Cheap Nutrient Line for Commercial and Home Grows?

[eyesdownchronic]

Do you keep detailed logs? I've been slowly building toward it, but I'm really terrible at it! I've just created spreadsheets the I update with my numbers for every phase. When I mix my concentrates, I test them for ppm per ml(I mix 300G of each part to exactly 1G of water) then the formula tells me the ml I need to achieve whatever ppm I need. I figure this is the first step in tracking all the changes we do!

The sulfuric I use is just battery acid from the auto parts mixed with water. If you do, just make sure to add the acid to the water, not the other way around. Very important distinction. As far as PPE, I have a 3M respirator, safety glasses and rubber gloves that go to my elbows. To be honest though, I only have to use that for IPM, as I use Forbid & Floramite every 60 days in veg(I'm perpetual). The acid is as safe as anything else we use in the gardens.

Oh great! You had to go and throw that monkeywrench in there! Lol! Although, I've heard that most of your fussy eaters are just in need of either Ca or Mg, which should be easy to amend.

I'm kinda baffled by my root zone pH. No matter what pH I put in, it comes out around 7. No matter the room, the age or the phase. Very odd. And yes, almost non-existent cec. Now that my rainwater is properly filtered and UV'd I might experiment with other methods, who knows.

If I ever decide on coco, I'll let you know so you can work me through the growing pains!

Great to talk to you, as well. It's what makes this community great!

Sadly, no, I do not keep logs like i should.
but i think after reading this im gonna have to go buy a couple new notebooks...
I like how you mix up your stock solutions, i kinda do it the opposite way, by setting my ml/gal and then weigh out differing levels of fert. salts.
Damn, I need to start tracking what I do, hahah.

Lol, yeah ive seen people do that before. kinda freaked me out the first time i saw it lol. is the battery acid a high enough purity or whatever to be using for consumbles? and yeah, definetly good note on add the acid to the water. I was thinking id need the big rubber gloves, long sleeves, and a face shield; respirator is a good call too. For IPM i dont really nuke stuff. hardest ive ever went was some pyretherin once.

Very weird about the root zone pH. only thing i can think of is when using a high nitrate N feed, the pH will go up over time because when NO3- gets taken up, plants release OH- into root zone to maintain electrical balance. Opposite goes for using NH4+ feed. dont see why it would always come out at 7 though.

and I always enjoy the dialogue and exchange of ideas.
Merry Christmas to all.

 

[ButterflyEffect]

Sadly, no, I do not keep logs like i should.
but i think after reading this im gonna have to go buy a couple new notebooks...
I like how you mix up your stock solutions, i kinda do it the opposite way, by setting my ml/gal and then weigh out differing levels of fert. salts.
Damn, I need to start tracking what I do, hahah.

Lol, yeah ive seen people do that before. kinda freaked me out the first time i saw it lol. is the battery acid a high enough purity or whatever to be using for consumbles? and yeah, definetly good note on add the acid to the water. I was thinking id need the big rubber gloves, long sleeves, and a face shield; respirator is a good call too. For IPM i dont really nuke stuff. hardest ive ever went was some pyretherin once.

Very weird about the root zone pH. only thing i can think of is when using a high nitrate N feed, the pH will go up over time because when NO3- gets taken up, plants release OH- into root zone to maintain electrical balance. Opposite goes for using NH4+ feed. dont see why it would always come out at 7 though.

and I always enjoy the dialogue and exchange of ideas.
Merry Christmas to all.

I picked up the concentrate idea from someone here and put my own spin on it. I always have 2 sets of gallons. The one I'm using and the next set. This way there's never a doubt as to solubility.

From what I understand the acid is pure, but again, just my understanding. I'm no chemist, believe me!. Works well and I just keep some in a cup on a shelf in my prep area with a small syringe in it. Easy peasy.

Still trying to grasp the root zone thing since for all I know it is causing issues. Still weird that when I put in solution at 3.2 it still comes out at 7!

Merry Christmas to you and your as well. This is indeed a great exchange! To that end, here are some screenshots of the docs I use

This is the main doc that I go by. I put in the ppm per ml for Parts A & B all the way to the right and it populates how many mls I need based on the ppm above it...

This is the ingredient doc that breaks down and drives the main sheet. If I change a menu here, it'll populate the main one...

This one is my room doc. I just fill in the dates and any other pertinent details and it gets posted on each rooms door. One column for 60ish day strains and one for 70ish ones...

 

[Guest]

@ButterflyEffect


I'm using the Biomin calcium with Masterblend tomato. I am in drain to waste coco and have noticed the PH upward drift as well. What amount of Biomin Ca are you adding per gallon? I'm starting with 1ml and waiting for a response.

 

[ButterflyEffect]

@ButterflyEffect


I'm using the Biomin calcium with Masterblend tomato. I am in drain to waste coco and have noticed the PH upward drift as well. What amount of Biomin Ca are you adding per gallon? I'm starting with 1ml and waiting for a response.

I'm using about 2ml/G. Works out to be about 60ppm(10N, 50Ca)

And yes, it drives the pH through the roof if it sits for any period of time. I mix 5G buckets and hand feed a veg room and 3 flower rooms, so at times I have a bucket that doesn't get completely used, typically the veg bucket. I started to notice it when it looked like the surface was bubbling. On a whim, I checked the pH and much to my surpise, it went from 5.8 to almot 8 in a matter of hours.

I also noticed that the runoff of my entire grow is around 7 no matter what the input is. I don't understand enough to know why that is, but I was using Biomin on all of them and have been for months now. I'll be sure to watch things in the root zone closely now that I've switched to gypsum and Growmore foliars for Ca supplementation.

Hope this helps.

 

[eyesdownchronic]

I picked up the concentrate idea from someone here and put my own spin on it. I always have 2 sets of gallons. The one I'm using and the next set. This way there's never a doubt as to solubility.

From what I understand the acid is pure, but again, just my understanding. I'm no chemist, believe me!. Works well and I just keep some in a cup on a shelf in my prep area with a small syringe in it. Easy peasy.

Still trying to grasp the root zone thing since for all I know it is causing issues. Still weird that when I put in solution at 3.2 it still comes out at 7!

Merry Christmas to you and your as well. This is indeed a great exchange! To that end, here are some screenshots of the docs I use

This is the main doc that I go by. I put in the ppm per ml for Parts A & B all the way to the right and it populates how many mls I need based on the ppm above it...
View Image

This is the ingredient doc that breaks down and drives the main sheet. If I change a menu here, it'll populate the main one...
View Image

This one is my room doc. I just fill in the dates and any other pertinent details and it gets posted on each rooms door. One column for 60ish day strains and one for 70ish ones...
View Image

Wow! that is so much cleaner than what I have. Just a bunch of scribbles on some notebook paper. Thanks for giving me inspiration! Do you get that spreadsheet through hydrobuddy or is it of your own making. very nice and streamlined.

This actually spurred me to go through and check my ppms for different stages, to see about where im at. and i think im gonna have to make some changes... I know i said i wouldnt.

reason why is that in flower the amended JAcks feed has lower N which made me up the cal-nit levels, and I didnt quite realize how high it pushed my Ca levels. even without any added gypsum, the Ca levels were a bit above N. with the full gypsum they far outstripped K. so, i actually dialed the gypsum down.

still very pleased with how everything is doing, just small tweaks, ya know.

 

[ButterflyEffect]

Wow! that is so much cleaner than what I have. Just a bunch of scribbles on some notebook paper. Thanks for giving me inspiration! Do you get that spreadsheet through hydrobuddy or is it of your own making. very nice and streamlined.

This actually spurred me to go through and check my ppms for different stages, to see about where im at. and i think im gonna have to make some changes... I know i said i wouldnt.

reason why is that in flower the amended JAcks feed has lower N which made me up the cal-nit levels, and I didnt quite realize how high it pushed my Ca levels. even without any added gypsum, the Ca levels were a bit above N. with the full gypsum they far outstripped K. so, i actually dialed the gypsum down.

still very pleased with how everything is doing, just small tweaks, ya know.

Thanks for the kind words. It's been a work in progress. Make no mistake, I started with some of the most awful record keeping. I went to a bunch of whiteboards(several of which I still use such as my 3'x5' calendar) and now spreadsheets.

I did wind up creating all of this while also using Hydrobuddy. It was more born from not being able to get the numbers out of the app because I use custom premixed concentrates and I still don't know how to tell HB how to read that(Mostly since it changes slightly every mix). Now I understand what I'm reading, which was very important to me.

How high was your Ca? I, too, just learned that too much blocks K.

I'm glad things are falling into place for you. I'm starting to get the same feeling here, as well. Long time coming!

 

[eyesdownchronic]

NPK of (71-34-93) Ca at 116 haha. yeaahh.
we're gonna drop that a bit...

 

[ButterflyEffect]

NPK of (71-34-93) Ca at 116 haha. yeaahh.
we're gonna drop that a bit...

Yeah maybe so!

 

[Glaucksbacon]

Hey Bill, I'm reading this DIY Hammerhead recipe being superior to straight MKP and was curious about it: can I mix it up and use it dry or would I have to add the mix to water to ensure the ratio? If I don'thave to, it'd still be .5-1g/gal, yes? And if I do, the opensalts recipe is for a liter, dosed 5-10ml/gal? basically I wish there was a better step by step out there...thanks bud.

 

[BillFarthing]

Mix homemade hammerhead up dry. Use it at 1g/gallon. The base does all the heavy lifting. This is just to give flowers the best health and a little nudge. Thanks for the feedback.

 

[painter66]

hi bill. great thread.
so I see many people use silica for various reasons but no mention of silica here, so I take it in your opinion no silica is really needed, at least not with this method and choice of nutrients.
great thread.

 

[BillFarthing]

hi bill. great thread.
so I see many people use silica for various reasons but no mention of silica here, so I take it in your opinion no silica is really needed, at least not with this method and choice of nutrients.
great thread.

The complication is that silica is incompatible with fulvic. It creates precipitates when mixed. It doesn't usually happen when diluted at regular concentrations unless it sits without agitation for a few days. It definitely happens when used as a concentrate like with Dosatrons.



I typically have rice hulls in my coco growing medium, so this thread focuses just on nutes. Definitely use some silica, it's good stuff.

 

[Glaucksbacon]

Interesting, and exactly what I hoped was the case. TY Bill

 

[ButterflyEffect]

My understanding is that silica is not very effective as a foliar. I thought I read that OO had said that here, but I can't recall. I still do a foliar of agsil weekly and up to day 14 in flower, but I do wish I could use it more. I wasn't aware of the incompatibility with the fulvic. My main issue is with the pH spike.

At this point, I'm not giving up the mr fulvic and I'm already working the liquid smoke in the routine. Can't wait to see the results at harvest, but the ability to bring the EC down has been fantastic.

Thanks again man!

 

[Wolverine97]

Great thread, Bill. I'm an organic guy, but still like to digest this stuff for the knowledge base. I appreciate the efforts. I don't post much here (in the past anyhow), but have been at it since '97.

 

[Lyfespan]

My understanding is that silica is not very effective as a foliar. I thought I read that OO had said that here, but I can't recall. I still do a foliar of agsil weekly and up to day 14 in flower, but I do wish I could use it more. I wasn't aware of the incompatibility with the fulvic. My main issue is with the pH spike.

At this point, I'm not giving up the mr fulvic and I'm already working the liquid smoke in the routine. Can't wait to see the results at harvest, but the ability to bring the EC down has been fantastic.

Thanks again man!

silica is used foliarly for PM prevention in grapes

 

[BillFarthing]

silica is used foliarly for PM prevention in grapes

In nature, a lot of these biostimulants like silica and fulvic acid (as part of humus) are active at only a couple ppm's. Nature is lit.

Getting your brix over 12% and the addition of silica can decimate an active PM infection, even if your environment is out of whack.

 

[Lyfespan]

In nature, a lot of these biostimulants like silica and fulvic acid (as part of humus) are active at only a couple ppm's. Nature is lit.

Getting your brix over 12% and the addition of silica can decimate an active PM infection, even if your environment is out of whack.

when i see spots of pm in late, it always tells me someone is locked or not getting enough K. its always a few weeks before chop as brix is climbing, the ones lacking always raise their hands lol

 

[ButterflyEffect]

silica is used foliarly for PM prevention in grapes

I use it weekly and up to the end of stretch. I just thought I had read that Si doesn't penetrate well via a foliar. Either way, it's good to use and have on hand.

 

[Lyfespan]

I use it weekly and up to the end of stretch. I just thought I had read that Si doesn't penetrate well via a foliar. Either way, it's good to use and have on hand.

wonder if its more of a surfactant type thing, than an uptaking