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    Originally posted by all natural View Post

    So the ful-humix should be used as a root drench and the ful-power as a foliar spray?
    Yes - but keep this in mind. These products are the real deal and not what you find in retail products. High-dosing will cause you a slew of problems too many to list.

    This not a 'nute company' in any way. They were around for years before they signed up with NGW to distribute some of their products - about 3 or 4 I believe. Actually at the better grow stores in Portland you can buy their humic acid, a seaweed extract powder with humic acid (I can't recall the name) and their Ful-Power for less money than ordering direct. Unfortunately they do not offer their VAM product through the grow stores.

    Send them an email and ask about the problems associated with high-levels of Fulvic acid (in particular) in the soil. It'll be worth your time and effort.

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      At a quartèr teaspoon per gallon those BioAg products last about forever, and as often as you're supposed to use them they last even longer.

      I have several of thier assorted products - Ful Power & Cyto Plus. I'm scared to use them very often in a no till situation. They can make for some really freaky plants if used in excess. I bet the 2 little envelopes I have last 10 years - maybe longer.

      J

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        jerry

        Since an answer from BioAg would be helpful, I sent an email and asked for clarification on application when one is using a legitimate soil like you are (CoC, your own thermal compost and EWC) - IOW, not a retail bagged soil product from a hydro store.

        I'll have answer this morning and I mentioned that I would be posting their answer on a forum so I'm confident that we'll have their input and explanation that you and others (myself included) will find helpful.

        CC

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          Props to all involved with the inputs in this thread, a treasure trove of info and obviously years of experience in soil biology to back it. If anyone has the mind to pay attention, listen up, this is the place for true organic living (reused) soil gardens!

          FYI for a couple items in this thread, for a pure aloe vera "juice" available @ the retail level, I found a brand @ Clarks nutrition center in Loma Linda CA called "Georges" (when I get back to the house I'll look at the label and post exactly what it is and if they have a website) it's organic and actually 100% aloe, no sodium benzoate/citric acid etc. and the ladies absolutely loved their first foliar of it.

          Also, for those that can't source items like nettle locally, or you want to try some botanicals before you have your own growing (like myself!) try www.mountainroseherbs.com I'm sure it's not the most economical, but $15 or less for a pound of dried organic nettle/comfrey/horsetail that'll still last plenty for adding into teas so for me it was worth it, and i also picked up a little bentonite clay to add to the mix.

          Clacka, Gasca & the others, DUDE, thanks for the wealth of information, helping me take my reused soil mix to the next level for sure, each run gets better and better and all i'm buying is plant meals/minerals. I want to order the bock14, i'm assuming it'll grow back after snow/cold season? I'm wondering how it's deep tap root will handle mountain granite soil though (or lack thereof).

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            I have used the tm7 product from bioag with great results

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              Originally posted by DARC MIND View Post
              but arnt humic substances capable of taking out some of the cal and mag ions that would make water "hard"?

              peat has a softening effect in water?
              In my direct experience using it as a filtration media, absolutely it does.
              Originally posted by YosemiteSam View Post
              If the water hardness is CaCO3 you can make it available in water by acidifying the water. For example if you use nitric acid the reaction would be:

              CaCO3 + 2HNO3 = Ca(NO3)2 + H2O + CO2

              by the time you lower the pH to 4.5 it all would become available. So if you don't want that free Ca leave your water pH above 7

              sorry about that...can't help myself sometimes
              So it IS possible to 'break' the molecule and make that Ca available! Does it matter which acid you use..? For example, my recipe for disaster involves freezing acetic acid three times in order to distill or concentrate it (to what acidity at the final extraction I don't yet know). Assuming it's sufficiently acid enough, what you're suggesting is that I can break the CO3 bond with Ca (or Mg..?) which would make all this Ca I think is in the water column available for plant uptake.

              I'll have to keep this stuff away from Black Chasm.

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                But if we keep the pH up, the Ca+ stays locked up, unless there's some other soil-based mechanism to free the Ca+
                __________________



                OVERGROW with SOIL

                Fully Medical MJ Compliant

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                  Once again - strike up the band!

                  Acetic acid is a herbicide All. Day. Long.

                  Science is science. Chemistry is chemistry. Reality is reality.

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                    I want to order the bock14, i'm assuming it'll grow back after snow/cold season?

                    Mulch with a quality straw or hay before the first frost. Regardless - you can not kill this plant once it's established. Ever. Never.

                    Local price for removal of an established Bocking 14 plant > $350.00 with no guarantees

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                      damn thats alot for a focking plant removal

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                        15' roots - deeper than most fruit trees

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                          Originally posted by BlueJayWay View Post

                          FYI for a couple items in this thread, for a pure aloe vera "juice" available @ the retail level, I found a brand @ Clarks nutrition center in Loma Linda CA called "Georges" (when I get back to the house I'll look at the label and post exactly what it is and if they have a website) it's organic and actually 100% aloe, no sodium benzoate/citric acid etc. and the ladies absolutely loved their first foliar of it.
                          BlueJayWay

                          Let me address that specific product for a minute of your time. This product was the 2nd Aloe vera product that I used and continued to use for several months.

                          What their extraction method involves is to remove the polysaccharides from the juice which along with Benzoic acid causes the almost instant fermenting that takes place without using a preservative after extraction.

                          So the question that I had (have) was this: Since this compound group is an important compound in other soil amendments such as Chitin in lobster, shrimp and crab shells, does the removal affect the benefit?

                          I don't have an answer to that one and have been unable to find anything one way or the other. Even at the agriculture and horticulture sites in Australia where the use of Aloe vera is a standard material I came up empty-handed.

                          That's all I know about that - Forrest Clackamas Gump

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                            Originally posted by ClackamasCootz View Post
                            Once again - strike up the band!

                            Acetic acid is a herbicide All. Day. Long.

                            Science is science. Chemistry is chemistry. Reality is reality.
                            Perception is reality. But that's not that makes this awesome. I've got some bull thistle coming up *again* that I can't quite get down to, but I can shoot some of this stuff at 'em. In fact, I have a whole bunch of thick, persistent weeds coming up that I need to control but am not able to wrangle the big weedeater. I won't use Round-Up and it is the wrong time of year to begin using flame-weeding.
                            Originally posted by ClackamasCootz View Post
                            I want to order the bock14, i'm assuming it'll grow back after snow/cold season?

                            Mulch with a quality straw or hay before the first frost. Regardless - you can not kill this plant once it's established. Ever. Never.

                            Local price for removal of an established Bocking 14 plant > $350.00 with no guarantees
                            Why wouldn't the acetic acid work here? How about for persistent berry brambles? Poison oak? Now THAT stuff is persistent.

                            Comment


                              Acetic acid as found in what is sold as 'horticulture vinegar' kills everything above the soil line because it will not fall deep enough into the soil to kill the roots.

                              However if one is persistent you could drench the soil and kill the roots.

                              The reason that it would not kill the Bocking 14 plant is that unless you can get that acid down at least 5 feet in sufficient quantities the plant will push upward and re-establish itself.

                              The Bocking 14 roots I planted 15 months back have roots just below the crown that are 2" in diameter - at the soil surface.

                              "plan your work - work your plan" on site selection

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                                I chose directly underneath a rather old pine, where little else but native weeds grow, as my site selection. Part of the reason why I chose it is because the dog and cats like to take a shortcut through it, and I've read of comfrey's persistence, figured it, the pine and the animals should be a happy union, plus I won't care so much as the dog mows it down running in her excitement.

                                I really, seriously detest the yellow star and bull thistles.

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