LED vertical scrog

[Chevy cHaze]

Wow insane stuff here Ichabod,
I like the idea of not being tied to floorspace a lot!
You grow trees, then shave one half away like they was a big kebab and then you tie them to the vert scree. Respect sir.
I wonder how this could work in a small tent and if it would be too hard to reach the plants when you can't move the lights away.
very nice!!!
CC

 

[Ichabod Crane]

Wow insane stuff here Ichabod,
I like the idea of not being tied to floorspace a lot!
You grow trees, then shave one half away like they was a big kebab and then you tie them to the vert scree. Respect sir.
I wonder how this could work in a small tent and if it would be too hard to reach the plants when you can't move the lights away.
very nice!!!
CC

What is even better is that I can move each plant around as well. I could even take it out of the flower room. Like the lights I like to have the ability to reconfigure when I and how I want with the plants. Even if it the last day of flower.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

A little bud action tonight.

These are at day 34 of flower. They are starting to put on a little weight and frost. Here are two random bud shots.





Here is a random cola at the top of a screen. Pretty full and why I added the extra light at the top.



And remember this about 8 inch cola? This picture was taken 12 days ago.



Well here it is at day 34. I switched sides to take the picture because the leaves on the other side were blocking the cola. Not bad for 12 days growth.

 

[bucketswithsoil]

Looking super good dude.....
That's killer for 12days....
I'm hopeing mines pack on some swell-age, it's been so long for me.....I can't tell if I'm ok for as far along I'm at...or if they should be bigger...????... Who knows...time shall tell ...
Good to see ya hanging around dude,don't like that one dildo get ya all worked up...I/we need ya around on here..... :friends:

 

[Ichabod Crane]

Looking super good dude.....
That's killer for 12days....
I'm hopeing mines pack on some swell-age, it's been so long for me.....I can't tell if I'm ok for as far along I'm at...or if they should be bigger...????... Who knows...time shall tell ...
Good to see ya hanging around dude,don't like that one dildo get ya all worked up...I/we need ya around on here..... :friends:

You will have to get a few runs to know what your plants will do. Like DHF said earlier I know what this strain does. And that is because I have run it now for 2 years.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

Today I got some new power cords. I purchased 100 of the cords. This should save me around 5 minutes assembly time per light. Since I don't have to strip the outer coating, cut back the fibers, then strip the wires, loosen 8 screws, and finally connect everything together.

Basically build a cord. Which was just connecting a plug end to a wire.

Anyway they cost about $1.60 each cut stripped and tinned to the length I wanted. The cost was $2.25 for the other materials and I still had to assembly the parts. So a cost drop of $0.65 per cord and a savings of 5 minutes. At $50 a hour for labor that puts the cost at $4.82 per cord. Or a drop of about $3.20.

Anyway the new cords. On the one I have put a connector on to test the fit.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

Last night was day 35 of flower.

The first thing I did was release the rove beetles. There were a lot in the breeding container. But it had developed mold on the feed. So I placed them in the grow near where the fungus gnats are the worst and let them go.

I figured the mold would draw the gnats to the breeder.



While I was in the grow I noticed the back plant in the room was bigger and denser than the middle plant. So I switched the positions of these two plants.

Remember I said I like to be able to move the plants when ever I want. Well this is one of the reasons I like them movable. Here you can see what I mean by I can move the plants.



While the two plants were being moved it allowed me to get to the back of the screen. I pulled a bunch of the dead or dying leaves. Most of these were the leaves I left when I put the plants into flower. Anyway they had to be cleaned up.



Now get in the way back machine and we can look at the plants on the first day of flower. Ah the good old days of 5 weeks ago. Here are the plants on day one of flower.



And here they are halfway threw flower. This picture was taken just before I switched the middle plant with the back plant.



I have been slowly bending the plants down and that is why the screen looks uneven. I need the light to get further in to the mass of foliage. Some of the colas are directly in front of other colas. And they wont get any light so bending them down helps the light get to the colas that are shaded.

Any way if I don't get on tomorrow Merry Christmas you bunch of scoundrels.

 

[packerfan79]

Merry Christmas Ichy

 

[Itsmychoice]

That is pretty badass that you can move them that easily especially if you had to deal with a problem or pest. Bailing wire is what I like for holding the tops where I want them. Do you have something that holds the top of the frame to the wall that you unhook to move them? You grow monsters, keep it up and Merry Christmas!

 

[Ichabod Crane]

That is pretty badass that you can move them that easily especially if you had to deal with a problem or pest. Bailing wire is what I like for holding the tops where I want them. Do you have something that holds the top of the frame to the wall that you unhook to move them? You grow monsters, keep it up and Merry Christmas!

Yes in the beginning I posted this picture. Maybe it was not clear. But I clip these to the screen. Some may not think this is important but I have had screens fall over into the lights late in flower. Not only will you loose some bud like I did but you can also start a fire. I burned the screen wires that are plastic coated.

 

[Mr. J]

That's pretty awesome. I had this plan to build a vertical trellis like that but 4 of them, framed with wood with platforms on the outside for holding pots, and on wheels. They would surround 2 vertical bare 1K HPS bulbs, or possibly 2 stacked cool tubes would work better, and I could roll everything anywhere I want to do whatever I need to do. That's the plan anyway, if I ever get around to it.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

That's pretty awesome. I had this plan to build a vertical trellis like that but 4 of them, framed with wood with platforms on the outside for holding pots, and on wheels. They would surround 2 vertical bare 1K HPS bulbs, or possibly 2 stacked cool tubes would work better, and I could roll everything anywhere I want to do whatever I need to do. That's the plan anyway, if I ever get around to it.

You should go to my vertical scrog thread. It goes into more depth on how these frames are built. I didn't use wood because of the wood could rot or have mold. So they are made with PVC pipe. The base that is on them allows me to move the plant with the screen.

If you are interested the link is in my signature below.

 

[DunHav`nFun]

Merry Ho Ho Ickster…...Best wishes from Fredville to you and yours for the Holidays......just wanted to stop in and applaud the versatility of your setup with the ability to work the plants front AND back , as well as move em around if need be for canopy management..... Gotta say.....

That kill-a-watt and par meter is fucking sweet to actually see how much wattage as well as plant light absorption `s available from the par meter …...gotta have the right tools ta do the right job.....Respect.....

Playin with those new lights and bein able to add 1 if needed without worry of heatgain or too much environment change is gonna take this lil hobby of ours to the next level once all the hiccups and learning curves are defined for LED`s to actually pump out what HID lighting has done for yrs , but without the heatgain and as much environmental control needed to make shit thrive and produce.....so let`s see then.....

1206 watts with let`s say assuming this is the 7' wall the plants are on , minus container and beginning of plant matter height , 42 sq ft +/- ?.....so less than 29 watts per sq ft coverage across the entire canopy , but this run most likely pump out well in excess of 3 lbs like last run comparably right Ick ?.....but...…

That`s with unlimited /unknown vegtime being the only X factor as far as runnin this setup perpetual , but again....what if this matters not with a separate veg area that lets em get big as they wanna get while waiting to go into bloom rooms...…

Don Juan Matuus usedta grow 3+ lb ers every 10-12 week cycle with extended vegtime before even putting em in the bloom rooms , so Icky.....You`ve renewed my faith in Vertical gardening my buddy...…

Ever since the new DE and Gavita fixtures came out back some yrs ago , Vertville went to Hell cuz yields caught up somewhat , but I gotta say after being retired from never runnin anything BUT bare bulbs hangin , my few lil headies runs with flat dirt grows have been nuthin but a major pain in the ass havin ta bend over ta tend everything with my old ass while thinkin lil simple flat dirt grows would be easy peasy ….Was I forever ignorant of such needs .....that said.....

I see more folks gettin seriously interested in vertical hung fixtures like yours for older ass folks like me without losin quality and quantity with ease to work the plants without bein scorched by MH and HPS bare bulbs as were the drawbacks of my history of croppin , and believe me I`ve got many battle scars , but I digress....

Sorry to be clogging yo thread Bro , but I`m waiting on shit to finish in the smoker while tryin to occupy between my ears that my boy just got deployed to Afghanistan because he`s gotta replace somebody ordered home on emergency leave due to family about to croak , and he`s the only 1 in his unit that has the same Gunner skills prepared on all that VR video game lookin bullshit on armored personnel carriers that patrol and guard convoys between bases....and I`m pretty fucked up about it , so please forgive my bullshit ok ?...…and lastly....

Merry Xmas again Bro....Thanks for all you do , and ya`ll say a prayer for my #1 son......

Peace.....DHF..... .......

 

[Ichabod Crane]

You tell that son thanks for protecting my family.

And you are not clogging my thread. The more input we get the easier it is to figure out all the different angles to maximize this style grow.

And hell yeah this style is so much easier to tend than flat on the floor.

I wont know yield till it is all done. And the quality is superior to floor. Just the fact that these plants are more mature going into flower alone makes for more mature bud size.

Love me some vert. I will have to remember to keep track of my trim and harvest time.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

OK I have more time to address this post more. Like most of DHF posts there is a lot here. And I need to address some of it.

Merry Ho Ho Ickster…...Best wishes from Fredville to you and yours for the Holidays......just wanted to stop in and applaud the versatility of your setup with the ability to work the plants front AND back , as well as move em around if need be for canopy management..... Gotta say.....

This is one of the big reasons I grow like this.
I don't know when or if my back will be sore from working. Because of this a set up where I don't have to bend over works best. One that if I need I can stand or sit on a bucket.

That kill-a-watt and par meter is fucking sweet to actually see how much wattage as well as plant light absorption `s available from the par meter …...gotta have the right tools ta do the right job.....Respect.....

This is not required but is a huge benefit when you are doing something new and never done before. It allows me to really compare different set ups.

Playin with those new lights and bein able to add 1 if needed without worry of heatgain or too much environment change is gonna take this lil hobby of ours to the next level once all the hiccups and learning curves are defined for LED`s to actually pump out what HID lighting has done for yrs , but without the heatgain and as much environmental control needed to make shit thrive and produce.....so let`s see then.....

There is heat gain but much much less. These lights will allow me to turn of just one light when it gets to hot for my AC to keep up. Environment control is huge when it gets hot. ANd turning of a few lights is huge. I could do that with my double stacked 1K's but that shut down 1/2 my lights in half my grow. This allows me to spread the other half that is left on out over the full canopy. That is huge.

1206 watts with let`s say assuming this is the 7' wall the plants are on , minus container and beginning of plant matter height , 42 sq ft +/- ?.....so less than 29 watts per sq ft coverage across the entire canopy , but this run most likely pump out well in excess of 3 lbs like last run comparably right Ick ?.....but...…

The full canopy covers 42 square foot. The height is around 7 feet. But like you said the pots are taking up the bottom of that 7 feet. And remember that for the first part of this grow I only had 960 watts. And that is another point about light management.
I saved 245 watts for about 5 weeks. Waste not want not.

That`s with unlimited /unknown vegtime being the only X factor as far as runnin this setup perpetual , but again....what if this matters not with a separate veg area that lets em get big as they wanna get while waiting to go into bloom rooms...…

This brings me to the veg time question. I am not really concerned about veg time. I mentioned above that this set up is easier to manage. But besides that is that it is more efficient in grow space management. Like you mentioned earlier I could put plants on the other wall. That doubles my grow space.

Don Juan Matuus usedta grow 3+ lb ers every 10-12 week cycle with extended vegtime before even putting em in the bloom rooms , so Icky.....You`ve renewed my faith in Vertical gardening my buddy...…

Vert may not be for everyone but I think it has it's place for sure. Maybe not the big plants like I grow but a doybled stacked setup sure would benefit from LEDs. And that would reduce veg time.

Ever since the new DE and Gavita fixtures came out back some yrs ago , Vertville went to Hell cuz yields caught up somewhat , but I gotta say after being retired from never runnin anything BUT bare bulbs hangin , my few lil headies runs with flat dirt grows have been nuthin but a major pain in the ass havin ta bend over ta tend everything with my old ass while thinkin lil simple flat dirt grows would be easy peasy ….Was I forever ignorant of such needs .....that said.....

I see more folks gettin seriously interested in vertical hung fixtures like yours for older ass folks like me without losin quality and quantity with ease to work the plants without bein scorched by MH and HPS bare bulbs as were the drawbacks of my history of croppin , and believe me I`ve got many battle scars , but I digress....

Lets talk about that quality. The buds and colas on the wall are better than the ones I grow on the floor. I don't think this is just because I dont have as much experience flat growing as I do vert growing. Some of it yes but all no. Another thing that reduces my flat grows on the floor is canopy management. I just can't get into the canopy to keep it flat like I can on the wall. And this leads to some long colas that are above the rest. So I have to move up the lights.
And then the lower buds suffer. Since I can easily get to the canopy on the wall I can tie back random colas here and there to keep the canopy fairly uniform so I don't have buds back 30 inches from the light.

Sorry to be clogging yo thread Bro , but I`m waiting on shit to finish in the smoker while tryin to occupy between my ears that my boy just got deployed to Afghanistan because he`s gotta replace somebody ordered home on emergency leave due to family about to croak , and he`s the only 1 in his unit that has the same Gunner skills prepared on all that VR video game lookin bullshit on armored personnel carriers that patrol and guard convoys between bases....and I`m pretty fucked up about it , so please forgive my bullshit ok ?...…and lastly....

Merry Xmas again Bro....Thanks for all you do , and ya`ll say a prayer for my #1 son......

Peace.....DHF..... .......

Lastly I want to talk about light penetration. I have talked about geotrophic and photrophic. Most people don't even think about how this affects your growth. So I would like to talk about this some more in detail.

In this grow the plants are geotrophic. Again that means they grow away from gravity. This is why I keep saying I have to bend the stems down to expose some colas that are shaded. This means my canopy is not quite as productive as it could be.

Here are a couple pictures that show how a phototrophic canopy looks. In the first you can see how deep this canopy is.



In the above photo you can see how deep the canopy is. It is quite a bit deeper than the canopy I have been following in this thread. So why is this important? Well lets look at this next picture.



In the above photo I am holding a 1 liter bottle of drip clean. On the bottle you can see that the light is on the bottom of the bottle. That is caused by over lapping light from (2) 1K HPS bulbs.

But we are dealing with LED. And that causes even more over lapping light. When you look at these light there are 450 diodes in on light and 6 lights in this room now. That means there are 2700 points of light.

So back to phototrophic verses geotrophic. Because geotrophic grows straight up I dont get the penetration like you would get from Phototrophic. The light only gets to one side of the cola verses all down one side. But it gets all down the sides and allows it to get farther in the canopy. It penetrates into the gaps of the canopy better.

It is not uncommon for the plant to grow how I don't want it to. It always seems to grow in dense spaces and spots that are thin. This happens even though I spread the colas out threw the screen. So that brings up the fact that I can put the colas where I want and get them to grow towards the light. This would prevent them from shading each other because I can spread them out in the beginning.

But this also requires more canopy management latter in the grow. The phototrophic plants tend to fall down when the buds get heavy. So this is one draw back to phototrophic. But if you do this correctly you can get more yield because you can have a denser canopy.

Anyone have different views or observations lets talk. I am open to other views that will improve my grow.

 

[Boocoodinkydow]

Impressive techniques, Ichabod. I’m watching closely!

I transitioned to a vert grow on an impulse with my present garden. Spreading the love of light along the full length of the plant is looking very promising.

Do you find indica strains respond well to the vert system as well? I guess more explicitly, are you able to stretch the indicas enough to get proficient use of the vertical lights? I’m at a disadvantage with my single cabinet perpetual grow. The 12/12 from seed light schedule robs the control of inducing flower stage. So far, the sativas I’ve grown have reached 48-56” which easily utilizes the full benefit of my 4’ vert led tubes but I have concerns about the upcoming indica stretching enough for the vert lights to be effective.

Any opinions or suggestions?

 

[Ichabod Crane]

Impressive techniques, Ichabod. I’m watching closely!

I transitioned to a vert grow on an impulse with my present garden. Spreading the love of light along the full length of the plant is looking very promising.

Do you find indica strains respond well to the vert system as well?

The way I grow no. They tend to stay to short and rake to long to get big enough to fill the screen. I find that a mix of both indica and sativa are best. The closer you get to just one or the other the worse they do. Sativa's are a nightmare to train during flower.

For my set up a 50/50 mix is best. But maybe on a stacked set up where you run shorter plants a indica would do better.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

Impressive techniques, Ichabod. I’m watching closely!

I transitioned to a vert grow on an impulse with my present garden. Spreading the love of light along the full length of the plant is looking very promising.

Do you find indica strains respond well to the vert system as well? I guess more explicitly, are you able to stretch the indicas enough to get proficient use of the vertical lights? I’m at a disadvantage with my single cabinet perpetual grow. The 12/12 from seed light schedule robs the control of inducing flower stage. So far, the sativas I’ve grown have reached 48-56” which easily utilizes the full benefit of my 4’ vert led tubes but I have concerns about the upcoming indica stretching enough for the vert lights to be effective.

Any opinions or suggestions?

Going back over this you added more.

I still use HPS in veg. I have some bare 600 watt HPS bulbs. I use these to get more stretch from the plants.

Let me go over how I shape the plants with light.

First is the bare HPS. I hang it real high to get the more indica plants to stretch. I would not do this to a stretchier plant because it causes to much stretch and makes it hard to fill a screen. But on a idica it spreads things out so I don't have to take so much off the plant. And that will speed the plant along to flower much faster.

Now on stretchier plants I want compact growth. This means more light needs to be applied all along the plant. So I put the bulb to the side of the plant or the LED. You can see that in this photo of before I put the plants in this thread into flower.



I also use the light on the side to keep the plants from dying back at the bottom. It is hard for the light to get threw a 6 foot tall plant. So that make a side light useful to prevent the bottom of the plant from dying off.

 

[Boocoodinkydow]

Thanx much. Some good pointers!!

 

[hayday]

I'm curious Icky,why did you get away from the circular orientated grow method? Is it on account of plant numbers?
I would think you would get more from your plants with multiple points of light and light them up from all directions. No arguing your results though,you're growing giants