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    On your "symptoms".
    Saw something similar that stemmed from Neem oil allergy.
    The breakdown products of Neem, and the derivatives are mildly toxic, and some people are very affected. Some are not.
    Just a thought.
    "It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so."
    - Mark Twain

    "Plants do things for a reason, they don't just decide one day to get root rot or act funny." -Weedhound
    R.I.P

    A prudent question is one-half of wisdom. -Francis Bacon

    A wise man is superior to any insults which can be put upon him, and the best reply to unseemly behavior is patience and moderation. -Moliere


    You're behaving as if there is no hope. Someone musta told you you were hopeless and you believed them! That's it, isn't it? What you believe about yrself rests on a pile of someone else's shit! - Teddybrae

    Comment


      Originally posted by Weezard View Post
      On your "symptoms".
      Saw something similar that stemmed from Neem oil allergy.
      The breakdown products of Neem, and the derivatives are mildly toxic, and some people are very affected. Some are not.
      Just a thought.

      Thanks Weez.

      I tried to recollect whether or not any of these girls got sprayed, and I rarely use any neem products, not even in the soilless mix.

      I think in a real pinch, there's been a limited use of Azamax, and a bit more with both Spinosad and Gnatrol, though never close to harvest, and most are stated to be safe for human consumption of fruits and veggies, etc., but....

      I'd add what others have said about heat transforming any of these things during combustion, but I've had reactions to oral ingestion with the CBD flowers that I have, and have not been smoking any of those CBD flowers.

      That all said, I have no idea what the folks growing the CBD Hemp are using on their crops, and when I tried to call and email them earlier today, I failed to connect with them.

      I suspect, as I mentioned in an earlier message, this will be a multi-phased process; go to the canna lab and see if I'm, indeed, below .3% THC on the CBD Hemp flowers. If I am, and I should be, then I can hopefully, legally, take a sample to a higher tech lab that does mass spectrometry, and see -exactly- what is in their flowers, hopefully without breaking the bank.

      Months ago, when I spoke with someone at the source of the CBD Hemp, it was quite clear that they assumed folks were smoking their CBD flowers, not necessarily extracting. I was going to re-start that conversation with them, being clear to discuss washing of the product with solvents, versus 'smoking'.

      Who the fuck smokes straight CBD flowers, unless they're trying to instigate a conversation with the law in public?
      Last edited by moose eater; 01-22-2021, 02:21.

      Comment


        OK, any of y'all that have survived following along through these too-many pages, or who just arrived to the 'party', a humble and sincere apology and statement of empathy is in order.

        Those of you who have been battling other forms of aggressive and serious cancers; you've been battling hand-to-hand with grizzlies and polar bears. I've been battling angry, but mildly sedated piranha.

        I met with the radio-oncologist, and gathered a great deal of information.

        He's a calm, caring, I strongly suspect a personal religious or spiritual background, and he views non-conventional tx as happening concurrently with conventional tx's. (For those who haven't followed along with the anecdotal cases of physicians refusing to treat patients who used non-conventional therapies, or cutting them off upon finding out, THIS IS GREAT news.

        It's Seattle. I suspect Billings Montana and a less worldly or less compassionate Doc, it might have been a bit different.

        He's willing to treat my cancer. So I have the option of one of the best surgeons in the PNW, or a very qualified and well-respected
        radio-oncologist, who is also very well respected by that world-class surgeon..

        He stated that there's not 100% accuracy in the statement that once a person receives radiation, they can't go back for seconds if recurrence happens. He stated that if recurrence happens after radiation, they can do spot-specific radiation treatment with the Cyber-knife system.

        He said that even with my score of a Gleason 8, I probably have a 3% chance of dying from THIS cancer in the next 15 years, if untreated (Yes, Weez, thank you, and your words were shared with him, as well as your experiences, buzz; hell a number of you were in the meeting today). (*However, it should be noted that the period of degradation and pain that precedes untreated cancer mortality, is, in most cases, nothing to play around with, or invite in).

        I need to research further, in case I misunderstood, but I believe he stated that persons in my condition who undergo radiation, have a 35% chance of recurrence, and those who do surgery have a 65% chance of recurrence. Again, I need to look further into that, as that is counter to what I THOUGHT I knew. But it's not like there hasn't been 4 lanes of information traveling through my brain.

        We discussed the reports stating that close to 50% of older men who undergo hormone suppression therapy, never regain normal testosterone production or related libido. He stated that this outcome is more common for men in their 70s and 80s.

        I told him I don't want to live forever, as there have admittedly been times this life has sucked, but I have a teenage son and a wife who matter a great deal to me, and a lot of things to finish or do yet.

        He stated that for those who struggle regaining their normal production of testosterone, there is testosterone therapy to deal with that.

        He said that if we're to move forward with this, I would start with a hormone suppression injection here in the near future, and 3 months(+) later I would fly down for them to do a study of the prostate gland, to custom 'build' or manufacture the brachytherapy seeds (palladium), so they are able to cover the area properly. On rare occasions they have to add more, if the seeds initially provided leave an area vulnerable and not sufficiently covered, but again, this is fairly rare.

        After that, it would be 5 weeks (and I think he said 10" a day, 5 days per week), in radiation.

        He was calm, and calming in his delivery, he's a dog guy (double points), and the world class surgeon recommends him.

        We discussed my preference for the best of all worlds, and wanting quality of life AND to be rid of cancer.

        That's what I recall for now.

        It was a good meeting, and I felt calm enough afterward to plop some hash oil into my mouth, and a cautious dab of CBD oil extract residue remaining in the pan. Go ahead, ask me when the last time in my life was that I was more cautious about ingesting CBD extracts, than ingesting THC extracts. No, ask. NEVER. Up until recently. It's a brave new world.

        So now I'm a kid in the candy store, with just enough money in my pocket, or, more aptly, someone else' pocket, for ONE candy bar, and there's a couple choices, but I can only have one for now.

        Input and problem solving is welcome.
        ---------------------------------

        John Prine

        'Killing the Blues'

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgmbQnp_Sbk
        Last edited by moose eater; 01-22-2021, 03:01.

        Comment


          Mtg with Primary Care today, after the radio-oncologist. Went well.

          She's asking questions to keep everybody 'legally safe' re. the anxiety meds, but she trusts me, and she's a fine Doc.

          I'd told her before, that if suicidality is the issue, I've got numerous means here that don't involve pills, and, from professional and other experiences, the more commonly employed means are not always as effective as most think, sometimes/often leading to extended stays on life support, and oxygen tubes with liquid food, and hellacious bills for the family members of the person suffering hypoxia. If it were an active pursuit, there's WAY better means than Rx drugs. She knows I know that.

          Her primary concern was that the anti-anxiety meds are addictive (benzodiazepine drugs, whether Xanax, Ativan, Valium or what ever, are all physically addictive), and are some of the few drugs, to include alcohol addiction, for which cold-turkey withdrawal can lead to death, unless medically supervised. I assured her that the drug in question would be to have on-hand, in the event that another giant pulse rate increase strikes, and I can't contain it properly with the Hydroxyzine; bigger guns.

          She had her own crafty ways of trying to ascertain planning re. cancer tx, as a method of ascertaining any suicidality, and I could honestly tell her the options, the improvement to the news, and so on. It was after that, she was mostly agreeable re. most of what I needed. Kinda' humorous sometimes, as a former trained mh guy, when folks try to use our strategies to dig deeper, and the move is clear. Still... honesty happens.. It's respect, where deserved..

          It's cool meeting with 2 good Docs in one day, who are decent human beings, calming in their presentations, honest in their discussions, and open-minded. Better results than popping a Hydroxyzine, in my opinion.

          I almost felt normal afterward.

          In the end, what ever happens is what ever happens, but at this time, I believe I have one of the finest teams of physicians I have had; ever!! Good folks! Skilled, compassionate, calming, straight-shooters, who didn't leave a pile of turds on my concurrent non-conventional therapies.

          I referenced several studies or reviews for each of them, including the recent NIH review re. THCa and pancreatic cancer tumors in mice.

          No Actigall for the gall stones at this time. We reviewed the side-effects, and it read like a doubling down of cancer treatment effects; nausea, headaches, dizziness, diarrhea, etc. So we figure we'll save those drugs until after the cancer's properly dealt with, and in the interim, the plant-based diet and recent proper lowering of my cholesterol will show us if my bile in the gall bladder is still strong enough to get to task on these buggers.

          I suspect that at this time, she's going out of her way not to give me too much graphic news that might affect a heart rate, so when I asked (admitting I haven't seen the scans) what the density of gall stones is, telling her that, based on the sensation when they've been irritated, I was guessing that they had a sizable community happening in there. She nodded.

          Told her when she returns from out of town, she'll likely find me quivering on her door-step. She smiled.

          Now I just need to figure out how to either get her to move closer to the radio-oncologist and the urology surgeon in Seattle, or them to her, or, I told my wife, maybe I need to look into a small airplane.

          ------------------------------------------------------

          Allman Bros

          'Sail Away'

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uH9DXcVtdxQ
          Last edited by moose eater; 01-22-2021, 02:24.

          Comment


            When You catch yourself putting your salad in the microwave, you're medicine's probably working.

            Edit: And when you write 'you're,' intending to write 'your' instead, that's another good indicator.

            -----------------------------------------------------------

            Gregg Allman, Dicky Betts, Warren Haynes, and a shadowy figure on the right

            Allman Bros Blues Band

            (Acoustic) 'Melissa' with G. Allman on 12-string.

            Old traveling and hitch-hiking music

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggeab0lKz2c

            RIP
            Last edited by moose eater; 01-22-2021, 04:47.

            Comment


              Originally posted by Weezard View Post
              On your "symptoms".
              Saw something similar that stemmed from Neem oil allergy.
              The breakdown products of Neem, and the derivatives are mildly toxic, and some people are very affected. Some are not.
              Just a thought.
              Better re-confirmation.

              I'd done a conservative dose of my own THC extract a bit ago, dipping from a capsule with a gum brush, with no notable negatives.

              Went back a couple minutes ago and dipped a finger into the tiny amount of remaining CBD extract, and had a nearly immediate effect, albeit relative to the size of dose, which was small.

              That's, again, an immediate enough response that I seriously doubt it's any sort of unique reaction to CBD, but rather something that is immediately available upon ingestion and that's rarely THC or CBD.

              Possibly neem, or ???????

              Should have alternative CBD on-hand, from a reputable source, likely Monday.

              Found another source that is rated close to the one that's coming, and they offer a natural extraction, independent testing, broad spectrum, and (THE BEST part) a 40% off coupon!! Deducted from a base price that I think was already less than the one that's coming.

              We'll see what that batch brings with it. I've had limited CBD, in far less potency/concentration in the past, but never had any negative reactions to CBD. Of course, our metabolisms are changing fairly regularly, too.

              Comment


                Your doing good with you're research.



                I received the same information re surgery after radiation treatment.
                “The sun will eclipse soon unless you sacrifice the prince consort to the goddess of the moon.”
                Hans Bornefeld

                Comment


                  Originally posted by buzzmobile View Post
                  Your doing good with you're research.



                  I received the same information re surgery after radiation treatment.
                  Thanks buzz.

                  You're saying that you were told a 35% chance of recurrence after radiation tx, but 65% (+/-) chance of recurrence, post-surgery?

                  I'm intending to phone the fellow's nurse back today, and see if he can meet one more time, for a period of maybe 1/3 of what we met for the other day, just to highlight and clarify 'bullet points', as the information I initially received was that, "if you want the whole package, greater odds at staying cancer-free, and a bit greater risk at some compromises to quality-of-life factor, then surgery. If you're looking at quality of life alone, then radiation."

                  Verbatim, though from a surgeon. An incredibly well-reputed surgeon, but a surgeon.

                  In light of the initial info. (almost accurate, but not quite) that following radiation, more or less saying it was a 1x deal, and recurrence meant chemo, that was an eye-opener to some extent, to hear the inverse, too. Made it more than a one-way street, ending in a dead-end alley.

                  I figure that between my predominant Irish lineage, and the German side not being far behind, nearly any time I hear something that changes course for me, or that might, bad or good, sometimes indifferent, I need to hear it a 2nd (sometimes a 3rd) time.

                  I suspect my insurance co. will come to resent that personality trait, or learning deficit, in short order.

                  Edit: Meant to apologize for burning through my rep account again.

                  --------------------------------------------

                  Black Crowes

                  'Oh Sweet Nuthin'

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lf9-BCix4io

                  A beauty....
                  Last edited by moose eater; 01-22-2021, 18:16.

                  Comment


                    Left calf and ankle cramped most of the night. Again, I suspect either a reaction to decreased/ceased CBD, for the moment, or, an equally plausible explanation, is that the 2-1/2 to 3 months of extended slumber, led to a decompression of my current issues, identified as being a nerve (or 2) at L4-L5, though the spine folks I trust agree with me, that this should likely wait until after cancer tx.

                    The fact is that even under controlled circumstances, the body resents being cut upon and cast into needs of immediate and significant repair... It's essentially a controlled assault. The patient is being 'injured' (stabbed repeatedly) for a more poetic or dramatic description.

                    So, it seems the order of progress here will be cancer tx, then spine (or gall stones, if they're ignoring their de facto eviction, served by the diet and related changes), and, if my insurance is still a reality, and my body's holding together, the left shoulder.

                    Otherwise, as stated, a return call to the recent radio-oncologist, to see about a remedial repeat course in what was discussed yesterday, and the bullet points.

                    I ate no Hydroxyzine last night; not on purpose, really, just realized in the middle of the night that I was waking up more often.

                    I did, however, with lungs feeling pretty good, have a few puffs on a joint of some Indica. Possible that the first waking, about 1-5 hrs or so into sleep, was the result of the declining buzz from that.

                    I've become such a 'cheap date,' that last night, after a single 6-hour, no-name Sudafed, I was singing positive stuff aloud, wandering through the house and chores, with the ^ energy and outlook of the first half of a decent Dexedrine buzz.. My German Shepherd seemed concerned with the sudden up-tick in positivity, cocking her head slightly to the side, and perking her ears forward.

                    We'll see tonight what kind of magic can be worked for these sleep and sine issues. No more Sudafed unless absolutely necessary. Hell, I can't even drink coffee any more.

                    Town mission today, and after no store runs, per se', in the last 11 days (+/-, immediately before I flew out to Seattle, last week), there's more than ample errands and stops.

                    Edit: re. the increasing list of bizarre, repeated, 'new symptoms,' of late, coughing to try and cleans a thin layer of film in the bronchia area, and intentionally coughing hard enough to achieve that, particularly while laying prone with the cough causing a partial sit-up, there comes a searing, and I mean -searing- pain on the left side of the back, near the top of the arm-pit, but on the shoulder blade side, ironic or not, located right about where a skin tag is located, like a direct line running to the tag. Totally new reaction and phenomenon. What ever is happening in that moment, it lights up that nerve stoutly enough to cause a momentary yell, and skipping of a breath. My wife thinks it might be a displaced nerve, which, with the amount of significant weight loss, and changing of muscle mass, i guess could've gotten lost in the move?
                    ----------------------------------------------------

                    Kenny Wayne Shepherd

                    'Everything is Broken'

                    Gettin' there, anyway....

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JVkHbJE4_o
                    Last edited by moose eater; 01-22-2021, 17:00.

                    Comment


                      My wife thinks it might be a displaced nerve, which, with the amount of significant weight loss, and changing of muscle mass, i guess could've gotten lost in the move?
                      this sounds reasonable from my perspective.

                      although never overweight, i did lose about 15% - from 180 to 155 - after switching to low carb/healthy fat diet in 2018.

                      i had been doing 100 pushups a day - responding to a thread challenge here on icmag in maybe 2015? - and then after starting to lose visceral fat, my left shoulder was clicking. i find now in 2021 that has stopped and i can do pushups again without problem.

                      also, i had sciatica for about 6 weeks in my left hip/leg - and that has also resolved to a nothing burger.

                      zero sugar, low carb, healthy fat (less than keto levels), whole food, omnivore - i think this is the reason for my current good health. plus exercise.
                      Bud Toaster, Model 15 version 1 --> The Herbal Cube, Model 15 version 4.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by BudToaster View Post
                        this sounds reasonable from my perspective.

                        although never overweight, i did lose about 15% - from 180 to 155 - after switching to low carb/healthy fat diet in 2018.

                        i had been doing 100 pushups a day - responding to a thread challenge here on icmag in maybe 2015? - and then after starting to lose visceral fat, my left shoulder was clicking. i find now in 2021 that has stopped and i can do pushups again without problem.

                        also, i had sciatica for about 6 weeks in my left hip/leg - and that has also resolved to a nothing burger.

                        zero sugar, low carb, healthy fat (less than keto levels), whole food, omnivore - i think this is the reason for my current good health. plus exercise.
                        Thanks BT.

                        Yes, and that shoulder in particular, suffered an ignorance injury, maybe 15 years ago or so; likely tore a rotator cuff, maybe quite well; I was squatting under the canopy in my truck, and was loading up a moose, having just flown in from my friend's in the bush, and rather than turning sideways, to move this 125-135 lb. piece of neck, brisket and back, all joined as one piece from a 90-degree off-set 'sheer strength position' (upper back, upper brisket, and lower neck, from a larger young bull), I tried to move it by jerking it sideways, straight in-line with the shoulder, from the squatting position, and it went poorly..

                        Ignorance in haste and excitement, but it would've taken additional shifting in there for this nerve to get involved. Still, as you say, quite possible.

                        I've eaten whole grains, low carb, no refined sugars, no white flours, white noodles, etc., etc for about 11 years now.

                        The thing that got away from me briefly this last later spring and summer, with C-19 and isolation, was we went on a modest tamale binge, often eating ONE tamale in red sauce or green sauce for breakfast, then ONE for lunch, and ONE for dinner (yes, we DIG tamales, my younger son and I).

                        With carbs, even if they're clean, non-refined, complex carbs, is that too much is still too much. A little bit is good, too much provides the same outcomes. So it was a matter of moderations, changing metabolism, and that may have been influenced by other factors.

                        I'd done pretty good at keeping the weight off back 11 years ago; lost 70 lbs. in 70 days; I was younger and healthier then.
                        This time was about 43 lbs in 70 days.

                        As we get older, bringing our metabolism back on line, takes more out of us. Especially when done rapidly, which can come with side-effects that aren't desirable, such as the gall stones accelerating in formation.

                        I had a sense back then, the first time when I was first dx'ed, that this was a trick of self-discipline that my body would likely only tolerate so many times; heart and other organs pay sometimes when doing these things.

                        Each of our metabolisms change or morph differently as we age; some faster and some slower. What we thought we knw about our capacities isn't always on the mark further down the road.

                        When I was first dx'ed as Type II, I could get up at night and eat 8-10 servings of watermelon, and not kick the glucose to the moon. I thought it had something to do with enzymes or something in the melon. Nope. My then-Doc told me he had patients who couldn't eat watermelon, that it wasn't the melon, it was me.

                        Turns out that to some extent, all through life, just as Socrates and Jung advised, we're still getting to know ourselves, even if we've been paying relatively close attention.

                        I can still eat a bit of watermelon, and a good crisp ripe red seedless melon is manna in my view. But I'm WAY past the tolerating 8-10 servings with no effect. That guy left the neighborhood.

                        ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                        Hot Tuna

                        Covering Barry McGuire's 'Eve of Destruction'

                        From the 'Pair a Dice Found' Lp

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUSda7cajq0

                        Comment


                          Shaved 2 x's for the silicone P100 mask in prep for the town trip, minutes away; once with electric to knock the shrubs down, then the hand razor to take care of any stubble that might interfere with the mask sealing well.

                          I have to do my second re-entry to Alaska COVID test today, heading to the airport for that, in between arriving flights, to avoid traffic.

                          I don't view the COVID testing area at the airport as an especially clean place; hung curtains forming temporary small cubicles, and one person in, then out, and next person in, with scant time between folks, and the curtain likely interfering a bit within the airport's otherwise decent air exchanges/ventilation.

                          Was +22 f. here, ~2 hours before sun-up, and we're supposed to reach at least +25 today, so, in pursuit of stopping some aspects of the psychotropic merry-go-round, I'm hoping to extract from some NON-DECARBED sugar trim from the last harvest, and/or some flowers, in limited amount, to derive or extract some THCa. If I can't be ingesting my CBC in decent dose until Monday or Tuesday, I can at least reduce some of the dulling that comes from too much THC, while upping the dose..... hopefully, and theoretically.

                          If in the end, it doesn't work, I can always write to NIH, and complain about their study.

                          --------------------------------------------------

                          Tedeschi-Trucks Band

                          Covering, 'Darlin' Be Home Soon'

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtG5bT13m8U

                          Comment


                            In light of the initial info. (almost accurate, but not quite) that following radiation, more or less saying it was a 1x deal, and recurrence meant chemo, that was an eye-opener to some extent, to hear the inverse, too. Made it more than a one-way street, ending in a dead-end alley.
                            That's what I was referring with my earlier comment. What I remember re. percentages was that EBRT and radical prostatectomy had similar outcomes as far as survival rates with the stage of my cancer. My parameters were least invasive/most effective. I rolled the dice and took the leap and whatever cliche fits is what happened.
                            “The sun will eclipse soon unless you sacrifice the prince consort to the goddess of the moon.”
                            Hans Bornefeld

                            Comment


                              Saw the same stats.
                              Also saw that radiation turns the area to mush so is a one shot thing for remission. Can later be used to shrink mets, but not remission.
                              On the other hand, recurrence after surgery is treatable with radiation.
                              My surgeon wanted to irradiate the prostate bed and feed me chemo post surgery as a just in case. I declined.

                              Why?
                              PC grows too slowly for chemo to be effective.
                              And radiation seed RICs (radiation induced cancers), that pop up after 15-20 years.


                              His goal was to prevent recurrence regardless of the damage it might cause me.
                              Surgeons are rated by their success rate, yah?
                              When I got serious about the RSO I made no other changes.
                              Being in the rare position of having a marker, (PSA) to chart progress, I eliminated other variables. Was not that risky all things considered.
                              Knowing that the information gathered could be gold to other patients, I documented it all with lab tests and photos.
                              The photos are from my dog's mammary cancer remission.
                              My medical record and my vets notes may take the fear factor out of some folk's decisions.

                              Been 14 years and change. So far, so good.
                              Aloha,
                              Weeze
                              "It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so."
                              - Mark Twain

                              "Plants do things for a reason, they don't just decide one day to get root rot or act funny." -Weedhound
                              R.I.P

                              A prudent question is one-half of wisdom. -Francis Bacon

                              A wise man is superior to any insults which can be put upon him, and the best reply to unseemly behavior is patience and moderation. -Moliere


                              You're behaving as if there is no hope. Someone musta told you you were hopeless and you believed them! That's it, isn't it? What you believe about yrself rests on a pile of someone else's shit! - Teddybrae

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by buzzmobile View Post
                                That's what I was referring with my earlier comment. What I remember re. percentages was that EBRT and radical prostatectomy had similar outcomes as far as survival rates with the stage of my cancer. My parameters were least invasive/most effective. I rolled the dice and took the leap and whatever cliche fits is what happened.
                                Thanks, buzz.

                                My intensity and hopes may have the surgeon passing me off to the radio-oncology team, or hoping to.

                                I went to the best I could find in my network, after hearing the remarks of folks who I now, somewhat privately, regard as 'bush league.'

                                Yes, as Weez says, surgeons are rated by their success rates, and larger hospitals with more money, more specialized teams, state-of-the-art NEW Multi-Million $$ equipment, etc., are absolutely going to have better successes.

                                Those were some of the key factors in wide-ranging outcomes between clinics, per JAMA.

                                When we're watching tens of thousands of $$ fly across the table at a time, I figure $1,300 or $1,600 for a hotel room for a period, or for a month+ in a studio apt., if I decide to go with radiation, plus several hundred $ for some wholesome groceries from the nearby organic grub store, another couple hundred $ for the town car service, is all small change in the grand scheme of things, if it ends where I want it to.
                                -------------------------------------------

                                Full 25" interview with 'Country Joe' McDonald, re. the hippy days, Woodstock, the Peace & Love movement, and more. The more I hear from him, the more I respect and like him. Funny stories about how he ended up on stage at Woodstock, and how much Americans and westerners love to yell the word "FUCK!!" when encouraged.

                                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vqt4fq-VVcM

                                Comment

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