Living organic soil from start through recycling

[jerry111165]

Soil Organic Matter has some anion holding capacity, I've read. Cation Exchange Simplified

I gather that SOM is not-yet-compost, etc

Rrog I'm so sorry man my thick thumbs hit the the "no" instead of the "yes" on the post rating sorry man *lol*

Luv my iPhone but miss my blackberry
"real buttons" keyboard.

J

 

[rrog]

More liming / water discussion

USU.edu water discussion

Link supplied by our pal VerdantGreen in this thread Liming Thread

 

[jerry111165]

This is another good read on the cec subject.

Somewhat easier for stonefish minds like mine *lol*

http://www.soilminerals.com/Cation_Exchange_Simplified.htm

J

 

[rrog]

CC, Concentrates NW will sell to individuals, however, right??

 

[ClackamasCootz]

miss my blackberry

"real buttons" keyboard.

J

Get 'em while they're cheap!

 

[ClackamasCootz]

CC, Concentrates NW will sell to individuals, however, right??

They sell to anyone, i.e. they're not like the assholes at the nursery supply houses who live and die by your 'card'

In fact the addition of their bulk products was a good indication that they're interested in working with home gardeners though the commercial organic farmers remain their biggest customers.

And the experimenters like myself - they love me! LOL

CC

 

[rrog]

I'm sure they find you a hoot, Coot!

"Pure Humic acids, VAM and pure Fulvic acids..." With competent compost, these wouldn't be necessary, right?

 

[all natural]

Thanks for that CC!!

I will go get some bentonite clay tomorrow. How much of this should I add to my soil? Like 10% clay?

I have been to Concentrates a few times, they have always been pretty nice but each time I knew what i was there for so I didn't bother them too much. I am small scale as Im in a 1 bedroom apt but luckily have a storage area directly next to the apt where i keep all my soil and other stuff. otherwise i dont think the gf would be cool with 50 pound bags of rock dust, guanos, etc. I have the gaia green glacial rock dust from there. I have 50# of oyster shell flour, srp, live earth humates, greensand, 22 lbs of seabird guano and a giant tub of bat guano. All great deals but way more than i can use at this time.

Does Naomi's have the same myco? Its a little closer than concentrates for me since they moved. Ive used concentrates mycos before and luckily I guessed right and got the all endo kind. But I have since run out and have been using the extreme gardening brand that i get from ace hardware haha.

 

[all natural]

One other question CC. I was browsing the bioag site and will be ordering the ful-power. I was wondering if you thought the VAM-endo or the Mycos from concentrates were a better product? Or maybe both would be best?

 

[ClackamasCootz]

"Pure Humic acids, VAM and pure Fulvic acids..." With competent compost, these wouldn't be necessary, right?

rrog

That's a mine field. But maybe looking at the humic and fulvic acids as an insurance policy is helpful.

BioAg Ful-Humix (pure humic acid) costs $12.00 for 100 grams which includes shipping, i.e. that's your landed cost. Their suggested application rate for soil and container plants is 0.5 - 1 gram to 1 gallon of water so that's going to cost you $.06 - $.12 per gallon and this is true humic acid and not Leonardite or leonardite that's just suspended in water using sugars to achieve aqueous suspension which doesn't translate into 'liquid humic acid' contrary to the labels on many retail products.

On their pure Fulvic acid, the way that Dr. Faust and Zadow explain it is that the small molecules of Fulvic acid can and are absorbed by the plant's roots but equally important they can be absorbed through the leaves via foliar sprays. That is their suggested application method, BTW

Once inside a plant's vascular system, Fulvic acid triggers DNA responses in that plant, i.e. this is not a 'fertilizer' per se. It does a number of other functions but this is the one that stuck in my mind.

I take their human food-grade Fulvic acid (Wu Jin San) each morning as well as my Lab which has arthritis in her hips. She also gets kelp meal, aloe vera powder and alfalfa caps for this condition.

I personally feel that their humate products are world class and priced extremely fair.

Your call - LOL

CC

 

[ClackamasCootz]

all natural

Naomi M. started at Concentrates 3+ years ago before she opened her own business on SE McLaughlin. She has the same suppliers (for the most part) that she used previously. She did sell the same endo mix as Concentrates at this first store I haven't been to her new store. But there isn't this huge number of packers of these spores and even less that actually produce their own so it's not like a store has a huge number of manufacturers to choose from - lots of labels though.

RE: I've used BioAg VAM exclusively for almost 3 years. The endo mix from Mycorrhizal Applications is fine and widely used. I have a definite preference to BioAg because it's a 3 person operation owned by one of the greatest minds in Botany - over 50 years with a resume that would impress anyone. I can call their office anytime and speak to a scientist and not a 'customer service rep' - that alone is worth any price differences.

HTH

CC

 

[rrog]

This is a treasure trove of info, Coot. Thanks so much. I love the links and recommendations.

I fear I'll have limited access to quality peat in Michigan. I'll have to look

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Look for Premier Peat at DIY stores. Scrappy had another name Lambert which is available in the Upper Midwest

HTH

 

[Scrappy4]

This is a treasure trove of info, Coot. Thanks so much. I love the links and recommendations.

I fear I'll have limited access to quality peat in Michigan. I'll have to look

What part of the state do you live rrog? Pro mix is easy to find for me too along with the two Cootz mentioned.....scrappy

 

[all natural]

OK I will go with the VAM. Thanks for these recommendations CC. I think this thread alone may have helped to improve my soil tenfold.

So the ful-humix should be used as a root drench and the ful-power as a foliar spray?

 

[ClackamasCootz]

So the ful-humix should be used as a root drench and the ful-power as a foliar spray?

Yes - but keep this in mind. These products are the real deal and not what you find in retail products. High-dosing will cause you a slew of problems too many to list.

This not a 'nute company' in any way. They were around for years before they signed up with NGW to distribute some of their products - about 3 or 4 I believe. Actually at the better grow stores in Portland you can buy their humic acid, a seaweed extract powder with humic acid (I can't recall the name) and their Ful-Power for less money than ordering direct. Unfortunately they do not offer their VAM product through the grow stores.

Send them an email and ask about the problems associated with high-levels of Fulvic acid (in particular) in the soil. It'll be worth your time and effort.

 

[jerry111165]

At a quartèr teaspoon per gallon those BioAg products last about forever, and as often as you're supposed to use them they last even longer.

I have several of thier assorted products - Ful Power & Cyto Plus. I'm scared to use them very often in a no till situation. They can make for some really freaky plants if used in excess. I bet the 2 little envelopes I have last 10 years - maybe longer.

J

 

[ClackamasCootz]

jerry

Since an answer from BioAg would be helpful, I sent an email and asked for clarification on application when one is using a legitimate soil like you are (CoC, your own thermal compost and EWC) - IOW, not a retail bagged soil product from a hydro store.

I'll have answer this morning and I mentioned that I would be posting their answer on a forum so I'm confident that we'll have their input and explanation that you and others (myself included) will find helpful.

CC

 

[BlueJayWay]

Props to all involved with the inputs in this thread, a treasure trove of info and obviously years of experience in soil biology to back it. If anyone has the mind to pay attention, listen up, this is the place for true organic living (reused) soil gardens!

FYI for a couple items in this thread, for a pure aloe vera "juice" available @ the retail level, I found a brand @ Clarks nutrition center in Loma Linda CA called "Georges" (when I get back to the house I'll look at the label and post exactly what it is and if they have a website) it's organic and actually 100% aloe, no sodium benzoate/citric acid etc. and the ladies absolutely loved their first foliar of it.

Also, for those that can't source items like nettle locally, or you want to try some botanicals before you have your own growing (like myself!) try www.mountainroseherbs.com I'm sure it's not the most economical, but $15 or less for a pound of dried organic nettle/comfrey/horsetail that'll still last plenty for adding into teas so for me it was worth it, and i also picked up a little bentonite clay to add to the mix.

Clacka, Gasca & the others, DUDE, thanks for the wealth of information, helping me take my reused soil mix to the next level for sure, each run gets better and better and all i'm buying is plant meals/minerals. I want to order the bock14, i'm assuming it'll grow back after snow/cold season? I'm wondering how it's deep tap root will handle mountain granite soil though (or lack thereof).

 

[shmalphy]

I have used the tm7 product from bioag with great results