Getting Started w/ living soil

[3rdEye]

great thread for everybody. Along with the original thread this makes it easy to access basic info. Thank for starting this

 

[firehound]

in post #34 xmob shows a reference to glacial rock dust with a ? to each c.f of soil. 4 cups sounds like a decent answer being its glacial. is this the right thought about this type dust?

 

[xmobotx]

rock manures are about as far from "available" as an amendment might be. for this reason, you can typically apply a lot & the consequences may be a long way down the road. similarly, w/ rock dust, a small application will not make much if any difference.

1/2 cup/1 cu. ft. is pretty close to 1 TBS/gallon of soil {slightly more} ~a high level to apply an amendment which may be soluble but a low level for "liming" type amendments ~which like rocks should be more like 1 cup/cu. ft.

you could get away w/ 2 cups/cu. ft. of a rock dust. if you are applying more than 1 or 2 rock dusts your rocks shouldn't add up to more than say ~3ish

it may not hurt anything to use more but your mix is getting heavy & that space might better serve as drainage, humus or even plant based amendments

 

[firehound]

The more rockdust variations the better up to a point. 1cup sounds more than enough per c.f. Wouldnt want to get too heavy of a mix. More like CC mentions take 1 cup basalt,1c pumice,1c glacial dust mix together and then use 1-2cups of the mix per c.f.?

 

[sticky367]

great thread xmobotx. I had ordered Rodale's book of composting recently, seeing you mention it here confirms how useful it will be once it arrives! I have some compost containing weeds, leaves, grass, wood fines, cow and horse manure, alphalfa etc. it has been composting for three years and is about 55% worm castings. I am wondering if it is composted enough to be used in a soil mix or do i need to wait for it to become 100% worm castings? sorry for the novice question hopefully i can answer these things myself soon.

 

[xmobotx]

if the compost has been thermophilic & reached sufficient temperature it can be fine but, a great way to be sure is to run it through a worm bin{because you do need all your compost additions to be "finished" in containers}

you want nothing to be recognizable ~sometimes, a pile of stuff will contain much "finished" compost as well as obvious leaves or stem {woodier high carbon stuff} especially if it hasn;t been turned much

you can screen that finer stuff out {humus will be tremendously fine} an 1/8" or 1/4" screen is good for separating finer stuff from things which haven;t broke down. You still want to give the worms a month or so w/ it. ~& worms give another opportunity to test suitability; they will not thrive in stuff which plants wouldn;t thrive either {they will writhe around if it's too bad & try to get away}

 

[ghostmade]

Bro love your style.

 

[xmobotx]

Thanks! this thread reminds me quite a bit of the discussions we were having at that time......

 

[ghostmade]

I know how things evolve so quickly

 

[3rdEye]

I'm still here. No in my 3 or 4th round of no-till or recycled soil i can testify to the beauty and sustainability and ease.

Although some recommend not having any uncomposted materials in their containers i would say keep live worms in your bins and you won't have to worry much.

A quick note on cloning for anyone reading. You don't even need most of what people have told you. Aloe, peat moss/soil-like medium/aeration. That's it. I've been getting close to 100% success rate.

Great thread xmobotx

 

[bootea]

N

My sprouted barley I do 2 ways.... sometimes I aerate similar to a kelp/alfalfa/EWC tea... pouring out the first days water to rid the seed coats growth inhibitors, fresh water added at seed crack and 2 days later, THAT is my tea.....

The 2nd method, I actually take advantage of the growth hormones to ensure a higher germination rate on my canna seeds.... I place my barley in a pie tin, inside a cloth... keep it moist until the barley begins to sprout. At this point I have a threadbare dishcloth I place my cannabis seeds in and place next to the barley seed's cloth.... The growth hormones from the barley seem to sprout my seeds much more rapidly... I also just slightly scuff my seeds with 600 grit auto sandpaper to allow moisture to penetrate more readily..... almost perfect germination rates so far....

Do you have a lot of beer making in your back ground?

 

[wwfjdraw]

Now that's what I call impressive popularity with a thread. In reception to this thread, I have started companion planting.

I have planted a mix of regular and african marigolds with my cannabis in the same coco pots (interplanting). I want a system that is based on a "minimum". What I mean by a minimum is I have very little room as it is in my grow box, and I only want the smallest amount of companion plants in taking up room inside of it.

I did marigolds to keep out the root bugs, and I will be planting some mint for the spider mites that marigolds attract. I will be planting some Roman (not German, (space concerned)) Chamomile and stinging nettle for nutrient benefits.

My questions for all watchers of this wonderful topic are as follows:

1: Because I am looking for the best space saving companion plants, what are the basics that are easy to grow, do the most (IE: "do the most": As in gets rid of the most bugs)? I just want the worlds shortest list of companion plants to cover all the possible bugs that could hurt my cannabis, but I want to have as few plants as possible to achieve this.

2: Although I am using Advanced nutrients PH perfect for my nutrients, I currently am planning for my next grow a cheaper option for nutrients, and something just as easy when in regards to not worrying about setting ph or anything, and it looks like companion planting might be a good way to do it according to someone on youtube known famously as theo m in regards to nettle and cannabis inter planted. But another thing I found as easy in regards to nutrients is using a "Living Soil", with the "Living Soil" trick, all you have to do is, feed the soil not the plant, and it is the cheapest method other than companion planting with stinging nettle I have ever seen, what is more impressive is ph and everything is taken care of with the "Living Soil" trick. And best part is, no root removal ever. Instead all you do is cut the plant off the stem and let the soil eat the roots left over and use roots as fuel to feed the soil even more which should provide nutrients for the next plant and so on. But from what I hear you need bugs for this to work. I was wondering is it possible to do this without the use of bugs? Like have a living soil I mean based off of nutrients made from companion planting and/or super soil, so that I can just keep the same soil over and over and let the nutrients keep feeding the plants, the plants keep feeding each other and then the roots feeding the soil to let the process never end. But again without bugs?

3: If it is not possible to do a bugless living soil then is it possible to have another alternative to recycling the dead roots by the same easiness as mentioned in the example of cutting the stem and after taking the plant out to harvest then leaving the roots to rot and become nutrients?

I originally wanted to do a super soil, then after reading online a super coco sounded better, then after researching companion planting seems to good to miss out on in regards to bug safety and nutrient feeds. And feeding the soil not the plant in regards to having perfect ph and letting the roots stay after harvest.

But again I hate the idea of adding to many plants to my interplanting.
In a perfect world I have coco over soil,
In a perfect world I have my roots left,
In a perfect world I have no concerns over feeding nutrients, other than feeding the soil, or at the least I can do a super coco and never have to worry about feeding or ph.
In a perfect world I have only 1 or two companion plants to take care of everything or almost everything.

So how many out of 4 examples of a perfect world above are possible with as little bugs and plants necessary?

 

[ghostmade]

Now that's what I call impressive popularity with a thread. In reception to this thread, I have started companion planting.

I have planted a mix of regular and african marigolds with my cannabis in the same coco pots (interplanting). I want a system that is based on a "minimum". What I mean by a minimum is I have very little room as it is in my grow box, and I only want the smallest amount of companion plants in taking up room inside of it.

I did marigolds to keep out the root bugs, and I will be planting some mint for the spider mites that marigolds attract. I will be planting some Roman (not German, (space concerned)) Chamomile and stinging nettle for nutrient benefits.

My questions for all watchers of this wonderful topic are as follows:

1: Because I am looking for the best space saving companion plants, what are the basics that are easy to grow, do the most (IE: "do the most": As in gets rid of the most bugs)? I just want the worlds shortest list of companion plants to cover all the possible bugs that could hurt my cannabis, but I want to have as few plants as possible to achieve this.

2: Although I am using Advanced nutrients PH perfect for my nutrients, I currently am planning for my next grow a cheaper option for nutrients, and something just as easy when in regards to not worrying about setting ph or anything, and it looks like companion planting might be a good way to do it according to someone on youtube known famously as theo m in regards to nettle and cannabis inter planted. But another thing I found as easy in regards to nutrients is using a "Living Soil", with the "Living Soil" trick, all you have to do is, feed the soil not the plant, and it is the cheapest method other than companion planting with stinging nettle I have ever seen, what is more impressive is ph and everything is taken care of with the "Living Soil" trick. And best part is, no root removal ever. Instead all you do is cut the plant off the stem and let the soil eat the roots left over and use roots as fuel to feed the soil even more which should provide nutrients for the next plant and so on. But from what I hear you need bugs for this to work. I was wondering is it possible to do this without the use of bugs? Like have a living soil I mean based off of nutrients made from companion planting and/or super soil, so that I can just keep the same soil over and over and let the nutrients keep feeding the plants, the plants keep feeding each other and then the roots feeding the soil to let the process never end. But again without bugs?

3: If it is not possible to do a bugless living soil then is it possible to have another alternative to recycling the dead roots by the same easiness as mentioned in the example of cutting the stem and after taking the plant out to harvest then leaving the roots to rot and become nutrients?

I originally wanted to do a super soil, then after reading online a super coco sounded better, then after researching companion planting seems to good to miss out on in regards to bug safety and nutrient feeds. And feeding the soil not the plant in regards to having perfect ph and letting the roots stay after harvest.

But again I hate the idea of adding to many plants to my interplanting.
In a perfect world I have coco over soil,
In a perfect world I have my roots left,
In a perfect world I have no concerns over feeding nutrients, other than feeding the soil, or at the least I can do a super coco and never have to worry about feeding or ph.
In a perfect world I have only 1 or two companion plants to take care of everything or almost everything.

So how many out of 4 examples of a perfect world above are possible with as little bugs and plants necessary?

start your own thread. And post a link here

 

[Organic Weed]

Hey X I love what you are doing and I started doing it on my own during this may last on-going cycle...
One question: do you use or have you tried to build "High brix soil" or "supersoil"? Basically what you are doing is recreating a natural and living environment as much much as possible... however, this does not necessarily mean that the plant will reach its maximum growth and development potential... to do that, we all know it's a combination of factors (T, light, humidity, etc..) and the soil occupies a considerable amount of that space... however, achieving maximum potential = maximising growth and potency = better medicine.

Apparently the "High brix" approach has a lot to deal with that and high brix is not just a random soil, but a soil with specific element ratio:

Ca:Mn:K:N = 18:2:2:1:0.3

So Ca needs to be 18 times higher than K. Mn and P need to be twice and K. N must be pretty low. A good relation is:

Calcium 2,243 mg/dm3
Magnesium 224 mg/dm3
Phosphate 224 mg/dm3
Potassium 112 mg/dm3
Nitrate N 22 mg/dm3 + Ammonia N 22 mg/dm3 = N 44 mg/dm3

This requires at least 2 lab analysis... the first one before recycling the soil and the second one after having included amendments... Any experience with that? Any ideas?

 

[xmobotx]

hey wwfjdraw the very concept of living soil is that there are living organisms within the soil to the degree that the soil itself seems full of life. This as stark contrast to methods which employ pesticides and/or herbicides where very little life remains in the soil. Hence, it also implies a scenario where the boom/bust cycles can be an initial part of the soil life finding balance. e.g. between predator and prey ~you could hand-pick the higher order "bugs" if you wanted to minimize them but, for some the idea that any biology is going on might be too much within their home. FTMP, you have to consider your soil pretty closely to see much biology happening {though occasionally higher order predators may be drawn} these insects are part of the natural balance in living systems but may not be totally necessary to a living soil system ~though keeping populations controlled w/o relying on natural boom/bust has clearly proven to be something of an undertaking for the control minded

Organic Weed brix gardening seems like an interesting field to me. for many fruit farmers, brix is a valuable metric & employed to grow sweet juicy produce. But, the claim that hi-brix plants w/ proper sap pH are insect-proof powerhouses of optimum production is where the controversy can start.

i borrowed from some of the foliar ideas & did my own versions. I alternated a cal-phos foliar {made by bubbling a TBS of cal-phos to a gal of water in my CT brewer for a few hours then straining in to my sprayer} w/ LOS' famous "kelp-falfa sprench" {same as cal-phos brew but 1/2 TBS ea of kelp meal and alfalfa meal} at the flip, this plant received a foliar of k-sil, aloe and ful-power {only one} and foliar was discontinued once flower set began

at some point when the plant was small, a foliar of doc bronners was applied to discourage grasshoppers

this experiment had little to no insect pressure. showed as good a vigor as i have seen & produced well. I'm not great at quantifying to say "x% better" or "x gpw" and the like. but, i intend to continue to utilize those foliars as the results are encouraging

for soil; as a result of a test from logan labs, i added equal parts un-amended soil mix {peat pumice and 10% EWC} to my ROLS mix {as it was "hot"} then a small amount of cal-phos and some trace minerals from DTE were applied. this was utilized in the container phase but the teen plants went in to landscape soil in an outdoor setup

 

[3rdEye]

Nice work. good to see you trucking along xmobotx

 

[heady blunts]

am i not tagged in? crazy.

 

[JediMasterVon]

6 row malted barley powder delivers more enzymes that the SST to the soil.

Anyone using it.

It is also much cheaper and less time consuming to use.

V

 

[Weird]

I just want to add a little non controversial information to untangle the different emerging organic trends as I understand it, because I feel the polarity in the approaches are limiting the overall benefit.

Brix is a measurement, how you achieve that soil balance is a different animal.

You can have a LOS no till with plants that have a perfect Brix measurement.

Certain brix measurements are parallel with plants at prime health. The properties of a plant in prime health are much hardier, period. Certain environments (like the PNW) have hard environmental stresses like PM, root aphids, etc. so the minute a plant is not in prime health they are exploited.

At some point people will be measuring brix levels long enough they will get an eye for a plant when it is at those levels.

You can mine minerals, you can collect them from sustainable sources like the sea and from plants.

Even though I live by the sea I prefer plant meals to keep my soil fed because I can easily transition to fulfilling my own needs that way and have begun to do so.

How people approach organics becomes relevant to too many conditions to set any one standard.

I did find the troubles I had with LOS were not impossible to address using LOS methodology as presented here (instead of from general permaculture or biodynamic forums)

Outdoors and indoors, food, flowers or otherwise, i use last seasons results as a parameter of soil performance. If I were looking to produce on existing acreage I would be reading my soil first to come up with a strategy, if I were building a soil I would build it before reading it or go on the readings from the last time I ran it, either lab or anecdotal.

 

[MJtheIndicator]

i borrowed from some of the foliar ideas & did my own versions. I alternated a cal-phos foliar {made by bubbling a TBS of cal-phos to a gal of water in my CT brewer for a few hours then straining in to my sprayer} w/ LOS' famous "kelp-falfa sprench" {same as cal-phos brew but 1/2 TBS ea of kelp meal and alfalfa meal} at the flip, this plant received a foliar of k-sil, aloe and ful-power {only one} and foliar was discontinued once flower set began

May I ask the species of aloe being used, just curious