LED vertical scrog

[Ichabod Crane]

I have noted over the years, that high feed levels will first present as K deficiency, before there is a little spotting. Perhaps never getting to over feed signs, or they mingle with the K signs too easily. With 900ppfd you need high feed though, it's actually over some maximum recommendations.

My notes might be useless to you, with such different feeds. It would be interesting to see the run-off EC though.

It might be excess sodium at the core of it all. It pushes out K then Ca then Mg. Adding cal-mag like stuff may increase N, pushing the K out further. While lowering it's share of the anions. I'm guessing that would be quite noticeable, following the Ca-Mg addition. I think I have seen it myself, as we are perhaps fighting the same battle. My impatience is my biggest opponent though. I'm flushing them down to a root EC of 20 right now, basic feed, to see a few days of the problem developing without me putting so much extra in, that it's no different to just increasing my basic feed.

Leds at 50,000 lux (~800ppfd) is hard work. You are doing better than me if I'm honest. I browned a few hairs at 4 weeks. Undeniably over fed, and likely to taste off to my palette. I don't know what I was thinking..

I don't believe it is excess nutrients pushing out the K, Ca, Mg. But I have been wrong before. And I do believe I am feeding to heavy.

And the Cal/Mag nutrient I added has not nitrogen in it and is why I used that one. I only plan on giving it one shot of cal/mag. I am already at day 45 out of 70. Really just 68 for this strain. Since I will be flushing for a week that only gives me another 18 days to feed them. But I will have to see what happens to say for sure 100%.

I know this feed mix is not perfect but will get me across the finish line.

So When I went into the grow I took a few better pictures for DHF and others of the calcium deficiency. These are better pictures and show the problem better. I was just trying to show it was on the newest growth on the bud. But it didn't show up as well as it did on some of the slightly older leaves. These picture are still new leaves since they went into flower but are still like about 30-35 days old leaves.





I know how hard it is to tell the problems with a plant with just a few leaves. Especially when using a camera that does not show the colors as well as standing next to the plant. I have the benefit of looking at hundreds of leave very quickly. So don't think I don't appreciate the comments. I understand you can not see what I do all the time. And I am always learning stuff from posters here.

So thanks guys for the comments.

 

[420ish]

awesome thread as are all of your threads.very informative and easy to understand.i wish i had found this thread a few days ago.i just loaded two plants in my flower room.i could have tried leaving the leaves on while thinning out.i trim and bend and twist like you but do not leave any thing on close to the main stem.i only average between 11 and 14 per plant using 200 to 320 watts per plant.i am only using my 12 plants now so 6 in veg and 6 in flower. one finishing every week or two perpetual.
what kind of lights are you using now?drivers?temp?
i still use my cxb 3590s and just bought a few king brite 320 watt 3 board quantum board knock offs.
i would prefer to run 3 at 200 watts or so like my 4 cob cxb's and run more for better spread.the ones i bought are 3500k with ir and uv and far reds.
thanks for the time and effort doing your thread!over the years i have learned alot from you and dhf.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

awesome thread as are all of your threads.very informative and easy to understand.i wish i had found this thread a few days ago.i just loaded two plants in my flower room.i could have tried leaving the leaves on while thinning out.i trim and bend and twist like you but do not leave any thing on close to the main stem.i only average between 11 and 14 per plant using 200 to 320 watts per plant.i am only using my 12 plants now so 6 in veg and 6 in flower. one finishing every week or two perpetual.
what kind of lights are you using now?drivers?temp?
i still use my cxb 3590s and just bought a few king brite 320 watt 3 board quantum board knock offs.
i would prefer to run 3 at 200 watts or so like my 4 cob cxb's and run more for better spread.the ones i bought are 3500k with ir and uv and far reds.
thanks for the time and effort doing your thread!over the years i have learned alot from you and dhf.

If you followed my vert scrog thread I did what you are doing. It worked out well so should be no problem with what you are doing. 11-14 is still a good number.

The lights I designed and built myself. I wanted the light to be spread out more than what was available in decent LED chips. I also wanted them to be modular so I could move them around and change up the light patterns.

I like the smaller wattage lights to. As they get bigger you run into some times having to much light that is wasted. So I agree 200 watts is a good number for a light.

The lights are just Samsung 301B diodes in 3000 kelvin run on Meanwell drivers. They run around 2.55 micro moles per joule. The bigger lights run at a lower efficiency. I don't remember off hand what thought.

Glad you like my threads and have learned from them in the past. That is what they are for so at least I did something right. Now to just get the feed dialed in. lol

 

[420ish]

i have some of the same problems with jacks under the leds.some strains have problems under the leds and some dont.i have a critical mass that looks perfect running jacks around 1.2 ec and my only other strain at the moment is northern blue that gets the same problem as you are showing.the two i added a couple days ago are one of each and both have no problems when put in(which has not been the case with the northern blue the last 5 plants).
i do end up getting some yellowing leaves since my veg space is too small and i cant do the vertical light on the taller plants,only over head lighting.going to a 4 cob to 8 cob light per plant even dialed down at the beginning of flower causes that.i have retooled some of my oldest cxb lights that are driven by individual 50 watt drivers on the bigger heatsink usa heatsinks into 6 cob lights for bigger plants.

 

[420ish]

here are the two i just put in.i am nowhere near your level of thinning out and removing budsites.not doing enough stil bites me in the ass every once in a while like last week.
the one on the left is critical mass and the one on the right is northern blue

 

[Ichabod Crane]

[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=82015&pictureid=2000003&thumb=1]View Image[/url] here are the two i just put in.i am nowhere near your level of thinning out and removing budsites.not doing enough stil bites me in the ass every once in a while like last week.
the one on the left is critical mass and the one on the right is northern blue

The one on the left should yield very well from what I can see.

Not a lot of people trim as much as I do. That is one of the reasons why I am doing thread. To show people it is OK to trim heavy in the beginning and still get good yield with better quality.

Looking good.

 

[420ish]

actually they both should yield well.that is the biggest northern blue i have started .i hit 14 oz on one that wasnt that big before.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

Today was clean up day. I pulled the plants out and pulled dead or dying leaves off the back of the plants. I also swept up where the plant racks where.

Here is the first plant moved away from the wall.



And here are all three moved away from the wall.



When I moved them out I turned all but one light off so I didn't blind myself by accident.

After putting the plants back in place I noticed some of the colas were hanging down. I had to clip two up because they were hanging. One made it stick out to far from the others. The other dropped down and shaded other buds. In the next photo you can see one. It is in the far back near the top. I moved it up after this photo.



And after all that work here is what I removed from the plant and swept up.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

I found this guy when I was watering. I think he was lost since he is on the grow bag. When I started watering it ran around the pot to the back away from me. Been a couple weeks since I let them go. I swept up a bunch of dead ones yesterday.

 

[unclefishstick]

is that a "self identifies as a lady" bug?

 

[Ichabod Crane]

is that a "self identifies as a lady" bug?

No it is a bi lady bug.

 

[pongster]

No it is a bi lady bug.

it's all just too complicated these days =)

keep them updates coming, you are my morning coffeeweed newspaper
thanks for sharing brother,
cheers

 

[Ichabod Crane]

it's all just too complicated these days =)

keep them updates coming, you are my morning coffeeweed newspaper
thanks for sharing brother,
cheers

You must be leading a exciting life if this is the morning high point. lol. I mean we are talking about a lady bug.

 

[pongster]

You must be leading a exciting life if this is the morning high point. lol. I mean we are talking about a lady bug.

can't complain brother; been fortunate to be on monday morning smoking weed and posting here, so i'm grateful =)

btw those vertical scrog racks can handle so much weight! awesome stuff

cheers

 

[Ichabod Crane]

can't complain brother; been fortunate to be on monday morning smoking weed and posting here, so i'm grateful =)

btw those vertical scrog racks can handle so much weight! awesome stuff

cheers

They don't hold enough. I always want more. lol. Plus I had to add to one foot screens to the top.

Funny thing is when I moved them the other day to sweep were they were they we top heavy and wanted to fall forward. They did need watering but I didn't want to sweep up mud haha. And that is why they have the clips to hold them to the wall.

I did mess up a little and leave them a little thin in the middle. You will see when I start stripping the fan leaves what I mean. But plants don't always do want I want. Typical women right?

 

[OrgAeroMan]

Looks awesome, Ichabod! For some reason I thought this was an old thread, super glad it's not! Subbed

 

[Ichabod Crane]

Looks awesome, Ichabod! For some reason I thought this was an old thread, super glad it's not! Subbed

I have a old thread called Vertical Scrog. This one is LED vertical Scrog so I can see why you thought that.

Glad you made it.

 

[OrgAeroMan]

I love the flexibility of the light setup, I think I might have to try something like that. Space, as always, is at a premium here and that may be the solution during summertime when I usually expand. The 4x4 takes up like 1/3 of my workshop. It also looks way easier to water, train and see etc. than the back of a 4x4. How long do you veg? Are they all on the same schedule, or do you stagger the harvests?

 

[Ichabod Crane]

I love the flexibility of the light setup, I think I might have to try something like that. Space, as always, is at a premium here and that may be the solution during summertime when I usually expand. The 4x4 takes up like 1/3 of my workshop. It also looks way easier to water, train and see etc. than the back of a 4x4. How long do you veg? Are they all on the same schedule, or do you stagger the harvests?

I am not sure how long I veg. I just grow extra in the veg and grab them as I need them. They don't have to be all the same strain. That is a benefit of this style. Because they get tied to the rack you can train the faster growers back to the screen if they get to big.

It does take some practice at first and a understanding of what the plant will do in flower. You do have to kind of judge how big it will get in flower so you don't run out of screen. Been there done that and it sucks when they get to big.

I think it is way easier than flat on the floor. On the floor is like you said hard to get to the back of unless it is open.

If you have questions ask away. If I don't know I am sure someone reading would know. There is a lot of lurkers reading along and they may know.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

At day 49 now. Time is just booking along. Just 21 days till we are done.

So as I do every week I will post the first days picture first.



Now remember I switched the middle and the back plants part way threw flower. So keep that in mind when looking at the next picture if you are looking closely.

So here is day 49 of flower.



Finally here is a bud shot. Looks like a little fox tailing going on. So I moved the light back as far as I can which is 22 inches.

But the buds are looking good. Starting to get that final swell. They are shooting out a few more pistils