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Cheap Nutrient Line for Commercial and Home Grows?

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  • CannaRed
    replied
    I'm sorry I thought I posted link at bottom.
    I'm losing it..
    https://www.frontiersin.org/articles...736/full#ref22

    No, no studies on fa only ha. I thought you used humic also.

    Leave a comment:


  • BillFarthing
    replied
    I must have missed where he linked the humic article? What year is it from? Did it use LAMAR (AOAC v. 97) or ISO for fulvic testing or is he using outdated testing and science? Does he link any science or studies from IHSS or HPTA trade associations?

    Again, he is just stirring the pot.

    Leave a comment:


  • CannaRed
    replied
    Originally posted by BillFarthing View Post
    That dude is just stirring the pot with unsound science. He also uses humic acid, which is not fulvic acid which he states himself. He's posing a question, not making any specific claims. Talk to a company that invests in the science and I am sure they will quickly show that joker otherwise.
    I guess I should have asked what you thought of the study instead of Kens article.

    I don't want you to think I'm stiring the pot either, I'm just asking someone much moreire experienced than I.

    Thanks Bill!

    Leave a comment:


  • BillFarthing
    replied
    That dude is just stirring the pot with unsound science. He also uses humic acid, which is not fulvic acid which he states himself. He's posing a question, not making any specific claims. Talk to a company that invests in the science and I am sure they will quickly show that joker otherwise.

    Leave a comment:


  • CannaRed
    replied
    Bill, I was wondering what you thought of this article from Kieth Morrow and if it changes anything in your formula.
    from this site:https://www.cannabisbusinesstimes.co...ies-that-were/
    Humming on Humic Acid
    The second “best practice” that was eventually disproven in my book relates to the use and application of humic acid on cannabis plants—more specifically, humic acid derived from pure, mined mineral-rich organic plant active humates. (Humates have been shown to regulate the flow and enhance the transport of nutrients for some plants in certain cropping/growing systems.) In my book, I mention a commercial form of humic acid advertised as “[accelerating] nutrient absorption at the root boundary zone, where minerals enter the plant,” which continued into “Excellent for indoor and outdoor use.”

    For a grower like myself focused on healthy plant growth, all these promises sounded fantastic and logical. Humic acid has been used on other crops for the purpose of increasing nutrient uptake and stimulating plant growth—why wouldn’t it work for cannabis?

    While it is true concerning many other plants, it seems humic acid may have unwanted effects on the cannabis plant. A June 2019 study published in Frontiers in Plant Science titled “Impact of N,P,K, and Humic Acid Supplementation on the Chemical Profile of Medical Cannabis (Cannabis sativa L)” sheds light on the fact that humic acid impacts cannabis in more ways than just overall plant health.

    Among other findings, the authors discovered that humic acid “was found to reduce the natural spatial variability of all the cannabinoids studied. However, the increased uniformity came at the expense of the higher levels of cannabinoids at the top of the plants, and THC and CBD were reduced by 37% and 39%, respectively.”

    I mention humic acid because once upon a time it was thought of as a beneficial enhancement. But when applied to the cannabis plant, humic acid, at least according to this most recent study, can negatively impact cannabinoid production.

    In turn, this finding also makes me question the use and application of fulvic acid on cannabis plants. Fulvic acid is thought to accentuate the production of nucleic acids and photosynthesis—and even made an appearance in my book: “Fulvic Acid will supercharge the entire plant from the roots to the growing tips,” I wrote.

    Now I’m left to wonder whether, like humic acid, fulvic acid comes with drawbacks when applied to cannabis plants?

    Perhaps in the future, data such as this will be utilized to purposely produce or manipulate certain desired cannabinoids or terpenes. There is much to prove and disprove regarding cannabis and its production. And with more and more researchers turning their attention to cannabis, it is no surprise that some things that once were considered to be true have now been proven false.

    Perhaps we should take the time to re-evaluate how we’ve come to some of our conclusions, and whether that certainty is warranted. The way I test myself when I form an opinion is to immediately attempt to prove myself wrong. But even if a given opinion survives thorough scrutiny, it remains an opinion until scientific data can support the claim and is repeatable in the real world, not just a lab.

    Kenneth Morrow is an author, consultant and owner of Trichome Technologies. Facebook: TrichomeTechnologies Instagram: Trichome Technologies k.trichometechnologies@gmail.c om

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  • BillFarthing
    replied
    Originally posted by Glaucksbacon View Post
    Mr Fulvic could be considered organic with its contents. Should I avoid using that bamboo vinegar in the res or is that sterile by way of its manufacture method? And can I assume that PeKacid would have the same nasty effect as hypochlorous acid?
    Mr. Fulvic is OMRI organic. Bamboo vinegar- It's great for soil pathogens and IPM. I overdid it with soil drench and ended up with brittle stems one round. The flower quality didn't suffer, though.

    I actually use PeKacid in some of my fertilizer formulations, which still plays well with organics. I think it's just really acidic, so keep an eye on it if you use it for drip lines.

    Leave a comment:


  • Glaucksbacon
    replied
    Originally posted by BillFarthing View Post

    Jack's and Mr. Fulvic is sterile. If you bleach your rez during cleanouts, you should be a-ok.

    I don't spray anything in flower, but at the end of the day, fulvic is just isolated dirt. You could rinse it off with room temp water with no residuals theoretically.

    Just keep light out of your rez and it sounds like you should be set.
    Oh man I was hoping you were going to say that Bill. I was on the fence whether Mr Fulvic could be considered organic with its contents. Should I avoid using that bamboo vinegar in the res or is that sterile by way of its manufacture method? And can I assume that PeKacid would have the same nasty effect as hypochlorous acid?

    I was thinking of finding a black bag to put over the upper gravity res, its small enough. I need to think of something for that yellow res lid, not a fan of that. but again its not like the light is on it more than a couple hours a day. I put in a stir pump that's 260gph or something, the water up and fall down wasn't very fast when the res gets full, and the 5 gal bucket was too small to bother with.

    Thanks for letting me pick your brain Bill.
    Last edited by Glaucksbacon; 09-01-2021, 09:06.

    Leave a comment:


  • BillFarthing
    replied
    Originally posted by Glaucksbacon View Post
    biofilm needs to be avoided . . . So you think I won't get away with using Jacks321 @ 90% + Mr fulvic and nothing else in the rez? No more hypochlorous acid? . . . twice a month cleanings. I'm trying to avoid spraying anything in flower so I'd really like to avoid foliar fulvic.

    I'm thinking of painting or taping up the top tub so that only a stripe is visible to confirm everything is functioning. I'll probably get a plastic ruler to gauge how many gallons I have in the bottom rez.
    Jack's and Mr. Fulvic is sterile. If you bleach your rez during cleanouts, you should be a-ok.

    I don't spray anything in flower, but at the end of the day, fulvic is just isolated dirt. You could rinse it off with room temp water with no residuals theoretically.

    Just keep light out of your rez and it sounds like you should be set.

    Leave a comment:


  • Glaucksbacon
    replied
    Originally posted by BillFarthing View Post

    I hate to be blunt, but biofilm isn't useful for plants. You are filtering out the nutes and additives you paid for. You can't have both organics and oxidizers in the same solution. That's why Athena, Cultured Solutions and Cleangrow are straight salts with hypochlorous acid.
    Not blunt at all Bill, I'm not entitled to your expertise and experience and I appreciate anything you have to add. I'm doing a lot of this for the first time so I'm just happy to have someone to bounce thoughts off of. I agree that the biofilm needs to be avoided, the immediate particulate fallout in the rez after I added it made that very apparent. I was pretty surprised at how fast things went slimy and floaty.

    So you think I won't get away with using Jacks321 @ 90% + Mr fulvic and nothing else in the rez? No more hypochlorous acid? I'm definitely not married to it like I am Mr Fulvic. I'm running though 5 gallons a day it seems, so I'd (naively hope?) think that there wouldn't be much time for biofilm to develop, with twice a month cleanings. I'm trying to avoid spraying anything in flower so I'd really like to avoid foliar fulvic.

    Click image for larger version

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    There's the current rez setup, the gravity bit up top is the only part exposed to light, and it quickly runs back down when it gets to the higher drain there. I'm noticing a bit of sediment settling down in the top tub, which is easy to vacuum up as needed. That's the big reason I'd like a filter, maybe the bigger mesh wouldn't filter out nutrients so much? My thought is that if it's as soluble as it should be it shouldn't get caught. It looks to be bits of the crappy prefilter on the pond pump. Maybe I'll remove that and call it a day.

    I'm thinking of painting or taping up the top tub so that only a stripe is visible to confirm everything is functioning. I'll probably get a plastic ruler to gauge how many gallons I have in the bottom rez. When this room's lights are off and the tents are closed the gravity part of the res is in the dark, the vast majority of the day. If anyone sees any glaring problems I'd love to hear them!

    Thanks for reading my stream of consciousness drivel everyone!

    Leave a comment:


  • BillFarthing
    replied
    Originally posted by Glaucksbacon View Post

    I may run a filter and no rez cleaning type additive so I can keep running the fulvic in the rez
    I hate to be blunt, but biofilm isn't useful for plants. You are filtering out the nutes and additives you paid for. You can't have both organics and oxidizers in the same solution. That's why Athena, Cultured Solutions and Cleangrow are straight salts with hypochlorous acid.

    Leave a comment:


  • Glaucksbacon
    replied
    Originally posted by BillFarthing View Post
    If you are using strong oxidizers like hypochlorous acid or peroxide, use anything with organic matter (kelp, fulvic etc.) as a foliar for the same benefits.
    Yeah Bill, I see what you mean, I may run a filter and no rez cleaning type additive so I can keep running the fulvic in the rez, I'm trying to avoid adding foliar spraying to my list of things to do, as I'm asleep when my lights go off. Mr Fulvic @ 1ml/gal was the only change I made to make my end product the loudest it's ever been. But I also decided to use the big res I bought when I go on vacation only, keeping the turnover high when possible. Otherwise the blumats seem to be going fine so far.

    f-e, my plan was to stick a transparent style one right over the pump, still in the res as you say. which micron filter does the peanut gallery recommend? 40/100? My circulation pump in my floor res is constantly flooding/draining the blumats' gravity res, I love my res setup and I'll like it even more when it's better filtered.

    Oh another silly problem I've run into: how should I weigh my flood and drain return hose down? the thing keeps wanting to curve upwards and spray my res lid, leading to leaks. A brick? an old pump?

    Leave a comment:


  • BillFarthing
    replied
    If you are using strong oxidizers like hypochlorous acid or peroxide, use anything with organic matter (kelp, fulvic etc.) as a foliar for the same benefits.

    Leave a comment:


  • f-e
    replied
    Transparent may turn green. I keep mine within the res, so it's dark and any drips from opening it are contained. The filter on my circulator pump catches everything though, as it's on 24/7 not just a few minutes.

    I get black stuff floats about. Perhaps from the bio acids and h2o2 combination. Perhaps mould. It needs filtering. It would block my drippers.

    Leave a comment:


  • Glaucksbacon
    replied
    Originally posted by BillFarthing View Post
    Don't use hypochlorous acid or peroxide and Mr. Fulvic together. Just use Mr. Fulvic as a foliar at 0.5-1ml/gallon if oxidizers have to be part of your lineup. That pretty much goes for anything with organic matter in it.
    Yeah that was a silly mistake, not looking for interactions before using, live and learn.

    What kind of inline filtration does everyone use? Or is there a reason I shouldn't? I like the look of those ones with the clear/visible wall vs those Y types that are solid black.

    Leave a comment:


  • BillFarthing
    replied
    Don't use hypochlorous acid or peroxide and Mr. Fulvic together. Just use Mr. Fulvic as a foliar at 0.5-1ml/gallon if oxidizers have to be part of your lineup. That pretty much goes for anything with organic matter in it.

    Leave a comment:

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