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    #16
    Sleepy, suppose this would depend on assumption of more or less / smaller or bigger. I'm still a hold-back & run lots of colas, so I root, then xf to veg (t5's) for 2-3days til they get a hold to the coir, then xf to flow system. Some I can veg for 6-7 days, others could xf right away. Depending, shooting for 6-7" at xf.

    Since don't rotate or nothing, use bbq stakes at bottom of pots & tie main stalk to those as encouragement to grow outward toward the light prior to it's vertical shift (which happens immediately). May move it down the stalk if nec over the next week. I trim heavily & adjust leaves to best allow light penetration & supercrop. Huge single cola with huge lower nugs.

    With this, could just veg in the same flow room/light, no prob. I set mine up as a square around the 2 ctr lts w 4' faces... appx 2' to canopy in each direction. Alternate wall sets every 5 wks.

    Just to reference as sure your's, everyone's, is different. Shit, HGO appears to be the man... what a WOG! Best brah.
    Please excuse the misspellings, grammatical errors & plain old ignorance... ;-)

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      #17
      Originally posted by oregon bob View Post
      Thank you HGO! Thank you GN!

      I'm totally on the vertical bandwagon... have been for a few years. But, I disagree with some of the hype that is associated with the vert grow...

      1. Plants grow differently - you have to grow them differently. I almost don't feel it is an apples to apples comparison when talking yields. After all, the direct light is less vs horizontal (per plant) as half the plant is not directly lit & there is no reflected light benefit. The impact of this effects your set-up, plant type, training/trimming techniques, growth characteristics & total yield, if not more. It's more like apples to oranges.

      2. The "best" way to maximize yields & get absolutely great qual nugs (top to bottom), is to grow many smaller sized plants (sog premise of 6" at flower & near 18-20" at finish). This guaranties top cola quality nugs all the way around. I don't have mid-grade nugs from this set-up. However, it is very difficult to operate within the emerging conventions & laws. I'm struggling with this as we speak.

      3. To totally maximize the 360d effect of maximizing total grow footprint (the real advantage, imho) requires quite a bit of effort... both on the front side & during the grow. I just don't feel this is for the light of heart as it requires an investment of build know-how & dollars. This is a labor intensive grow.

      With all of this said, even if you are growing a longer strain with less than ideal yields, it is my experiences to regularly achieve .9-1.3g/watt. This isn't focusing (at all) on bumping it out. I could see getting the 2.0g mark with effort & genetics. Heath's achievements shouldn't be expected as the "norm".

      Just my take as want to temper the enthusiasm. Best to all!

      ;-) fig this would start off some controversy as well...
      You are right on the spot. However, high plant numbers aren't necessary to achieve such yields.

      One example is krusty's style of grow which consists of less than 10 plants that yield 2 pounds each.

      Another classic example is Northern Farmers experience with larger plants in a stadium style grow which gave him 10 lbs dry with 4 1kw MH.

      I feel that the major advantage in pursuing the vertical light goals is the lighting and coverage. A reflector can only light 1 plane of plants while the vertical lighting can light more than 4 planes geometrically. And I find that mounting lights and moving them closer when necessary is a bit more labor intensive than just moving plants closer in pots.

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        #18
        TTG, k... had a problem, or two... who is NF? Couldn't find on search. Krusty's posts seem old & couldn't find pics, so not sure on his set-up, though didn't go all the way through... seemed heavily edited...? Here's a clip from teeg420: "Yea hopefully more people will get turned on to growing vert. Guys like heath robinson, 00420, green bastard, prawn connerey, green light, sunny dog, northern farmer, and bongholio have proven that you yield more with vert. It just amazes me the yields these guys are getting." Of all the names listed, 00420 is the only member I could find through search. Other names popped up on word search, but just by reference w/in thread. This seems quite odd to me?!? Why are all the verti growers removed?!? What's up w this...?
        Please excuse the misspellings, grammatical errors & plain old ignorance... ;-)

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          #19
          Originally posted by smokinshogun
          Vertical light movers??

          I seem to recall seeing at least one setup with a light mover that they modified with a pulley and string (I'll look for the pic). I was hoping there might be some discussion about how to do this, especially since all the information will be gathered in this one place.

          Basically, I want to get the most out a 400w using the least floor space. Since the 'arc tube?' is only about 4" long, the light needs to be moved up and down for it to cover more than about 2-3' of vertical space?

          Also how far can I have the 'circle' of plants from the light. People talk about placing them very close (6" for a 1K??) but that seems like a waste. People should list the distances of certain things (canopy at harvest, screen?, and 'medium' whether soil or hydro) from the light. I look foward to this new section taking off,

          I voted NO btw, it was 12-0...So I had to make sure everything was working right....and I knew you'd get it
          Vertical light mover sound tits to me.I have been thinking about a servo and some kite line or small rope with pullys.Psudo sunrise.
          I have found that 6"-8" is how far I need to stay away from my 400 .Just pass your hand thru the beam and find the hot spot then move back untill is cool.6"-8" at my house.Also I feel that a plant hight of 30" is about right for a 400,with no mover

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            #20
            The question I have on the mover is how to handle the vent tubing...? It has to be able to retract to & fro along w the mover. How would you achieve this w/o it sagging up top or coiling on the bottom?
            Please excuse the misspellings, grammatical errors & plain old ignorance... ;-)

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              #21
              I have been a fan of 3d growing since year dot. Ed R & Mel F's book iirc started me off thinking, I am sure it was them that showed the 'stadium' ... a normal 2d table, but with the tallest plants at the edge. Now I am playing around with putting taller [stretchier] strains on the sides and/or starting these clones 10 days before the 'middle table clones'.... a Wall of Green.....best not use an acronym for that one... I first did this years ago, running a row or two of Swazi outside a middle of SuperSkunk, it worked really well.

              Chatting to my Guru mate, he runs 'valleys' IIRC just 3 NFT systems, with the outside 2 tables 20/30cm higher than the middle one and a light mover up and down the middle, this fills out the plants really well and he is happy with the improvement over the same at the same level.

              I am not really indoors at the moment, but may well go back there soon, hopefully with a proper setup and a homemade 3d NFT system. My second ever grow featured a homemade NFT table/system and I have done them DIY ever since, what I really want to do is convert this into a proper 3d system, either a valley first, or a full on colliseum.

              The thing that I always look at and do not like with the commercial systems is accessibility, or rather, the lack of... so I was thinking along the lines of welding up strong steel frames, setting up 4 freestanding, but wheeled quarters that move in and out of place.. with remote reservoirs. As I like to play about and try different things, I would probably start with several experiments with the 'table' ... large uPVC drainage ducts vs Fibreglass resin covered wood vs pot holders for drain to waste Coco spring to mind ... and... with any luck some good ideas pinched from you lot....

              All I ever learned about homebrewed NFT & Hydro is in Molyneux's "A Practical Guide to NFT" ... just fantastic and also relevant to any Hydro system, not just NFT, the ideas and sections on Materials are pure Gold IMO.

              Good luck all, thanks to HGOz, Gypsy & all involved in getting this section up, I am really looking forward to learning a hell of a lot here from you IC people, not to mention stealing all your best ideas... Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery after all....
              .....

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                #22
                Originally posted by oregon bob View Post
                TTG, k... had a problem, or two... who is NF? Couldn't find on search. Krusty's posts seem old & couldn't find pics, so not sure on his set-up, though didn't go all the way through... seemed heavily edited...? Here's a clip from teeg420: "Yea hopefully more people will get turned on to growing vert. Guys like heath robinson, 00420, green bastard, prawn connerey, green light, sunny dog, northern farmer, and bongholio have proven that you yield more with vert. It just amazes me the yields these guys are getting." Of all the names listed, 00420 is the only member I could find through search. Other names popped up on word search, but just by reference w/in thread. This seems quite odd to me?!? Why are all the verti growers removed?!? What's up w this...?
                Because a majority of those people are on other forums, I love ICMAG but for longest time they didnt have a vert section. 00420, sunny dog and northern farmer are all members. There is plenty others as well in the search function go to advanced and type vertical with the title only it should help narrow down your results.

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                  #23
                  Thank you brother! kinda fig that out after my short-bus moment... thank you!

                  Disregard my other post as hit you up again when discovered you were o/l. Best brah! ;-)
                  Please excuse the misspellings, grammatical errors & plain old ignorance... ;-)

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                    #24
                    im not sure i believe the hype about vertical circular grows, im on the vertical stadium as being the best use of space, best use of light yes i agree its vertical circular but not space,,with the circular its only going to be one plant in front of the bulb ,..... the square foot standard of measureing all this increase sqaure foot of light with the cirucular setups is a little misleading , the light efficiency isnt , theres almost complete shade just behind any plant next to the screen on a vertical ciruclar grow, that means one plant per few feet around the light, in the end not much differant to other methods, i mean with substantial light, more tops would yeild more to me as opposed to this method, i think the integration of both via vertical stadium is the best- when ever people quote someone pulling alot of pounds of a few 1000 bulbs their always talking about monster plants and are well out of the quick veg fast flower timeline most people base yeilds on anyways-

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                      #25
                      nope with a circular vert you end up getting more surface area/ grow area. compared to the stadium.

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                        #26
                        vertical growing is chill, definitely makes sense as far as efficiency. I would like to see a 3x3 grow or something similar done with vertical lighting.

                        but I agree that plants have to be grown completely different, vertical scrog anyone?!

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                          #27
                          interesting!

                          you mention high yields, what kind of gram/watt are you getting?

                          thanks

                          V.
                          My contributions to this website in no way imply support for any political or cultural views promoted here.
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                          To the large and singular furniture of this noble island i have added from foreign places all the variety of herbs and flowers that i might any way obtain. I've laboured with the soil to make it fit for plants, and with the plants that they might delight in the soil - so they might live and prosper under our climate as in their native and proper country.
                          Gerard's Herbal (1636)

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                            #28
                            I found Heath's stuff... a m a z i n g... who is this guy?!? Talk about constantly pushing your limits... wow.

                            Thanks Teeg- got a few more days til my pm's activate (think i need 7 days registered, not there). will pm a few questions soon. best to all!
                            Please excuse the misspellings, grammatical errors & plain old ignorance... ;-)

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                              #29
                              GREAT illustrations! You're my new hero. Rep points for you. Let's see that garden comparison chart again ...

                              Originally posted by Hundred Gram Oz View Post
                              Damn if that don't say it all. I'll STFU now.
                              .
                              .

                              FreezerBoy's Destroyer Diary-Completed...... FreezerBoy's Thunk Diary-Completed...... Beginners Links

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                                #30
                                thank you took the words right out of my mouth.

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