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Organic yields

Bio boy

Active member
Seems a taboo to talk about this in organics but here goes.

Im about to embark on a living soil journey from the salty world.



Currently coco dtw 1200w
4x8ft room. dominator reflectors.

I feed megacrop/advsnced nutes
i get 400-800gram a 4x4 per 600watt. 4plants a side 8 total



Now i got 7x7ft room.

1200watts (swapping to led soon) but for story 1200w hps.

And 350 litre growbed 4x4ft 9 plants


Using coots mix with ewc thats been fed black leaf mould. Amendments and chicken poo for 4months and sat bagged with worms in for 18 month.



Will i expext to yield less? Same? Or more?



Hard to find diarys and once i find are micro grows. Ones with monsters dont post yields lol.
 

f-e

Well-known member
Mentor
Veteran
Have a look at Dank Frank's work. You may need to scale up, but his plants are typical enough to do so. He has the second highest yield I have seen claimed here. I don't think he has full committed to LED's yet either. So there is room for improvement.


Perhaps send your substrate in for sampling. I wouldn't set out to grow in something unknown. Not when yield is important to you. That would be crazy.
 

Veggia farmer

Well-known member
Yep, check out Frank, he is good. Im a bed grower myself, mostly organic. Organic beds first dialed in can be a beast of a medium!
 

Bio boy

Active member
ha found him, almost same conditions as me lol im so happy thanks guys,

ive been reading his thread like a bible lol,

tryina find my shopping list now hehe

damn franks got dank lol
 

bushed

Active member
Just small home grower here, I switched from Coco to organic about a year ago. I noticed a small drop in yield 5%. A huge jump in quality especially regarding taste. The main difference is so much less work, no phing or mixing nutes, that alone is worth the reduction in yield for me.
 

CrushnYuba

Well-known member
If you are dialed in coco plants have the ABILITY to grow faster. In my greenhouse with the sun and heat and humidity, plants definitely grow faster with coco. Lower temperatures, less light, it would probably be less difference.
You can still get great yields and quality. Just not the speed. Organic is Damn near foolproof though
 

Azeotrope

Well-known member
Veteran
Have a look at Dank Frank's work. You may need to scale up, but his plants are typical enough to do so. He has the second highest yield I have seen claimed here. I don't think he has full committed to LED's yet either. So there is room for improvement.


Perhaps send your substrate in for sampling. I wouldn't set out to grow in something unknown. Not when yield is important to you. That would be crazy.

Did you attempt to indicate that DF might yield more with LEDs? Bwahahahaha that's bot only complete garbage but, for another forum so I guess that's all I'm going to say about it here in organic soil.
 

Bio boy

Active member
Did you attempt to indicate that DF might yield more with LEDs? Bwahahahaha that's bot only complete garbage but, for another forum so I guess that's all I'm going to say about it here in organic soil.




Yesh think he did. But more inclined to believe its csuse he knows i use hps and led. And my older thread asking if i shoul add hps to my led ?
 

Weird

3rd-Eye Jedi
Veteran
organics can out perform hydro and hydro can out perform organics

two reasons

skill of the grower and the metric for which our perform is measured

Skill of grower isn't an egotistical measure but one that simply dictates skill set. Everyone starts somewhere and everyone generally settles with what meets their objective. Some people build out skill in more than one area some focus it more narrowly.

Putting some tangible metrics to performance really makes it more clear especially when you couple it with resources and objective.

Working outside the boundaries of resources and objectives isn't a skill set that offers much more than learning to work under frustration conditions. It is a skill one might have developed boot strapping grows over the years but it isn't one that seems valuable outside boot strapping itself.
 

thailer

Active member
i agree with weird and bushed. most people experience a yield loss when switching from coco to soil and i think it is more than what bushed experienced but i think that is due in part to weird's comments in that it all depends on the skill level. watering plants is gonna probably be the biggest difference because wet dry cycles IMO aren't the best for yield compared to a consistent moisture level with organic soil, especially if you're gonna use a bed compared to smaller containers.

generally yield goes up the more soil you give them and the more soil you use also means you need to be good at not over or under watering because it more difficult to dry out or rehydrate the larger the soil amount. when i grew in 20 gallon fabric pots, i had plants 3 feet in height/width producing 150 grams and when i switched to SIPs the same cut i ran for years immediately gained an additional 100 grams in weight. everything else the same and i use the basic coot mix as well but i didn't use chicken manure or leaf mold fed worms. this was all first round soil as well. i didn't defoliate, prune, or anything to the plants themselves back then. just au natural but today, i am starting to do more things to play around with yield.

i can say for sure that everyone who switched over has had nothing but positive things to say about it even if some things aren't equal. i think it would be rare to meet someone who didn't think it was a good choice to make.
 
Industry extractors must not have a clue what theyre doing, or have never even seen good organic bud ran through their facility. Otherwise the secret would be out: hydro is good for growing plant matter, that's about it. I think everyone would rather have buds with a deadened thump to their resonance, even when bone dry. Put a bud in my hand I'll tell you your rosin returns. 25%? HYDRO MIDS.
 

CrushnYuba

Well-known member
i agree with weird and bushed. most people experience a yield loss when switching from coco to soil and i think it is more than what bushed experienced but i think that is due in part to weird's comments in that it all depends on the skill level. watering plants is gonna probably be the biggest difference because wet dry cycles IMO aren't the best for yield compared to a consistent moisture level with organic soil, especially if you're gonna use a bed compared to smaller containers.

generally yield goes up the more soil you give them and the more soil you use also means you need to be good at not over or under watering because it more difficult to dry out or rehydrate the larger the soil amount. when i grew in 20 gallon fabric pots, i had plants 3 feet in height/width producing 150 grams and when i switched to SIPs the same cut i ran for years immediately gained an additional 100 grams in weight. everything else the same and i use the basic coot mix as well but i didn't use chicken manure or leaf mold fed worms. this was all first round soil as well. i didn't defoliate, prune, or anything to the plants themselves back then. just au natural but today, i am starting to do more things to play around with yield.

i can say for sure that everyone who switched over has had nothing but positive things to say about it even if some things aren't equal. i think it would be rare to meet someone who didn't think it was a good choice to make.


There's me. I experimented with sip a bit. I'm not a fan at all. Water doesn't flow up. There is no way to control how wet the medium is. The bottom just stays soggy. I don't think stagnant water is cool. I personally like to control how much water a plant gets every day and how wet my medium is. I thought It's that top layer of soil that is the most biologically active. And the feeder roots are at the top. To me it's a cool science experiment to try. Its not ideal but it's cool that it works. I don't see why it would be someone's grow method of choice. I'm sure there is some theory that explains it, But i haven't heard it yet. Why would it be preferred over drip?
 

eyes

Active member
Veteran
in my growing experience, I always had mediocore yields in promix with salts. I later tried some organics(seagull guano and such) but didnt like the outright smell of it. So i never did give it a fair chance as you would have it.either way, Many crops later, i decided on coco and like the yields and the growth without the plants going rootbound. But I will be damned if there isnt some sort of lockup with the pottasium that causes some nute deficiency. I decided f it, I will just run straight Hydro and thats what I did. There is def benefits to coco as the roots are in a media and the room can be run hotter and you can take advantage of co2 and such. where as hydro i have to keep my room cool to keep the rez cool.

anyway, getting back to yields in organics, I run my mom plants in organics and they seem to do pretty good. I dont have any fancy list like supersoil but what I do use seems to do the trick. Hard to compare yields at this present time because the soil plants are older and taller. my hydro plants of the same strain seem to grow quicker in the hydro tables and the last yield was 2105 grams from 1400 watts of leds. It would have been 3001 grams if not for the low yielding kush strain. I would really have to run soil organics with same number of plants to compare properly.
 

moses wellfleet

Well-known member
Moderator
Veteran
There's me. I experimented with sip a bit. I'm not a fan at all. Water doesn't flow up. There is no way to control how wet the medium is. The bottom just stays soggy. I don't think stagnant water is cool. I personally like to control how much water a plant gets every day and how wet my medium is. I thought It's that top layer of soil that is the most biologically active. And the feeder roots are at the top. To me it's a cool science experiment to try. Its not ideal but it's cool that it works. I don't see why it would be someone's grow method of choice. I'm sure there is some theory that explains it, But i haven't heard it yet. Why would it be preferred over drip?

This thread is all about Sips, If you can take the time would be interesting to know how your design differed and what went wrong?

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=378414
 

CrushnYuba

Well-known member
It didn't go wrong. It just doesn't do as well as drip from the top and there were things i really didn't like about it. Its just kind of backwards. This festering mushy layer at the bottom. It seemed like a rot time bomb. I top dress. It has to be watered down. I need water flowing down in the amounts i need at the time i need. Having to put down so much mulch to keep the top layer from evaporating. I don't like smothering my soil with thick mulches like that. Its just very flawed. It just doesn't do as well as any type of drip from the top.
There are allot of different methods of growing i have tried. There is always some theory on what makes that method work better that made me try it. I tried sip just because it was an experiment.
I haven't heard the theory on sip.
Like what is the reason that I'm trying to fight physics? What am i going to get out of it?
 

thailer

Active member
There's me. I experimented with sip a bit. I'm not a fan at all. Water doesn't flow up. There is no way to control how wet the medium is. The bottom just stays soggy. I don't think stagnant water is cool. I personally like to control how much water a plant gets every day and how wet my medium is. I thought It's that top layer of soil that is the most biologically active. And the feeder roots are at the top. To me it's a cool science experiment to try. Its not ideal but it's cool that it works. I don't see why it would be someone's grow method of choice. I'm sure there is some theory that explains it, But i haven't heard it yet. Why would it be preferred over drip?

water actually does flow upwards and it fights gravity up till a certain point. water flows upwards using capillary action. in a shallow container the soil gets pretty soggy like you mentioned and i saw several SIP users show their root balls of brown gross roots. i made some changes to the design to address a lot of the problems that made people shy away from SIPs like wet feet, soil being too saturated and how to keep your roots healthy. why i prefer it over drip is that plants dictate how much water they uptake with a SIP while in drip you control and have to adjust as plants grow. the peat moss keeps the soil saturation at a certain point when it is allowed to uptake the water as it needs it and isn't top watered. i was sold two years ago after getting an increase in weight that nearly doubled.

heres some bud that is the width of the palm of my hand and forearm.
picture.php


here's some nice knockers too.

picture.php
 
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