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    #16
    Just perhaps, having all that light, without the IR content, is driving feed requirements that are not being met through transpiration.

    A hydro plant in a greenhouse see's many levels of illumination during the day, but often just one EC, or perhaps a day and night EC, where the night time feed is stronger. In the day, when the sun is strong, so is the IR content, opening the stomata. When the light is weak, so is the IR content, slowing transpiration. I'm no biologist, but plants have evolved with whatever is at the root, being what they have regardless of light levels. Perhaps there is a response to IR light, beyond just the temperature. A regulatory mechanism that LED's don't influence.


    Warming up the room seems to be a common theme to make leds work. I have found a couple more degree's a good thing, and the high temperatures of summer caused no issue. Heading into Autumn I'm actually planning extra measures against the cold. One chap actually extracts from the floor now, bringing in air up top. In an effort to bring down heat from the lights. I mean.. wtf

    If you join the dots, a picture can be made where IR is the main culprit. Or, a picture of a penis. It depends what you want to see at this point.

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      #17
      My plant is growing in an EC of 1.7 or 1200ppm in early growth under 2 batten fix LED lights (20W each) I bought from Stratco and is not showing any signs of nute burn, it is loving it.
      My Grow Setup 2;
      https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=370402



      Originally posted by MOneYMiKe
      But my freedom doesn’t end where your fears begin
      Originally posted by Gypsy Nirvana
      - Can't we all just get a bong?
      Originally posted by flylowgethigh
      ....

      Ya'll free to do what you want, except force your fears onto me.

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by exploziv View Post
        Yes, leds helped me dial in my organic soil recipe and add-ons much better. Once you figure it out it's smooth.

        I'm still working on getting mine dialed in. A soil test should help immensely. My biggest challenge will be trying to determine what to use for long release amendments for heavy feeders. This last grow in my new tent kind of kicked my ass with one set of clones. The clones to either side of those looked fantastic in comparison. (They just came down last night)

        Despite my issues mid flower, I got some of the best flower I've grown yet under LED. And my next round should be even better.


        Originally posted by f-e View Post

        If you join the dots, a picture can be made where IR is the main culprit. Or, a picture of a penis. It depends what you want to see at this point.
        current catch all grow thread

        SSSDH x GROM/Digiberry from Stank Bros.

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          #19
          I grow in coir, drain to waste. When I switched both veg and flower to LED, temps in the rooms dropped and the plants started taking less total volume. I've always assumed the differences were caused by slower transpiration, not a change in spectrum. Could be both, I guess but increasing EC slightly at the same proportions I used with MH solved any issues I had.

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            #20
            Originally posted by GOT_BUD? View Post
            My biggest challenge will be trying to determine what to use for long release amendments for heavy feeders.
            Same here... I was thinking more Feather meal for N and Rock Phosphate for P and keep feeding kelp extract and fish Hyd like a mofo..

            Got a product for free where I bought the Led , its called Led Protekt and has bio available minerals with Salcydic Acid..thers lots of magnesium and manganese , potassium and some silicates....plants love it...same response of when I give em aspirin!!
            sigpic
            Every piece of information or picture posted has nothing to do with reality

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              #21
              Yeah a couple degrees means a night and day difference when I walk into my room... my dehumidifier can barely keep up at good temps, but when it is 24C I "almost don't need it". (exaggeration of course)

              In some recent research, benefits from infrared addition are being found

              I have posted this presentation with timestamps which will interest the readers here: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=361167
              3 out of 3 germinated!!! Fantastic strain! 5 Stars.

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                #22
                I noticed the same. I assumed the temperature drop was responsible.I feed every other day now when with HPS,I fed every day.
                I also watch my runoff,if it exceeds 1500ppm I do water after a skip day and then back to feed.

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by SuperBadGrower View Post
                  Sure, I think you can make some generalizations about the phosphor coated leds (white leds). they all have a pretty similar spectrum.
                  There's actually a significant difference, depending on the configuration and choices of LEDs being used. 70CRI and 90CRI are different, the lenses used and Kelvin ratings they produce are very different (yes, I'm aware of LED construction).

                  Plants convert light, and the type of light drives their needs. So, while I wouldn't say you can make a generalization for all LEDs, I would imagine the 'preferred' LED spectrum for cannabis quality/yield compromise is close to a slightly redder MH. The spectrum Fluence posts would be a general example.

                  Very interesting responses in here.
                  Tending Your Reservoir for a Full pH Swing and Cleaner Cannabis (A Healthier Approach to Hydroponic Cannabis)
                  DIY STS Mixing/Using Guide for Feminized Pollen/Seeds
                  DIY Super Inexpensive HEPA Filtration
                  6-Second Pain Relief for Arthritic and Joint Pain
                  8-Minute CBD Test
                  Cool and Dry Flowering Discussion Thread

                  Comment


                    #24
                    After all those of years of growing under HIDs, I, too, felt like a noob again after switching to LED. There's a learning curve there for those of us who pre-date LED grow lights. It's about unlearning. And the main thing to unlearn, which has already been touched on, is keeping the light right on top of the canopy. I mean, this is only my experience, so I'm not claiming this is necessarily science or anything, but it took me several years, several different growing methods and a bunch of trial and error to start feeling advanced again, lol. After all this time, now, I feel like I figured out the main trick: keep LEDs much further away from the canopy than you did with HIDs!

                    Once I figured that out, everything fell into place, and I no longer felt like my plants were growing slower than they did under HPS, no longer felt like I had to use a different concentration or ratio of nutrient, etc.


                    hush's hidey hole

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                      #25
                      On my second LED grow and im also running into issues, the learning curve is real. Some good info in here

                      Comment


                        #27
                        Originally posted by hush View Post
                        After all those of years of growing under HIDs, I, too, felt like a noob again after switching to LED. There's a learning curve there for those of us who pre-date LED grow lights. It's about unlearning. And the main thing to unlearn, which has already been touched on, is keeping the light right on top of the canopy. I mean, this is only my experience, so I'm not claiming this is necessarily science or anything, but it took me several years, several different growing methods and a bunch of trial and error to start feeling advanced again, lol. After all this time, now, I feel like I figured out the main trick: keep LEDs much further away from the canopy than you did with HIDs!

                        Once I figured that out, everything fell into place, and I no longer felt like my plants were growing slower than they did under HPS, no longer felt like I had to use a different concentration or ratio of nutrient, etc.
                        While I don't disagree with you, it all depends on the led diodes themselves, the lens agle and power. Less power diodes need to be kept closer than hids, while big units powered by cobs or having narrow angle lenses need to be kept at a greater distance.
                        Also, I'd say keeping leds too close won't result in more defficiencies, plants will just progress slower or get bleached tops (if leds are really powerful and kept really close, so what others said remain valid as well.
                        But I totally agree that once you hit the sweetspot you can be happy with the results.
                        "We ought never do wrong when people are looking." - Mark Twain

                        Comment


                          #28
                          I'm starting to think I may need a P boost. Making that three people boosting N & P. Could I see that as a reduction in K instead? Which is what's happening to the feed profile, by raising the N & P. If so, then why. What is K, and why need less. K is used in stem growth. Our led's don't really promote stem growth, due to the lower shade response from having little far red. This could be starting to explain how led's demand a different feed profile. Less K due to less stem growth. More Ca and Mg is hard to explain, because they are often lacking anyway. But if it was Ca deficiency driving this, it's likely temperature based. As somebody posted on the last page.

                          It's weak I know, but it could be something.

                          edit: I forgot.. K is also involved with transpiration. The first sign of deficiency being burnt serrations. Which led's are less likely to promote
                          Last edited by f-e; 09-30-2019, 10:30.

                          Comment


                            #29
                            Thanks for this thread. And to all who’ve contributed. I will be following along with great interest.

                            I too am now a newb because I switched to LED. After many years of growing under HID I settled into a method of pampering my plants when seedlings and while vegging. And then more or less put them on autopilot during flower - mostly only checking for watering needs. This last year I did back-to-back grows under an HLG 550 V2 and neither was what I would consider successful with the second of the two more of a disaster than the first. Each set of plants vegged beautifully under the light, but around week 3-4 of flower, things started going downhill fast. I found my old method no longer applies and as I get ready to fire the panel back up in a month or so, I am going to need to make adjustments. I also have a COB panel with a 420w actual draw. I did much better with this light and found, as was recommended to me, one key seemed to be running high temps (84 - 87) and high humidity. I wasn't as vigilant reaching those numbers under the HLG, but plan on it this time.

                            I am not so sure I agree that LED allows for deficiencies that weren’t seen under HID to show themselves. I say this because I regularly used to remove plants from the flower room to look over, pollinate, rotate, etc. I didn’t have problems like now, even when viewing under normal household lighting.

                            I need to somehow figure out how much cal and mag I need to amend my soil mix with. Guess I’ll use gypsum for cal, not sure what for mag yet. Think a soil test is in order. Hopefully turnaround time on them is fast.

                            §467. I am sitting with a philosopher in the garden; he says again and again “I know that that’s a tree”, pointing to a tree that is near us. Someone else arrives and hears this, and I tell him: “This fellow isn’t insane. We are only doing philosophy.”

                            — Ludwig Wittgenstein, On Certainty

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                              #30
                              Originally posted by Shmavis View Post
                              Thanks for this thread. And to all who’ve contributed. I will be following along with great interest.

                              I too am now a newb because I switched to LED. After many years of growing under HID I settled into a method of pampering my plants when seedlings and while vegging. And then more or less put them on autopilot during flower - mostly only checking for watering needs. This last year I did back-to-back grows under an HLG 550 V2 and neither was what I would consider successful with the second of the two more of a disaster than the first. Each set of plants vegged beautifully under the light, but around week 3-4 of flower, things started going downhill fast. I found my old method no longer applies and as I get ready to fire the panel back up in a month or so, I am going to need to make adjustments. I also have a COB panel with a 420w actual draw. I did much better with this light and found, as was recommended to me, one key seemed to be running high temps (84 - 87) and high humidity. I wasn't as vigilant reaching those numbers under the HLG, but plan on it this time.

                              I am not so sure I agree that LED allows for deficiencies that weren’t seen under HID to show themselves. I say this because I regularly used to remove plants from the flower room to look over, pollinate, rotate, etc. I didn’t have problems like now, even when viewing under normal household lighting.

                              I need to somehow figure out how much cal and mag I need to amend my soil mix with. Guess I’ll use gypsum for cal, not sure what for mag yet. Think a soil test is in order. Hopefully turnaround time on them is fast.

                              Dolomite lime has both calcium and Magnesium.

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