We do not own their data.
SPENCER MICHELS: One thing Hart and his supporters have achieved is a provision that people who want to keep their old meters can do so, provided they pay a $75 fee and $10-a-month charges to opt out of the smart meter program.
MARY BETH BRANGAN: A lot of people consider it extortion to have to pay to not have something on your house that can harm you.
SPENCER MICHELS: PG&E's Burt says the company accepts the opt-out program, even though the numbers are small. But it means the utility must maintain two separate systems, at a cost.
HELEN BURT: We have got about five million households across the service territory. About 30,000 have elected to opt out. The rest of our customers are really engaged in a different way with the new technology.
SPENCER MICHELS: While that new technology remains controversial, a utility research group says about half of U.S. homes, 65 million, will have wireless meters within three years.
JEFFREY BROWN: In a blog post, Spencer further examines the dueling scientific claims about smart meters and whether they do or don't cause illnesses.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/science/july-dec12/meters_07-20.html?print
