Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Indoor Vertical Grow Systems 101

Collapse
This is a sticky topic.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Indoor Vertical Grow Systems 101

    Okay so first a little background:
    I wrote the original thread at another forum over 3 years ago. Clearly since then, vertical growing has exploded with MJ gardeners. I still feel there is a need for a collected, logical breakdown of how these systems work, and where to see the best examples of each. To that end, I am revising the entire thread to be current and relevant. Please bear with me as it takes shape. Constructive criticism and additional links are appreciated, but give me a couple days to get my initial draft in place and sorted before you start tearing me a new one!

    Big thanks to Heath for archiving my original thread! Wouldn’t have the motivation to do this without it!
    Ok on to the good stuff…

    Indoor Vertical Grow Systems 101
    Introduction
    Due to the fact that many people know very little about vertical grow setups, I have attempted to lay out the basics here! I am no expert, and don't claim to be, so if you see something incorrect, or have something to add, by all means speak up! Credit for most of this information goes to a lot of different people. I have simply put everything in my own words in an attempt to condense it here. I will edit the post over time to reflect current info. As this is simply a 101 thread, I will not go into great depth about the nuance of each system, simply how they work on a basic level. I will, however, add links in each section to grows that are good examples of the type of Vertical in question.

    For the sake of this discussion, indoor vertical grow systems can be defined as:

    Grow setups in which one or more bulbs is hung vertically, with no reflector. In all but Stadium style Verticals, the plants are arrayed around the bulb/s, in a 360 degree wall of green, which then grows inward towards the bulb/s. This eliminates the use of costly reflectors. Stadium style grows make excellent use of vertical space in the same way bleachers do in a stadium, instead of a 360 wall of green. The lights are hung vertically along the center aisle, while the plants sit on the “bleachers”. The nature of these setups creates far more square footage of canopy when compared to a traditional flat setup with the same footprint. Vertical setups, while initially intimidating, are compatible with most any style of growing, from organic, to soil/soilless, and hydroponics of all flavors. Vertical setups have been proven to work on both small and large scales. Whether you Do It Yourself, or buy a commercial unit, once set up properly, they really perform!

    Indoor vertical grow systems generally fall into 4 categories. These are Vertical SOG, Vertical SCROG, Stadium/Coliseum Style Grows, and Tree/Bush Grows.



    I created this image years ago. Even then I understood that it doesn't represent the entire picture. I am creating a new file that better represents canopy growth and garden volume, to make a better comparison. I will post it here when finished.


    The remainder of the thread will continue based on the assumption that, all other things being equal, vertical bulbs will outperform horizontal ones. If you wish to debate that topic, there is a sticky in the Vert forum, that takes my explanation further, and has alot of great discussion on the topic. Check it out:
    Benefits of Vertical Growing
    My Threads
    Indoor Vertical Grow Systems 101
    Macro Attack

    #2
    Vertical SOG

    Sure to be a favorite with commercial growers, and those determined to get the highest gram per watt ratio with the least effort, Vertical Sea of Green(V-SOG) setups are real performers! A V-SOG setup applies the same principles of flat SOG gardening, simply with a 360 degree wall of small plants. Clones are placed in the setup in rows, as many rows high as will fit into the system. Well rooted clones may go immediately into flower, or veg a few days to a week before being switched to 12/12, depending on how much a strain may stretch.

    V-SOGs of any decent size require clones, and lots of them. Alternately, they can be used to grow out lots of seed in a small space, for instance for breeding purposes(searching for traits, etc). Those using clones will need several mothers or one bushy tree of a mama, to provide the extreme number of clones required to fill a V-SOG. One nice aspect of this is how easy it is to flower out several strains at once, since so many clones are required. Variety is easy to provide with a V-SOG. However those looking for absolute highest gram per watt should stick to single strain runs, and use clones that are as consistent as possible. So long as you can provide the space for mothers and lots of clones, you can turn around a V-SOG in a very short amount of time and be flowering your next crop in a matter of days.

    Most of the commercially available vertical setups I've seen have been of the V-SOG variety, and mostly hydroponic. I'll include links at the end of the article(so you finish reading it before getting lost).

    Pictured is an EcoSystem to give you the idea.
    My Threads
    Indoor Vertical Grow Systems 101
    Macro Attack

    Comment


      #3
      Vertical SCROG

      The most common vertical method for micro and personal growers, Vertical Screen of Green(V-SCROG) takes the principles of scrogging vertical. As with flat scrogging, V-SCROG uses a screen to train buds. There are 2 basic ways growers do this.

      With the first method, the grower constructs a tube of hardware cloth, or any chicken wire like material with appropriately sized holes, and places the bulb in the middle of the tube. The diameter of the tube would primarily be decided by the lighting one chooses to use. One or more plants are placed on the ground beneath the screen. The plants are trained around the screen until it has been filled, using the same techniques as traditional scrogging. When flowered, the colas all grow inward to the bulb like an inside out porcupine. Since these are all DIY, there are as many variations on the same basic theme as one can imagine. A once popular variation was to fit the whole works, including ventilation, into a barrel. This is sometimes called V-Tub, Barrel of green, etc. They come in every flavor including soil, hydro, single plant, multi plant, etc.

      Pictured here is bf7's V-SCROG tub for reference.


      The second basic method of V-Scrogging utilizes an individual screen for each plant in the system, typically attached to the pot so the plant can be easily moved outside the flower chamber for training, then put back in place. Growers with a single stationary screen typically don't have this option. I believe it is for this reason that most V-SCROGgers are going with this method.

      Marlo's STEP IN THE ARENA is an excellent example of the second type of V-SCROG:
      https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=164050

      This certainly doesn't cover every application of screens in vertical growing. It's worth noting that some Stadium growers have had great success training their plants with screens. Also some tree growers like to toss a screen over their trees and use it to help hold up the crazy colas they grow. Screens and nets can be useful in most any grow, so long as they don't get in the way too much.
      My Threads
      Indoor Vertical Grow Systems 101
      Macro Attack

      Comment


        #4
        Stadium Style Grows

        Stadium, and Coliseum Style grows were probably the first step towards 360 degree vertical gardens. They deserve a place here as well.

        This type of setup consists of rows of steps descending towards each other along the walls of your grow space. For the soil/soiless grower, this can mean something as simple as a series of wooden benches. While for a hydro grower, it can mean systems as complex as the cool PVC model pictured below(though a hydro setup could also be quite simple).

        The Lights are hung vertically, in a line down the center aisle of the room. They are hung at a height that will place them in the middle of the height of the overall stadium canopy.

        A stadium style grow won't gain you as much square footage as a circular setup will, nevertheless you should get 40% more square footage(I figured that might be about average, you could gain more or less depending how you set yours up), with a lot less work, and likely it will be easier to maintain. This is a really simple way to get more out of a flat garden, without completely rebuilding your room.

        SensiSamurai posted an incredible stadium grow up, with excellent pictures which very clearly illustrate the concept:
        SensiSamurai's Badass Stadium Grow

        the above picture is from SS' thread, you should check it out!

        My Threads
        Indoor Vertical Grow Systems 101
        Macro Attack

        Comment


          #5
          Tree/Bush Style Vertical Grows
          After much consideration, and without consulting anyone else’s opinion, I have decided Tree and Bush Grows utilizing vertical lighting deserve a place here. Modern indoor tree/bush grows are gaining a lot of popularity. With more states going medical, but restricting plant numbers severely, it’s easy to see why. If they limit your plant numbers, you grow huge plants!
          To keep things simple I have broken this down into 2 sections. Trees and bushes(shrubberies if you prefer). Both are grown to a very large size using vertical bulbs. The difference is in the plant size, and in the way the bulbs are implemented in the floor plan. With the huge trees, you surround the plant with bulbs. However when growing smaller(but still quite large by indoor grow standards) bushes, the plants are arrayed around the bulb/s in a circle, to suck up every bit of direct light possible. Both methods have merit, and have proved highly successful. Large harvests with very little popcorn bud are the norm with a properly dialed tree/bush grows. Ok read on for a little bit more detailed info, and some links to examples here on IC.

          Trees
          Using vertically hung bulbs arrayed around individual trees in a checkerboard pattern, this style of growing allows plants to use every bit of light your bulbs produce, in much the same way as the other systems described in this thread. It’s simply one plant instead of 100. This means your plants will require a longer veg time to reach flowering size, and they will need a system capable of handling a very large root mass for each plant, since that is what will create a giant tree harvest of dense nuggets. This is an up down view of such a garden, with the X’s being the Lights and the O’s being the Plants:
          Four plant tree garden(5 bulbs):
          XOX
          OXO
          XOX
          12 plant tree garden(13 bulbs):
          XOXOX
          OXOXO
          XOXOX
          OXOXO
          XOXOX
          With this type of tree growing you can lower electrical use, by putting the lights on a flip flop and only running half of them at once, switching to the other half of the bulbs midway through the day.

          Here is Heath Robinson's thread about his tree grows, and how he does them. This is an incredible read, not just for those who intend to grow trees. Jump to page 8 if you wish to see his breakdown of how he does it:
          Heath's Tree Grows

          Bushes
          Bring us, a Shrubbery!
          Another valid implementation of vertically grown plants is to array your buckets flat on the ground in a circle, and simply hang a bare vertical bulb down in the center(or two bulbs). This requires large bushes to make the best use of the light, but can be very rewarding in terms of grams/watt, if not so visually impressive as the giant trees you can grow with the above method. This is another method that should be attractive to medical growers who have to work with limited numbers.
          My Threads
          Indoor Vertical Grow Systems 101
          Macro Attack

          Comment


            #6
            ICMag Member Verticals

            What follows are links to my own favorite vertical setups here on ICMag. It's going to take a while to browse through them all and pick my faves, so bear with me as this section fills out.

            V-SOG

            betterboy's Revised Vertical Areo
            https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=28746

            PoorBoy's DIY Coliseum On The Cheap
            https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=139361

            Uncle FREEDOM's Vertical MADNESS!!!
            https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=187688

            sunnydog's 2000w Verticle,Organic,Auto-watered, SOG Tent!
            https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=110619

            COhomegrown's Grab your sunglasses! 6K Inside!
            https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=150982

            wisco61's 400w bare bulb vertical
            https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=162941

            Kootenay's Homemade Vertical POTRACKS 6kw
            https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=110670

            V-SCROG

            DonkDBZ's new vert Setup
            https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=144723

            RedDeer's 4,000w (6000w eventually) Flip-flop vert Trees
            https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=168217

            Marlo's STEP IN THE ARENA
            https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=164050

            Stadiums

            redspaghetti's going vertical with Gorilla Kush
            https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=164571

            canadiancracker's stadium northern farmer style
            https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=136363

            SensiSamurai's 32 plants 4k stadium
            https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=151370

            Shcrews's Ghetto Vertical 4K Sealed Room
            https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=156422

            Securityfirst's Copycat 4k vertical stadium
            https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=153464

            bobblehead's 1200w Stadium v2.0. Many strains.
            https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=184217

            Selfhemployed's 3K Stadium Scrog. R&C amdt. 20
            https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=185081

            Trees/Bushes

            heath robinson's latest tree grow
            https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=181239

            lid's 4K vertical RDWC
            https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=151215

            Micro Grows

            cornfield's 250w vertical
            https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=65411

            Mr.Jones octagon growketel project 800w
            https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=125244

            Propoline's Vertically in cab
            https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=67597

            Tilt's The entertainment center
            https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=174331
            My Threads
            Indoor Vertical Grow Systems 101
            Macro Attack

            Comment


              #7
              Links to Commercial Systems:

              Looks like almost all the links I had to commercial setups were dead links. Consider this section under construction/review...
              My Threads
              Indoor Vertical Grow Systems 101
              Macro Attack

              Comment


                #8
                Thanks for the info MGT.......seems like a lot longer than 3 yrs ago when HG went away.......This oughta help some folks with makin decisions though huh , but me ?........

                Simple in my book.......Vert rules , and all else drools....bottom line harvey IME.....increased plant numbers dictate yield in smaller areas.....period........above and below , as well as........side by side....

                Just gotta get ready for clone factories ta feed tha beast.......everything comes with a cost......

                Respect MGT and take care.......DHF...............

                Comment


                  #9
                  Thanks DHF! It's actually much shorter than it used to be. There was a section with links to almost every vert grow on the web(3 yrs ago anyways), but most of the links are now dead, so I omitted it. I did add the Tree Section into my definition of vertical growing. So that is a new bit.
                  My Threads
                  Indoor Vertical Grow Systems 101
                  Macro Attack

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Verti gave this average grower above average yields. Due the bare bulbs (think light sabers) less time spent in my grow too !!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by whodair View Post
                      Verti gave this average grower above average yields. Due the bare bulbs (think light sabers) less time spent in my grow too !!
                      You got it. Bare bulbs are the way to go if you can work them into the way you grow!
                      My Threads
                      Indoor Vertical Grow Systems 101
                      Macro Attack

                      Comment


                        #12
                        So with winter comming up, is it worth it to buy a 60" cool tube? or just run 2 600's and a 400 CMH in a sealed room??

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by sixth6 View Post
                          So with winter comming up, is it worth it to buy a 60" cool tube? or just run 2 600's and a 400 CMH in a sealed room??
                          I'm not a big advocate of cooltubes. I tend to feel the extra inches they get you closer to the bulb aren't worth the lumens they chew up in the process. My vertical growing idol, Heath Robinson, tends to agree. Also, bare vertical bulbs should make for an easier to cool room than reflectors will.

                          However, if you already have a sealed room you are adapting to vertical growing, cooltubes may be easier to deal with than changing your ventilation system(or upgrading your cooling). Do what works best for your situation.
                          My Threads
                          Indoor Vertical Grow Systems 101
                          Macro Attack

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by DHF View Post
                            seems like a lot longer than 3 yrs ago when HG went away.........DHF...............
                            Wow! HG seems like a lifetime ago.

                            I remember this thread from back then MGT. This is actually what made me start thinking about trashing my reflector. The first image in your post showing the total growing area made it a no brainer for me. Heath's crazy grows were very inspirational as well.

                            I don't see myself goin away from vert any time soon. Bare hanging bulbs is the only way to go. I have a few vert grows here on IC. The latest was a Vertical Scrog with dual 400w HPS in my signature.

                            This is a great thread MGT. I'm glad you took the time to post this. I'm sure it will help to convert alot of growers to vert, as it did for me. .

                            Lemme know if its cool to drop a bunch of pics of my setup in here





                            MARLO
                            enter here



                            Originally posted by NSPB
                            The purpose was to metaphorically stack the deck with the best possible hand in the plants corner, so when we simply mimic rain, the plant can go all in.

                            NSPB Full Life Formula





                            Comment


                              #15
                              Looks like a good collection of the different methods.

                              Here is my own tree vscrog grow. I think after going vertical I don't want to grow horizontally again.

                              The Garden: A Photo essay in progress

                              4k Vertical Trees

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X