Cheap Nutrient Line for Commercial and Home Grows?

[f-e]

Transparent may turn green. I keep mine within the res, so it's dark and any drips from opening it are contained. The filter on my circulator pump catches everything though, as it's on 24/7 not just a few minutes.

I get black stuff floats about. Perhaps from the bio acids and h2o2 combination. Perhaps mould. It needs filtering. It would block my drippers.

 

[BillFarthing]

If you are using strong oxidizers like hypochlorous acid or peroxide, use anything with organic matter (kelp, fulvic etc.) as a foliar for the same benefits.

 

[Glaucksbacon]

If you are using strong oxidizers like hypochlorous acid or peroxide, use anything with organic matter (kelp, fulvic etc.) as a foliar for the same benefits.

Yeah Bill, I see what you mean, I may run a filter and no rez cleaning type additive so I can keep running the fulvic in the rez, I'm trying to avoid adding foliar spraying to my list of things to do, as I'm asleep when my lights go off. Mr Fulvic @ 1ml/gal was the only change I made to make my end product the loudest it's ever been. But I also decided to use the big res I bought when I go on vacation only, keeping the turnover high when possible. Otherwise the blumats seem to be going fine so far.

f-e, my plan was to stick a transparent style one right over the pump, still in the res as you say. which micron filter does the peanut gallery recommend? 40/100? My circulation pump in my floor res is constantly flooding/draining the blumats' gravity res, I love my res setup and I'll like it even more when it's better filtered.

Oh another silly problem I've run into: how should I weigh my flood and drain return hose down? the thing keeps wanting to curve upwards and spray my res lid, leading to leaks. A brick? an old pump?

 

[BillFarthing]

I may run a filter and no rez cleaning type additive so I can keep running the fulvic in the rez

I hate to be blunt, but biofilm isn't useful for plants. You are filtering out the nutes and additives you paid for. You can't have both organics and oxidizers in the same solution. That's why Athena, Cultured Solutions and Cleangrow are straight salts with hypochlorous acid.

 

[Glaucksbacon]

I hate to be blunt, but biofilm isn't useful for plants. You are filtering out the nutes and additives you paid for. You can't have both organics and oxidizers in the same solution. That's why Athena, Cultured Solutions and Cleangrow are straight salts with hypochlorous acid.

Not blunt at all Bill, I'm not entitled to your expertise and experience and I appreciate anything you have to add. I'm doing a lot of this for the first time so I'm just happy to have someone to bounce thoughts off of. I agree that the biofilm needs to be avoided, the immediate particulate fallout in the rez after I added it made that very apparent. I was pretty surprised at how fast things went slimy and floaty.

So you think I won't get away with using Jacks321 @ 90% + Mr fulvic and nothing else in the rez? No more hypochlorous acid? I'm definitely not married to it like I am Mr Fulvic. I'm running though 5 gallons a day it seems, so I'd (naively hope?) think that there wouldn't be much time for biofilm to develop, with twice a month cleanings. I'm trying to avoid spraying anything in flower so I'd really like to avoid foliar fulvic.



There's the current rez setup, the gravity bit up top is the only part exposed to light, and it quickly runs back down when it gets to the higher drain there. I'm noticing a bit of sediment settling down in the top tub, which is easy to vacuum up as needed. That's the big reason I'd like a filter, maybe the bigger mesh wouldn't filter out nutrients so much? My thought is that if it's as soluble as it should be it shouldn't get caught. It looks to be bits of the crappy prefilter on the pond pump. Maybe I'll remove that and call it a day.

I'm thinking of painting or taping up the top tub so that only a stripe is visible to confirm everything is functioning. I'll probably get a plastic ruler to gauge how many gallons I have in the bottom rez. When this room's lights are off and the tents are closed the gravity part of the res is in the dark, the vast majority of the day. If anyone sees any glaring problems I'd love to hear them!

Thanks for reading my stream of consciousness drivel everyone!

 

[BillFarthing]

biofilm needs to be avoided . . . So you think I won't get away with using Jacks321 @ 90% + Mr fulvic and nothing else in the rez? No more hypochlorous acid? . . . twice a month cleanings. I'm trying to avoid spraying anything in flower so I'd really like to avoid foliar fulvic.

I'm thinking of painting or taping up the top tub so that only a stripe is visible to confirm everything is functioning. I'll probably get a plastic ruler to gauge how many gallons I have in the bottom rez.

Jack's and Mr. Fulvic is sterile. If you bleach your rez during cleanouts, you should be a-ok.

I don't spray anything in flower, but at the end of the day, fulvic is just isolated dirt. You could rinse it off with room temp water with no residuals theoretically.

Just keep light out of your rez and it sounds like you should be set.

 

[Glaucksbacon]

Jack's and Mr. Fulvic is sterile. If you bleach your rez during cleanouts, you should be a-ok.

I don't spray anything in flower, but at the end of the day, fulvic is just isolated dirt. You could rinse it off with room temp water with no residuals theoretically.

Just keep light out of your rez and it sounds like you should be set.

Oh man I was hoping you were going to say that Bill. I was on the fence whether Mr Fulvic could be considered organic with its contents. Should I avoid using that bamboo vinegar in the res or is that sterile by way of its manufacture method? And can I assume that PeKacid would have the same nasty effect as hypochlorous acid?

I was thinking of finding a black bag to put over the upper gravity res, its small enough. I need to think of something for that yellow res lid, not a fan of that. but again its not like the light is on it more than a couple hours a day. I put in a stir pump that's 260gph or something, the water up and fall down wasn't very fast when the res gets full, and the 5 gal bucket was too small to bother with.

Thanks for letting me pick your brain Bill.

 

[BillFarthing]

Mr Fulvic could be considered organic with its contents. Should I avoid using that bamboo vinegar in the res or is that sterile by way of its manufacture method? And can I assume that PeKacid would have the same nasty effect as hypochlorous acid?

Mr. Fulvic is OMRI organic. Bamboo vinegar- It's great for soil pathogens and IPM. I overdid it with soil drench and ended up with brittle stems one round. The flower quality didn't suffer, though.

I actually use PeKacid in some of my fertilizer formulations, which still plays well with organics. I think it's just really acidic, so keep an eye on it if you use it for drip lines.

 

[CannaRed]

Bill, I was wondering what you thought of this article from Kieth Morrow and if it changes anything in your formula.
from this site:https://www.cannabisbusinesstimes.com/article/theories-that-were/

Humming on Humic Acid
The second “best practice” that was eventually disproven in my book relates to the use and application of humic acid on cannabis plants—more specifically, humic acid derived from pure, mined mineral-rich organic plant active humates. (Humates have been shown to regulate the flow and enhance the transport of nutrients for some plants in certain cropping/growing systems.) In my book, I mention a commercial form of humic acid advertised as “[accelerating] nutrient absorption at the root boundary zone, where minerals enter the plant,” which continued into “Excellent for indoor and outdoor use.”

For a grower like myself focused on healthy plant growth, all these promises sounded fantastic and logical. Humic acid has been used on other crops for the purpose of increasing nutrient uptake and stimulating plant growth—why wouldn’t it work for cannabis?

While it is true concerning many other plants, it seems humic acid may have unwanted effects on the cannabis plant. A June 2019 study published in Frontiers in Plant Science titled “Impact of N,P,K, and Humic Acid Supplementation on the Chemical Profile of Medical Cannabis (Cannabis sativa L)” sheds light on the fact that humic acid impacts cannabis in more ways than just overall plant health.

Among other findings, the authors discovered that humic acid “was found to reduce the natural spatial variability of all the cannabinoids studied. However, the increased uniformity came at the expense of the higher levels of cannabinoids at the top of the plants, and THC and CBD were reduced by 37% and 39%, respectively.”

I mention humic acid because once upon a time it was thought of as a beneficial enhancement. But when applied to the cannabis plant, humic acid, at least according to this most recent study, can negatively impact cannabinoid production.

In turn, this finding also makes me question the use and application of fulvic acid on cannabis plants. Fulvic acid is thought to accentuate the production of nucleic acids and photosynthesis—and even made an appearance in my book: “Fulvic Acid will supercharge the entire plant from the roots to the growing tips,” I wrote.

Now I’m left to wonder whether, like humic acid, fulvic acid comes with drawbacks when applied to cannabis plants?

Perhaps in the future, data such as this will be utilized to purposely produce or manipulate certain desired cannabinoids or terpenes. There is much to prove and disprove regarding cannabis and its production. And with more and more researchers turning their attention to cannabis, it is no surprise that some things that once were considered to be true have now been proven false.

Perhaps we should take the time to re-evaluate how we’ve come to some of our conclusions, and whether that certainty is warranted. The way I test myself when I form an opinion is to immediately attempt to prove myself wrong. But even if a given opinion survives thorough scrutiny, it remains an opinion until scientific data can support the claim and is repeatable in the real world, not just a lab.

Kenneth Morrow is an author, consultant and owner of Trichome Technologies. Facebook: TrichomeTechnologies Instagram: Trichome Technologies k.trichometechnologies@gmail.com

 

[BillFarthing]

That dude is just stirring the pot with unsound science. He also uses humic acid, which is not fulvic acid which he states himself. He's posing a question, not making any specific claims. Talk to a company that invests in the science and I am sure they will quickly show that joker otherwise.

 

[CannaRed]

That dude is just stirring the pot with unsound science. He also uses humic acid, which is not fulvic acid which he states himself. He's posing a question, not making any specific claims. Talk to a company that invests in the science and I am sure they will quickly show that joker otherwise.

I guess I should have asked what you thought of the study instead of Kens article.

I don't want you to think I'm stiring the pot either, I'm just asking someone much moreire experienced than I.

Thanks Bill!

 

[BillFarthing]

I must have missed where he linked the humic article? What year is it from? Did it use LAMAR (AOAC v. 97) or ISO for fulvic testing or is he using outdated testing and science? Does he link any science or studies from IHSS or HPTA trade associations?

Again, he is just stirring the pot.

 

[CannaRed]

I'm sorry I thought I posted link at bottom.
I'm losing it..
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles...736/full#ref22

No, no studies on fa only ha. I thought you used humic also.

 

[BillFarthing]

Nope. Soluble silica, Jacks or Masterblend, calcium nitrate, and Mr. Fulvic.

Fulvic acid is immediately bio-available. Humic acid is only suitable for long-term soil building for the carbon content and time it takes to break down to become available to plants.

 

[CannaRed]

What are you using for soluble silica? (We may have already discussed this in pm, if that was you, I apologize)
I have RecycleSil, BioNova Silution, Raw Silica.
I haven't bothered experimenting with it since I had to start taking care of my grandparents, but I was having hard time getting RecycleSil dissolved where it would show on ec meter.
Then I tried the solution, and I didn't wait a full 30 minutes and I had a smoking 5 gal bucket. Lol. That was crazy.

The Raw Silica n the mail is Silica dioxide.
I also have a bag of old potassium silicate powder that is now a brick.

​​​​​​Looking online I saw Aptus Fasilitator. Expensive!!
and I saw Power Si.
Most of the other brands are potassium silicate in solution like Protect, and armour si.
What's your poison? I'm guessing you aren't reaching for the Aptus with your Signature. Lol

 

[BillFarthing]

I use Grow Genius for the potency for the price. If it's not available in your state, PowerSi or MSA for monosilicic acid.

If you are really on a budget, potassium silicate, but you are going to spend time and money on pH down going that direction, which I really didn't want to mess with these last couple rounds.

If you are looking for a dry organic input, RecycleSil is good. I use rice hulls for aeration in coco and castings as a grow medium this last round. Horsetails work great if you are the KNF/JADAM type.

 

[CannaRed]

I use Grow Genius for the potency for the price. If it's not available in your state, PowerSi or MSA for monosilicic acid.

If you are really on a budget, potassium silicate, but you are going to spend time and money on pH down going that direction, which I really didn't want to mess with these last couple rounds.

If you are looking for a dry organic input, RecycleSil is good. I use rice hulls for aeration in coco and castings as a grow medium this last round. Horsetails work great if you are the KNF/JADAM type.

I got a bottle of PowerSi on the way. I mentioned this to someone yesterday and they said they did a "side by side" with protekt and PowerSi and he said he noticed nothing different.
I will do my own experimenting of course, but my question is this-. Have you ever done a side by side with no silica vs with silica?
It seems in theory it's an excellent supplement to the normal nutrients, but in practice I don't see a difference. That's why I want to try a good monosilicic acid so I could see if there was a difference when I'm using a plant available nutrient.
I've been reading that potassium silicate isn't plant available and takes 4-6 weeks to become available from the processing of microbial life.
I'm guessing it's same for silica dioxide?

I see a member that used to be on Icmag is on IG now. He used to post pics of the ultimate frosty strain I think it was called "machine gun funk". He's posting pics on IG advertising for Aptus saying the reason it's so frosty is because he uses Aptus Fasilitator. I commented asking if he had pics of the plant with out using Aptus. No response. I think it was genetics, but if it really was extra frost because of silica, that's silica that I don't want. Silica ash thru the screen in my lungs can't be good.

 

[maryjaneismyfre]

He has always posted mad resined up stuff, so it is genetics and also very strongly, grower skill...and silica helps..I dont know of any benefit for the orthosilicic acid over the potassium silicate as once in water as far as I understand it all splits up into ions and the silica is just as active in one form or the next..As far as I know the aim is to get ppm of silica in the feed solution to 20-50ppm range and the form is less relevant than the silica amount, then value comes into play and the potassium silicate is a lot better value for money..

Also the cell walls of the trichomes as far as i know are normally comprised of silica which is why weed is a silica whore, and the ash in your screen in anycase contains a fair amount of silica if the weed was nutritionally or genetically limited. More trichomes means more silica in the ash, and more silica (to a point) means more trichomes if every other need is met for the plant.

I use silica and would not grow without it, more for added PM resistance and the overall improved plant health, if the other needs are met. I also find things that generate an SAR response in the plant can also make a plant squeeze out that bit more resin..But in the end it all comes down to genetics..and the enviroment (ie grower) in that order. You can take a resinous clone and flower it out in crap environment and diet and it will still make more resin than a useless hay clone in the best environment and with the best diet..but they all play a part.

https://www.usgs.gov/media/images/wa...teraction-salt

https://www3.epa.gov/pesticides/chem...6_7-Oct-07.pdf

"2. Environmental Fate Assessment
When dissolved in water, the active ingredient potassium silicate dissociates into potassium
cations, hydroxide anions, and mono- and polysilicic acids. The active ingredient does not
contain any volatile organic compounds and will not degrade to any hazardous or
environmentally persistent breakdown products (NOSB/TAP, 2003). Dissolved soluble silica
from commercial sources will be indistinguishable from dissolved soluble silica from natural
sources and any soluble silica input into aquatic or terrestrial environments will be insignificant
in relation to the high flux of the natural silica cycle "

So it is my understanding from my general knowledge that the difference between orthosilicic acid and potassium silicate only exists in the minds of the silicic acid salespersons. I have read studies online looking at the difference between forms and they found none except, foliar is ineffectual compared to in the feed as silica is immobile in the plant so needs to be available all the time for its main benefit, and that the benefit was found to be greatest in feed with silica in the 20-50ppm range, irrespective of form and beyond that diminishing returns or counter productive..

https://www.mdpi.com/2223-7747/10/4/652/htm

"However, at the early stages of dissolution, the presence of polymeric species may account for approximately 50% (by mol) of total dissolved silica [76]. Polysilicic acid converts over time to monosilicic acid if the concentration is far below saturation, but with increasing silicic acid concentrations in solution, the polymerization of monosilicic acid to polysilicic acid occurs. Nevertheless, silicic acid in soil solution is not only available for plant uptake and can precipitate but may also bind to (secondary) minerals"

Poly and mono silicic acids will swing back and forth between the two forms of polymer chains trying to reach equilibrium, with when in an unsaturated solution, like our feed solutions, they will want to swing to be mono chains but the mono chains will also want to polymerise into poly chains...So one could add the purest mono orthosilicic and it would want to polymerise into non available forms, but most would be available, and likewise as a salt of and it would dissociate and most of the silica would be available as monosilicic acid and be want to find the same equilibrium of ratio between the mono and poly forms..

But I stand to be corrected as always..

 

[aikaramba]

BillFarthing

Thanks for all the great info you've been providing in this thread. I'm in Europe and was glad that BioAg started distribution in the EU. I'm using Ful-Power with great success but totally get your reasoning behind shipping water etc. I found a fulvic product available here named Fulvic 25 from PHC. They say it is sourced from dutch ground water but I have not found any ISO/LAMAR data and have not received any answer to my mail yet. From what I see, the pH is a lot higher than the Mr Fulvic/ AGT-50, but AgTonik provides AGT-50 on demand at higher pH as well. On the AGT-50 website it says pure fulvic has a CEC of 1400 mEq, could that be a hint that the Fulvic 25 (94-185 mEq~ 140mEq) is about 1:10 diluted pure fulvic, so10%? It also says 10,2% organic matter.
I'd be super greatful if yyou could take a look at this and tell me if this is something to work with.

Datasheet: https://www.phc.eu/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Fulvic-25-ENG-5.pdf

 

[RyanR]

Yo Bill. Thanks for all the good info.

Whats the consensus on using salicylic acid ( not aspirin)and triancontrol during flower? Have anyone used anything alike with worthwhile results? If not what about jasmonate methyl esters?

Looking to boost terpenes on the cheap without sacrificing weight. What's everyone's thoughts?


https://scienceinhydroponics.com/2017/06/salicylic-acid-positive-effect-in-hydroponics.html