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    #31
    https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/b2d...389.1603088281

    Evaluating the Efficiency of Wicking Bed IrrigationSystems for Small-Scale Urban Agriculture
    BLACK LIVES MATTER

    galatians 6:7

    The shape it takes could be yours to choose

    What you may win, what you may lose
    Sativa is manna from heaven - BLueGrassToker


    Nobody every told me I found out for myself, you've got to believe in foolish miracles - o. osborne

    Although the masters make the rules
    For the wise men and the fools
    I got nothing, Ma, to live up to - b. Dylan

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      #32
      I have gotten pretty good yields with organics.
      this is my 3rd run since starting to grow again after a 10 year break or so.
      These are all living soil beds. Custom soil mix i made up myself and nothing but water start to finish. Ammendments i add are just the worms at the start adn then feed them their own leaves and stems 90% of my leaves go back into the beds. Ive gotten 3 runs out of my oldest bed and havent had to reammend yet. theres a solid worm population and always have cover crops dieing/ coming up with tons of leaves and stems decomposing for a mulch. I plant back into the beds the same day i chop



      5x5 tent

      i also set up a new tent thats currently on day 56.. half of it is SIPS half of it is beds. This is a picture of my beds.. the SIPS are hidden in the back corner.

      Comment


        #33
        Originally posted by thailer View Post
        i really haven't read much about growing in coco but i've noticed yield is great and they have a lot of discussion about dry downs, dry backs and how that influences growth as well as using that to manipulate plants. so for them i don't think that keeping moisture consistently the same throughout the grow works to their advantage like it does for organic soil growers.
        may be an OT but sounds really interesting...


        my personal experience about has show that i can't really afford to begin a new grow using the same method for different crops.

        even if the main the hybrid i' ve grown -not so much, at least-seems to tollerate or even getting advantage, some others don't.
        Specifically, i' v noticed that some sativas or sativas's gene-leading like G13haze i've grown so many times recently, really suffer a dry pot,revealing some deficiency not due to a unbalanced diet or to the density of roots inside the pot itself.
        the rising of salt concentration that then occours, it's something i get used to manage since could happend that i reduce the total amount of feeding during some phase of the plant's life for different reasons.
        i mean, after all, i believe this could be understood like a phenotypical trait. at least

        Comment


          #34
          Originally posted by Weird View Post
          https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/b2d...389.1603088281

          Evaluating the Efficiency of Wicking Bed IrrigationSystems for Small-Scale Urban Agriculture
          i never considered that there would be studies on these simple little totes!! just looking through it shortly, i noticed that the more water was consumed, the higher the yield and it also says that the shallow depth containers performed better than deep containers which i am a little surprised but SUPER interested in learning more about. thanks for such a great share!

          Bigger Britches For My Ladies (2021-current)
          Thai's Blooper Reel ~ 2018-2021

          Some days you eat the bear; other days the bear...well...he eats you.

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by B.T. Herb View Post
            may be an OT but sounds really interesting...


            my personal experience about has show that i can't really afford to begin a new grow using the same method for different crops.

            even if the main the hybrid i' ve grown -not so much, at least-seems to tollerate or even getting advantage, some others don't.
            Specifically, i' v noticed that some sativas or sativas's gene-leading like G13haze i've grown so many times recently, really suffer a dry pot,revealing some deficiency not due to a unbalanced diet or to the density of roots inside the pot itself.
            the rising of salt concentration that then occours, it's something i get used to manage since could happend that i reduce the total amount of feeding during some phase of the plant's life for different reasons.
            i mean, after all, i believe this could be understood like a phenotypical trait. at least
            i started looking into them because i had this plant GMO that would suck water up all day long and if she went a little too dry she would herm viable pollen all over. when i switched over, i saw how much water they are drinking up daily and was shocked because i was not giving my fabric pots even half of the amount. i asked others if they felt that the amount was the correct amount to be watering and everyone said my watering was fine but i don't think it was. i thought i had some mystery issues and my soil recipe wasn't enough. maybe i needed more calcium or something because the plants sometimes would have deficiencies.

            short of dumping water on the fabric bags till my grow room looks like a swamp, i think they let the peat moss get too dry and it is near impossible to resaturate the middle of the peat moss, so water when given soaks into the topsoil but once it hits the hydrophobic middle, it dribbles out the side of the fabric bag about halfway down? the plant looks watered but if you take a hacksaw to the root ball and cut it in half, i found a dry middle inside the ball.

            i have switched over to plastic pots which hold humidity better and it seems like the peat can hydrate easier with plastic than a fabric bag.
            Bigger Britches For My Ladies (2021-current)
            Thai's Blooper Reel ~ 2018-2021

            Some days you eat the bear; other days the bear...well...he eats you.

            Comment


              #36
              Originally posted by Weird View Post
              https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/b2d...389.1603088281

              Evaluating the Efficiency of Wicking Bed IrrigationSystems for Small-Scale Urban Agriculture
              They are using a bed 50% the thickness of the soil, and crushed rock for the medium.

              <Different pots were built to compare the WUE of standard surface irrigation, conventional wicking beds, and wicking beds with a soil column, each with two soil bed heights (300, 600 mm) and two
              WB reservoir depths (150, 300 mm). A coarse-grained material (quartzite gravel) was used to fill the reservoir.>

              I did some experimenting with a tote and dry perlite last night. The PU truck headlights provided light, and the first thing I noticed when I opened the bag, was the dust that wafts out. Dry perlite needs a N95 mask when working with it, IMO. Once it is wet, the stuff isn't so bad.

              Another observation is their soil wick is similar to the Earthbox.
              ______________________________ __________________________
              Dr. Tuggle's Compound Syrup of Globe Flower

              https://youtu.be/x0BinEFCp38?t=74

              https://youtu.be/NUmIO_MG5IU?t=87

              Things just chug long when those microbes are happy........scrappy

              Comment


                #37
                Wicking systems are far older than the modern cannabis movement. IIRC Jute was used to this purpose in older cultures.

                I was surprised no one understood this thus the reason I searched up the study.

                Originally posted by thailer View Post
                i never considered that there would be studies on these simple little totes!! just looking through it shortly, i noticed that the more water was consumed, the higher the yield and it also says that the shallow depth containers performed better than deep containers which i am a little surprised but SUPER interested in learning more about. thanks for such a great share!

                BLACK LIVES MATTER

                galatians 6:7

                The shape it takes could be yours to choose

                What you may win, what you may lose
                Sativa is manna from heaven - BLueGrassToker


                Nobody every told me I found out for myself, you've got to believe in foolish miracles - o. osborne

                Although the masters make the rules
                For the wise men and the fools
                I got nothing, Ma, to live up to - b. Dylan

                Comment


                  #38
                  i poke some small holes in the bottom of the perlite bags and then fill it up with water and let it drain out before working with it. the dust settles on the bottom but i don't think its a big deal; just aesthetically not appealing. the dust is definitely not good to inhale.

                  whenever i see a bunch of numbers on a study all in one spot, i go cross eyed. lol i'm gonna have to wait till i am not so stoned to go over it.
                  Bigger Britches For My Ladies (2021-current)
                  Thai's Blooper Reel ~ 2018-2021

                  Some days you eat the bear; other days the bear...well...he eats you.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Contextually to the concept of optimal biomass + secondary metabolite output within a given time frame. When people argue various methodology they are not arguing apples to apples. It happens in academic cannabis agriculture. Seems the greatest challenge of all is still cognitive bias.
                    BLACK LIVES MATTER

                    galatians 6:7

                    The shape it takes could be yours to choose

                    What you may win, what you may lose
                    Sativa is manna from heaven - BLueGrassToker


                    Nobody every told me I found out for myself, you've got to believe in foolish miracles - o. osborne

                    Although the masters make the rules
                    For the wise men and the fools
                    I got nothing, Ma, to live up to - b. Dylan

                    Comment


                      #40
                      oops.
                      Last edited by thailer; 01-27-2021, 22:32.
                      Bigger Britches For My Ladies (2021-current)
                      Thai's Blooper Reel ~ 2018-2021

                      Some days you eat the bear; other days the bear...well...he eats you.

                      Comment


                        #41
                        I don't hate sip at all. I think i like it better then hand watering. It almost does what i want. Just not quite.

                        I agree that more air is better. I haven't really had better yields with coco then organic. Part of it may be that I'm not such a good Salt grower. And i have grown more weed organically then with salts. But i really haven't been able to yield better for the most part. I have been enjoying experiments with salts though.

                        Any difference in yield i would imagine would just be from increased oxygen at the roots and available nutrients. I have done better keeping my soil as light and fluffy as possible. Using less compost and casting. More soiless media like peat and coco. Tilling between runs and keeping from compacting. Making sure the medium keeps its body as it gets recycled. Making sure i don't overwater my plants. Hand watering can compact soil and separate it. When medium gets water to fast perlite floats out and it all settles. Just using drip avoids those issues. I feel like when you hand water, you wash the available nutrients down away from that nice area right below the surface where it is most useful. I think sip does well for people because it also avoids those issues.
                        With a light medium, drip, and top dressing. I try to give roots as much oxygen as possible and available nutrients in the upper part of the root zone.
                        I used to have friends throw out soil after a single run. Only use new stuff. They really actually did well. It was just so wasteful. But they constantly had great results. 20k$+ in soil every year.
                        I recycle my soil but i take care to keep it feeling like it's fresh. I get similar results.

                        Comment


                          #42
                          so i still have a couple pages left to digest but this study basically blows my hopthesis out of the water about deeper beds creating more air space at the root zone, which i guess it does except that this greatly reduced the yield.


                          crushinyuba may be interested tho because it compared wet yield to dry yield and even though the yield was high with harvested tomatoes, that the dried biomass was much higher in top fed tomatoes compared to bottom fed tomatoes and i think it was due to the wicking bed tom's having higher water content so more weight. i wonder if i am reading that wrong. it makes sense though because the plants just feel heavier when i harvest and the buds/branches lean a lot more during a weight surge than hand watered plants. you can feel the difference. still the dry gram weight for me personally was a huge difference in favor of sips over fabric pots.
                          Bigger Britches For My Ladies (2021-current)
                          Thai's Blooper Reel ~ 2018-2021

                          Some days you eat the bear; other days the bear...well...he eats you.

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Hey everyone, l hope you’re all well,
                            I’m wondering how often the beds will need to be flushed due to the wicking process retaining salts. What I’m thinking is, with conventional watering, salts and available nutrients and minerals, are transported through the soil and settle in a horizon,within the soil structure, before being totally washed away, by say, over watering. These salts can be collected in a reservoir over time and become toxic, but in a wicking bed, this process works in reverse, therefore trapping any toxicity within the soil.
                            This leads onto the salts versus organic debate, within the system, one will become toxic quicker.
                            Because of the way the wicking beds are working, at what point does the soil become overwhelmed with detrimental nutrients, like salts, having no way to escape and in which horizon are different nutrients accumulating. Even in organics, salt build up occurs over time. To me, this explains different peoples experiences with the system and of course, any system.
                            This would quite obviously have an adverse effect on yield, probably, even before it becomes noticeable at other stages of plant development.
                            I guess we need soil tests over time, in isolated systems with transparency regarding methods and inputs to really pin this one down.
                            We were having a really interesting discussion, before Christmas, over at the “Local Materials” thread regarding indoor nutrients and Microbeman dropped some really important knowledge regarding his systems, which was to brew microbe teas to feed his plants and additives to aid in this process. He also mentioned inputs that are detrimental to the process, which has changed my whole way of producing teas and feedings.
                            To me this is a really cheap and easy way to feed our plants, organically, with obvious benefits regarding plant and soil health which will ultimately translate into yields that don’t eat into bottom lines. Personally l feel this question is something that’s worth exploring, assuming you’ve got a healthy soil, what’s the biggest yield you can achieve with the least amount of money.
                            Cheers,
                            40.
                            Last edited by 40degsouth; 01-28-2021, 02:29.

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Originally posted by 40degsouth View Post
                              Hey everyone, l hope you’re all well,
                              I’m wondering how often the beds will need to be flushed due to the wicking process retaining salts. What I’m thinking is, with conventional watering, salts and available nutrients and minerals, are transported through the soil and settle in a horizon,within the soil structure, before being totally washed away, by say, over watering. These salts can be collected in a reservoir over time and become toxic, but in a wicking bed, this process works in reverse, therefore trapping any toxicity within the soil.
                              This leads onto the salts versus organic debate, within the system, one will become toxic quicker.
                              Because of the way the wicking beds are working, at what point does the soil become overwhelmed with detrimental nutrients, like salts, having no way to escape and in which horizon are different nutrients accumulating. Even in organics, salt build up occurs over time. To me, this explains different peoples experiences with the system and of course, any system.
                              This would quite obviously have an adverse effect on yield, probably, even before it becomes noticeable at other stages of plant development.
                              I guess we need soil tests over time, in isolated systems with transparency regarding methods and inputs to really pin this one down.
                              We were having a really interesting discussion, before Christmas, over at the “Local Materials” thread regarding indoor nutrients and Microbeman dropped some really important knowledge regarding his systems, which was to brew microbe teas to feed his plants and additives to aid in this process. He also mentioned inputs that are detrimental to the process, which has changed my whole way of producing teas and feedings.
                              To me this is a really cheap and easy way to feed our plants, organically, with obvious benefits regarding plant and soil health which will ultimately translate into yields that don’t eat into bottom lines. Personally l feel this question is something that’s worth exploring, assuming you’ve got a healthy soil, what’s the biggest yield you can achieve with the least amount of money.
                              Cheers,
                              40.
                              Great post, this is a very important question and one I'm dealing with at the moment.

                              I use recycled living soil that I have had for nearly 5 years, 2 of those in SIPs. Each run I top dress with various dry amendments. There are earthworms in each container.

                              A couple months ago I had a SIP that became over watered and the level rose almost to the soil line. The plant died very quickly. I drained the rez and immediately noticed the water tasted extremely salty, unfortunately I didn't test with an EC meter. It happened again a couple days ago but I caught it early and saved the plant. I have the water in a container and will go check it now and report back.

                              I think I will immediately drain a couple containers and flush with fresh water until the water coming out has no sign of salts. Then plant some clones and see how they flower out.
                              Last edited by moses wellfleet; 01-28-2021, 07:22.
                              Stoner4life we are thinking of you!

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                                #45
                                What soil mix and what u amending
                                Could you have amended toomuch as dude page 3 said he hasnt amnded for 3 tills now are people over amending every grow? Whats the limit ..i have no idea brainstorming im starting mine now so coule learn prior...


                                The autopot octapus and blue matts seems bettwr than a sip?
                                Last edited by Bio boy; 01-28-2021, 12:35.

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