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Cheap Nutrient Line for Commercial and Home Grows?

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  • maryjaneismyfre
    replied
    Also from my experience, most humates have at least a little fulvics as impurity, and most fulvics comtain some humates as impurity, both being extracted out of lignite which is brown coal. Humate is long chain heavy fraction and fulvates are smaller short chain molecules..The products I use are like that as I've been told by the manufacturer themselves who told me that most if not all are like that as they occur in same deposits. Humates tend to stick nutrients to the medium while fulvics tend to keep things in solution, chelating them, and make them highly available to the plants..In coir and rockwool hydro I use fulvics and in proper soil I use humates..In tanks that sit and recirculating systems humates will tend to grab your micros and others and stick them to the side of the tank. Just some info, use or don't. Also these are the results of what I experience, less than articulated scientific fact.
    Last edited by maryjaneismyfre; 12-21-2021, 11:27.

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  • maryjaneismyfre
    replied
    Originally posted by mexweed View Post
    I meant that when using mr fulvic the mammoth/tribus is even more pointless, I suppose if using a medium that mimics soil as far as water retention goes it could work, but that stuff needs to be in the medium/rootzone for a while before it starts to really work, if you're in coco and running water through it multiple times a day for example a lot of it will just rinse through before it has a chance to work its magic, and at least in the case of mammoth that targets P deposits I just don't see the point when mixing a salt profile that's 321 with some hammerhead sprinkled on top, the mr fulvic will aid the uptake just fine on its own

    those bacterial inoculants also smell awful, I could see a res ending up taking on some of the smell

    if you're going to use one of those products at least do a true side by side with a sample before you start growing buckets of stuff that smells like ass, I thought it worked in soil but I can't really say if it just got the plants going a bit better at the beginning of flower or if it truly made a difference in the end product, that was in organic soil though, with 321/hammerhead/mr fulvic I'm way less inclined to be convinced it makes a worthwhile difference
    In my experience, if the bacterial inputs smell awful then they were sitting on the shelf at your growshop for too long unrefridgerated and I'd throw them out..We go through large amounts and used to buy in 25L cans from the manufacturers direct, they never smell new, as we'd get to nearer to the bottom of the can it might start getting stinky, I'd then throw it out. I now order in multiple 5L cans and keep the unused unopened in the fridge and they don't get to the point of stinking..When I use a stinking bottle I tend to get later explosions of PM or botritus or pythium etc..after probably introducing some pathogenic microbe.

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  • f-e
    replied
    Originally posted by BillFarthing View Post
    The ratio on MKP is 50 ppm P, 63 ppm K.
    https://www.haifa-group.com/haifa-mk...sphate-0-52-34
    0-23-29


    Why don't you mix Humic and h202?
    I do this fairly often when establishing young plants, and it leads to a definite improvement. I always add the seaweed stuff too at about 10% as they have been shown mutually beneficial.

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  • mexweed
    replied
    I meant that when using mr fulvic the mammoth/tribus is even more pointless, I suppose if using a medium that mimics soil as far as water retention goes it could work, but that stuff needs to be in the medium/rootzone for a while before it starts to really work, if you're in coco and running water through it multiple times a day for example a lot of it will just rinse through before it has a chance to work its magic, and at least in the case of mammoth that targets P deposits I just don't see the point when mixing a salt profile that's 321 with some hammerhead sprinkled on top, the mr fulvic will aid the uptake just fine on its own

    those bacterial inoculants also smell awful, I could see a res ending up taking on some of the smell

    if you're going to use one of those products at least do a true side by side with a sample before you start growing buckets of stuff that smells like ass, I thought it worked in soil but I can't really say if it just got the plants going a bit better at the beginning of flower or if it truly made a difference in the end product, that was in organic soil though, with 321/hammerhead/mr fulvic I'm way less inclined to be convinced it makes a worthwhile difference
    Last edited by mexweed; 12-21-2021, 00:35.

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  • HorseBadoritiz
    replied
    Originally posted by BillFarthing View Post

    Lab Alley reagent grade is $120 for 2.5 kg. BulkSupplements.com is $21/kg. Plants only need food grade inputs.
    Bill, I enjoy your posts, thanks for keeping this up. Do you think the bulk supplements Ca is any better than this?
    https://www.mbferts.com/products/e-c...730a1afd&_ss=r

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  • BillFarthing
    replied
    Originally posted by Three Berries View Post
    BTW here is a good online chemical store. I like Calcium Acetate for my water soluble Ca.

    https://www.laballey.com/
    Lab Alley reagent grade is $120 for 2.5 kg. BulkSupplements.com is $21/kg. Plants only need food grade inputs.

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  • Three Berries
    replied
    BTW here is a good online chemical store. I like Calcium Acetate for my water soluble Ca.

    https://www.laballey.com/

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  • BillFarthing
    replied
    Originally posted by mexweed View Post
    personally I wouldn't waste time on that stuff when using salts/in hydro especially with mr fulvic, those products are designed to target nutrient deposits in soil and feed on them making them more available for uptake
    Fulvic is totally soluble and suitable for hydroponic application. You are thinking of humic acid, which is only soluble at an alkaline pH for soil. Just don't use strong oxidizers like hypochlorous acid or H2O2. Southern Ag Garden Friendly Fungicide is the super concentrated version of Hydroguard to replace those products. Fulvic is an excellent addition to hydro nutrients.

    PureCal is good Cal Nit, but is ONLY nitrates. You just have to make sure you add an NH4+ source like monoammonium phosphate to balance the pH when doing formulations.

    The ratio on MKP is 50 ppm P, 63 ppm K.

    Tribus is a bacterial innoculant. It is suitable for all fertilizer lineups as long as you don't use anything that sterilizes the root zone.

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  • maryjaneismyfre
    replied
    It is not...well spotted 100% correct.
    From their website (yara) :

    Total N Nitrate N Ammoniacal N Calcium CaO
    15.5% 14.4% 1.1% 26.3%
    Solubility (20 ̊C ) EC (1g/l at 20 ̊C) pH (1% solution) Colour
    1200g/l water 1.2mS/cm 6.0 white

    And from another of their websites..


    Nutrients
    • N 15.5%
      • NO314.4%
      • NH41.1%
    • Ca 18.8%
    From wikipedia, the basic reference:

    The fertilizer grade (15.5-0-0 + 19% Ca) is popular in the greenhouse and hydroponics trades; it contains ammonium nitrate and water, as the "double salt" 5Ca(NO3)2⋅NH4NO3⋅10H2O. This is called calcium ammonium nitrate."

    One could just work it all out with a periodic table and a little bit of chemistry knowledge. That's what we had to do before software did it for us, or made the mistakes on our behalf. We do sap sample tests and my N reading must be multiplied by a factor to work out sap N PPM from nitrate PPM reading. Same same..

    Calcium in yara is same as the rest as its the same stuff, calcium ammonia nitrate, made in Israel, South Africa or the States, no matter its the same stuff. If ammonia has been removed its different stuff, the purity can vary but most available are in the same range, calcium is 19% or 18.8% rather rounded up to 19... moral of the story. don't be mixing up your own nutes if you dont have a basic understanding of chemistry, unless you are sharp in that regard leave formulation up to the agronomists or chemically minded or trained, though that said I've seen experienced agronomists make the exact same mistake in formulating recipes for clients, and seen it more than once...Its a common mistake, compounded by some geographical regions by standard listing metal oxides percentages as the metals percentage, its not just calcium, one must be looking for it or else mistakes get compounded in calculations. LOL one complete F up in your crop due to calculation error would cause losses that would pay for years of nutes at shelf prices LOL, even at inflated prices of for example GH, i could grow way more the value of nutes in bottle, of weed at conservative prices or to put it another way if I spent $100 on bottled nutes I could grow $5000 worth of weed on an OK recipe and $10000 dollars of weed on a pukka recipe, so why am I worrying about saving $80-$90 and if I don't have enough basic knowledge to not make mistakes risking the entire crop and just learning to grow weed more efficiently would make the cost redundant. I have quite a few large licensed facilities running off 1000L tanks of my liquid nutrients that I sell them and why would they? They get a huge bulk discount sure but it costs them many times more than formulating themselves, why would they? The answer lies in them trying either to make their own before or running off a standard commercial recipe before and getting substandard results compared to what they get on my formulation, even if it costs many times more, it is justified by producing that much more crop for them that the extra outlay is irrelevant...even at inflated retail prices my cost of weed in nutes would be 1-1.5% and power would be 10-15%...And im not even too worried about saving power..I am more worried about how I can grow more top shelf and less mids in a shorter amount of time for the same power...or less power if it does not mean less light..but nute cost ....LOL whatever...increasing yield by 10-15% is ten times more money in your pocket than saving your entire nutes cost, for most growers it is easy to do a little bit of research and increase yield by that much, by the same stroke doing your entire cycle in 10-15% less time puts the same savings ten times your nutes cost in your pocket...Thank me later..

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  • f-e
    replied
    Originally posted by le_toy View Post
    I had ordered (megacrop) 1 part A and 1 part B, but part B is 10 times more expensive than Yara's CALCINIT, and it has more calcium
    Calnit Yara = 15.5N and 26.5Ca Calnit MegaCrop = 15.5N and 19 Ca
    26.5 CaO is 19 Ca
    Seems quite a coincidence.

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  • kingape
    replied
    Originally posted by mexweed View Post
    personally I wouldn't waste time on that stuff when using salts/in hydro especially with mr fulvic, those products are designed to target nutrient deposits in soil and feed on them making them more available for uptake
    Greengenes recommends it.

    bill what's your take on it?

    Leave a comment:


  • mexweed
    replied
    personally I wouldn't waste time on that stuff when using salts/in hydro especially with mr fulvic, those products are designed to target nutrient deposits in soil and feed on them making them more available for uptake

    Leave a comment:


  • kingape
    replied
    Originally posted by Glaucksbacon View Post

    I bet this process would work for tribus as well, or that new king crab by plant revolution for that matter

    http://opensalts.wikidot.com/propaga...moth-p-samples
    Not available in my location, so can't get the samples

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  • Glaucksbacon
    replied
    Originally posted by kingape View Post

    Also any recipes for Tribus?
    I bet this process would work for tribus as well, or that new king crab by plant revolution for that matter

    http://opensalts.wikidot.com/propaga...moth-p-samples

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  • kingape
    replied
    Originally posted by BillFarthing View Post
    Keep on plugging away! Your ratios look good.

    I usually start with the University of Florida tomato stage 3 recipe. Get your NO3-:NH4+ ratio 10:1 to control pH.

    Then I get calcium levels slightly higher than nitrates. You can dial back your magnesium nitrate (Magnesium 60-75) or substitute Cal Prime to achieve this.

    After these tweaks, it is just playing with weights to hit targets.

    Hi Bill!

    Just to make sure the PK Boost should add around 50ppm to P and 100ppm to K right?

    Also any recipes for Tribus?

    Leave a comment:

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