Producing s2 seeds from a s1 landrace???
- Thread starter peps1
- Start date
As far as the 'genetic math' goes, since what most of you guys call an S1, most botanists call an f2... Making 'S2s' you are actually making f3s... If the 'S1' was accidental from a hermie, then that trait will continue to be passed into the progeny...
Other that that rgd is fairly correct in that the only real way to know the outcome of a breeding project is to do said project... best of luck.
Other that that rgd is fairly correct in that the only real way to know the outcome of a breeding project is to do said project... best of luck.
peps1
Member
thank you both for your comments, I will start the experiment and post updates in the forum.
Think botanists only use Filial F1,2,3 etc for distinctly different parental types, f1 having double the potential phenotypes as S1 due to the cross..... not sure if that's semantics or has relevance to volume of phenotypes in S1's?
regards the seeds being a S1/F2fem due to hermie, the plant was chemically reversed rather then it being a genetic trite to pass on.
Think botanists only use Filial F1,2,3 etc for distinctly different parental types, f1 having double the potential phenotypes as S1 due to the cross..... not sure if that's semantics or has relevance to volume of phenotypes in S1's?
regards the seeds being a S1/F2fem due to hermie, the plant was chemically reversed rather then it being a genetic trite to pass on.
No need for me to get into a designation argument... I'm well versed in proper botanical nomenclature...
If the plant which was selfed was heterozygous, then the fx designations will apply, as will the genetic math relating to incrossing sibling hybrid progeny...
If it was an inbred line... then the progeny you are calling 's2' will be not much different from any other sibling inbreeding from that line...
As far as an F1 having double the possibly phenotypes as an S1... That's simply wrong...
Breed two differing homozygous plants to produce an F1 hybrid, and the progeny will all be very uniform.
Breed one of those heterozygous progeny to itself (or a sibling, it makes no difference), and you will get several different genotypes as a result... roughly 25% like each grandparent and 50% like the plant you selfed...
So depending on which S1(F2) you select, the resulting S2(F3) generation could produce mostly plants resembling either grandparent or give you another 25/25/50 split...
As well as the fact that for each of the 3 (or 4 or 5 or more, depending on the hybrid) major genotypes is going to have phenotypical variation within a certain range...
The number of phenotypes in an S1 or S2 or F2 or F3 depends on the heterozygous-ness of the parent(s) selected....
In short... selfing is no more a guarantee of uniform offspring than back crossing is... They are both useful tools in refining a gene pool, but no "panacea of uniformity"... They can be used as steps toward increasing trait frequency, but that is about the extent of their usefulness...
Upon re-reading your original statement... It was a homozygous land-race which was selfed... The progeny and their progeny will be no different from most representatives of said land-race who's parentage was selected for desirable traits... Breeding within a land-race gene-pool and selecting superior plants will increase the frequency of the traits you selected for... But, selfing a plant will never produce 'carbon copies' of said plant...
If the plant which was selfed was heterozygous, then the fx designations will apply, as will the genetic math relating to incrossing sibling hybrid progeny...
If it was an inbred line... then the progeny you are calling 's2' will be not much different from any other sibling inbreeding from that line...
As far as an F1 having double the possibly phenotypes as an S1... That's simply wrong...
Breed two differing homozygous plants to produce an F1 hybrid, and the progeny will all be very uniform.
Breed one of those heterozygous progeny to itself (or a sibling, it makes no difference), and you will get several different genotypes as a result... roughly 25% like each grandparent and 50% like the plant you selfed...
So depending on which S1(F2) you select, the resulting S2(F3) generation could produce mostly plants resembling either grandparent or give you another 25/25/50 split...
As well as the fact that for each of the 3 (or 4 or 5 or more, depending on the hybrid) major genotypes is going to have phenotypical variation within a certain range...
The number of phenotypes in an S1 or S2 or F2 or F3 depends on the heterozygous-ness of the parent(s) selected....
In short... selfing is no more a guarantee of uniform offspring than back crossing is... They are both useful tools in refining a gene pool, but no "panacea of uniformity"... They can be used as steps toward increasing trait frequency, but that is about the extent of their usefulness...
Upon re-reading your original statement... It was a homozygous land-race which was selfed... The progeny and their progeny will be no different from most representatives of said land-race who's parentage was selected for desirable traits... Breeding within a land-race gene-pool and selecting superior plants will increase the frequency of the traits you selected for... But, selfing a plant will never produce 'carbon copies' of said plant...
peps1
Member
Grat3fulh3ad said:
Easy there mate, its not like I was taking your mother from behind while poring sugar in your gas tank!
Was just telling you what I “thought” sincerely happy you took the time to correct me and include so much relevant information (have even printed out your post)
Thank you for re-reading.Grat3fulh3ad said:
Peps1,if this selfed plant pollinated herself,there is strong chances that the results will be similar or a bit stronger than the plant itself ,to keep it simple.
if you used her pollen to pollinated a sister plant you will have maybe more phenotypes depending how uniform they were and if you use her pollen on another strain you will have more genotypes and phenotypes.
if you used her pollen to pollinated a sister plant you will have maybe more phenotypes depending how uniform they were and if you use her pollen on another strain you will have more genotypes and phenotypes.
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