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Cheap Nutrient Line for Commercial and Home Grows?

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  • BillFarthing
    replied
    I realized some formulations must be a liquid. Growmore flowering cal-mag ingredients have to be combined in a very specific order and can't exist as a soluble. Mr. Fulvic is a liquid to preserve amino and organic acids. You can get around this by getting the greatest concentration liquid possible.



    Originally posted by CannaRed View Post
    What about powdered shilajit?

    Shilajit is a good source of fulvic acid. It does have a huge carbon (humate pun *snort*) footprint. My buddy was talking about Gilsonite- "American shilajit", which may also be an option.

    Leave a comment:


  • CannaRed
    replied
    Originally posted by Legalcdn View Post
    I hate shipping water also but there are not many options for home growers. Mr fulvic is liquid. Hard to to find soluable dry fulvic/humic. It peaks my interest to get some..
    What about powdered shilajit?

    Leave a comment:


  • Legalcdn
    replied
    Originally posted by BillFarthing View Post
    I've talked to that company, very knowledgeable, but they only do wholesale.



    The thing about Ful-Power is that you are paying to ship water. Seems pretty wasteful to me.
    I hate shipping water also but there are not many options for home growers. Mr fulvic is liquid. Hard to to find soluable dry fulvic/humic. It peaks my interest to get some..

    Leave a comment:


  • BillFarthing
    replied
    Originally posted by CannaRed View Post
    Here's why I ask-
    I posted this in Why Purple thread (excuse the spelling of the warning.):

    Anthocyanins and senescence can be induced by cold night temps or properly flushing calcium by the end of flower.



    That's the first time I've heard molybdenum for that purpose. I still learn something new every day.

    Leave a comment:


  • CannaRed
    replied
    Here's why I ask-
    I posted this in Why Purple thread (excuse the spelling of the warning.):
    just heard PotentPonic Steve say that you can raise molybdenum up to .1ppm even all the way to 1ppm and this will turn purple plants purple with no other Ill effects from toxicity. This only works with plants that have the genetic capability to turn purple of course.
    I wouldn't go over 1ppm. There's a warning on the label of RapidStart that's says "excessive levels of molybdenum can be hazardous to rudimentary animals" and alot of folk are eating cannabis nowadays.
    Here's the link to the podcast where he mentions it. He speaks of molybdenum at 00:51:43
    https://anchor.fm/cheaphomegrow/epis...e-Panel-ehl0jh

    Leave a comment:


  • BillFarthing
    replied
    Originally posted by CannaRed View Post
    Hey bill,
    What about molybdenum?
    Ive seen it in RapidStart, but that's about it.
    I don't need alot. Like .1-.3ppm

    That seems like a lot! I can tell you a bunch about Fe, but micros like Mo and ratios involved aren't something that I know a lot about. It can be toxic to ruminants. It only is used at 0.8% (0.008) in most formulations. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

    Leave a comment:


  • CannaRed
    replied
    Hey bill,
    What about molybdenum?
    Ive seen it in RapidStart, but that's about it.
    I don't need alot. Like .1-.3ppm

    Leave a comment:


  • BillFarthing
    replied
    Originally posted by Biologist View Post
    I was interested in the Ful-Power as well since it is cheaper (about half the price) than the AGT-50 but if you actually do the math it comes out as way more expensive since you have to use so much more of it.

    AGT-50 is 1 mL per gallon and Ful-Power is recommended at 30 mL per gallon.

    I've talked to that company, very knowledgeable, but they only do wholesale.



    The thing about Ful-Power is that you are paying to ship water. Seems pretty wasteful to me.

    Leave a comment:


  • Biologist
    replied
    I was interested in the Ful-Power as well since it is cheaper (about half the price) than the AGT-50 but if you actually do the math it comes out as way more expensive since you have to use so much more of it.

    AGT-50 is 1 mL per gallon and Ful-Power is recommended at 30 mL per gallon.

    Leave a comment:


  • Legalcdn
    replied
    Now that is a great reply. Its strange, i was looking at the AGBIO ful-power before i read this. I guess their TM-7 is measured the same way (V&B).

    Thanks for taking the time to share.

    Life is learning.

    Leave a comment:


  • BillFarthing
    replied
    Originally posted by Legalcdn View Post
    Bill, thanks for sharing your wisdom. The last time we wrote, i worked the megacrop and lowered the P and achieved my best grow.. thanks. Indoor i managed 14oz with 2 plants. I shifted to jacks with the 3-2-1 formula. I found the current crop is seeing MG defiencies but i corrected with foliar.

    If i choose something else besides mr. Fulvic, what should i be focusing on with similar products?

    Megacrop (5-12-26) went to a 2 part almost exactly jacks.

    Most cannabis growers use way too much P, which has to be flushed out to prevent flowers from tasting harsh and burning black. At the end of the day, the plant takes the nutrients it needs. You can't force feed a plant.

    ------------------------------
    I'm sure you didn't expect your question to be a very involved answer concerning fulvic acid. It's a very complicated substance. It's millions of years of organic compounds broken down and concentrated and is very hard to quantify.

    Fulvic acid is short-chain organic acids. It is light in color, orange or gold and soluble at all pH levels. It is immediately bioavailable for use in hydroponics, soil and foliar usage. Humic acid is long-chain organic acids. It is darker and only soluble at an alkaline pH. It contains carbon, isn't immediately bioavailable and is only suitable for long-term soil building.

    Most fulvic acid listed on fertilizer labels use outdated V&B (Verpleugh and Branifold) testing. This percentage includes the inactive ash content. California and Oregon use even older and inaccurate CDFA testing. CDFA discards the fulvic acid content and only lists the humic content. ISO and LAMAR fulvic acid testing is slightly more up to date and accurate, but the same batch can vary by 10% in test results.

    Let's take a couple commercial products as examples. BioAG Ful-Power is 8% V&B, but only 0.15% ISO/LAMAR of actual fulvic acid. Ferti-Organic Fert-Fulvic Plus is 90% V&B, but only 14% ISO/LAMAR fulvic acid. The percentage listed on the label is not what is in the bottle or bag.

    Leonardite is a very poor source of fulvic acid. It is a byproduct of the coal and gas industry. It is harvested by strip and blast mining and is very bad for the environment. It is extracted by harsh hydroxide chemical extraction. The extra potassium from the the extraction process can lock out calcium in plants. Shale fulvic acid can be water extracted and is much more environmentally responsible.

    Because it is millions of years of organic matter being broken down, some sources of fulvic contain amino and organic acids that are beneficial for plants.

    TL;DR: The best sources of fulvic acid are:

    1. Tested with ISO/LAMAR, not V&B or CDFA
    2. Shale, not Leonardite based
    3. Water, not hydroxide or chemically extracted
    4. Contain fulvic (not primarily humic), amino and organic acids

    Leave a comment:


  • Legalcdn
    replied
    Bill, thanks for sharing your wisdom. The last time we wrote, i worked the megacrop and lowered the P and achieved my best grow.. thanks. Indoor i managed 14oz with 2 plants. I shifted to jacks with the 3-2-1 formula. I found the current crop is seeing MG defiencies but i corrected with foliar.

    If i choose something else besides mr. Fulvic, what should i be focusing on with similar products?

    Megacrop (5-12-26) went to a 2 part almost exactly jacks.

    Leave a comment:


  • Flippr
    replied
    Thanks Bill, great info!

    Leave a comment:


  • BillFarthing
    replied
    Originally posted by eyesdownchronic View Post
    are there any iron chelate products that you would reccomend?

    PlantProd micronutrients and Mr. Fulvic both have chelated iron. I think the latter has 6 types of chelated iron.

    Leave a comment:


  • eyesdownchronic
    replied
    are there any iron chelate products that you would reccomend?
    Last edited by eyesdownchronic; 10-28-2020, 06:38.

    Leave a comment:

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