- Opiated Thai Sticks: Myth or Truth? -

[Cvh]

Hi all,

As the title says, I want to know if the stories about opiated Thai Sticks are true or not.

Please share the info you have.

Cheers.

[mr.brunch]

[Cvh]

The potential myth:

The finished Thai Sticks were dipped into a byproduct from the opium/heroin production called 'early water'.

From
DJ Short article

Opium Soaked Herb

An element was added to certain shipments of Thai herb in the 70's: "early water."
A by-product of the heroin trade, early water was the leftover water used to create the heroin from the raw opium.
It contained all of the constituents of opium except most of the heroin.

The curing Thai herb was soaked in the water and redried to absorb the opiate alkaloids. The result was a high that was sought out by some, but more than most bargained for. A good wash was an enjoyable thing, but some were over-laced, which caused a dilemma for those who would start spinning after a few hits on a joint.


https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=136452

[Cvh]

Some counter arguments stating it being a myth from ICMag members personal experience:

As im convinced most thai stick was just potent weed and never went near any heroin wash ,
the place they had the opium was a long way from where the sticks were grown as i mentioned and unlikely one group would cooperate with the other , either the sticks would have to be transported or the heroin water .. seems unlikely to me ,

no offence dr , but i dont believe too many thai sticks ever underwent this process despite the western idea it did ...

if it can be proved id have to think again of course , but as far as im aware its just stories due to folks spinning out on strong cannabis they had not encountered before ...

id need to see evidence because i dont believe the stories ...

probably said that to make a few extra bux ,
we had the brown thai stick here too , it didnt have any opium on it , i spoke with one of the smugglers and am still friends with him , he said it wasnt true and there was no opium on the imported thai sticks ,
imagine the overdoses , the addicts etc stuff like that would create , and yet .....

we had golden thai after the sticks were gone , it was stronger than those brown sticks ...

someone also mentioned opium being smoked differently to how we smoke gunja ,
but im not up on smoking opium so i cant comment on that , maybe someone else knows ...

i would add it just wouldnt be commercially viable to do this either , firstly the cost of opium , and secondly the logistics of getting it from one part of thailand to another to mix it ,
the thai sticks were not grown in the same area as the opium ,
so someone would have to transport either tonnes of sticks , or tonnes of water or opium , this is not doable ,

perhaps someone once saw or tried some opium laced weed , but its very very unlikely it was available commercially and exported in large amounts for everyone to try ,
it is as mentioned an urban myth ,
it was just strong weed , there was nothing added to it to make it so...

sure it makes for a fun western story , but its not based on any facts ...

[Cvh]

Sam The Skunkman his personal experience:

I agree I never saw Thai sticks in Thailand with Heroin wash or Opium added it is just made up to help sell the sticks. Opium is much more expensive that Thai sticks were why would Thais want to do this? I knew many in the trade in Thailand none thought it was real, all thought it was made up, also the best Thai did not need anything added. I visited Thailand a dozen times over many years and my focus was always Cannabis or Cannabis seeds. -SamS

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.ph...postcount=5246

[mexcurandero420]

Thai refers to a cannabis variety that grows natively in Thailand and was brought to the U.S. in the 70s and 80s. This pure sativa landrace is sometimes called “Thai Sticks” because of the way its buds are traditionally dried and tied into long sticks. This original Thai variety has given rise to many strains we commonly see on the market today, including Voodoo, Juicy Fruit, and the classic Haze. Thai induces powerful but comfortable effects and has a distinct fruity, citrus aroma. This strain is a challenge for growers outside tropical climates, but greenhouse gardens make this grow possible for experts patient enough for Thai’s long growth cycle and slow flowering.

A Thai Stick consists of premium buds of seedless marijuana which were skewered on stems. Fibers found in the stalk of the marijuana plant were then used to tie the marijuana to the stem to keep it in place. Thai stick bud may also be tied around bamboo sticks with a piece of string.
The Thai Sticks exhibited considerably higher potency in comparison with other cannabis available in Western countries at the time. This added potency was rumored to be caused by the Thai Sticks being dipped in opium or in hash oil. However, the more widely accepted reason is that Thai cannabis growers had for hundreds of years selected seeds from their strongest plants, which coupled with Thailand's long growing season, high temperatures, and rich volcanic soil, conspired to produce an exceptionally potent product.
A number of reasons have been cited for the decline of the Thai Stick: stricter policing of cannabis cultivation; dilution of traditional cannabis populations by earlier maturing, less psychoactive cultivars imported from Pakistan and Afghanistan; the burgeoning indoor growing industry in target markets; and the reduction of military troop transports (which was the primary means of export) between Thailand, particularly Bangkok, and the United States, at the end of the Vietnam War in 1975.

In modern terminology, Thai stick often refers to marijuana tied to a stem as documented above and then dipped into a hashish oil, a potent cannabis derivative which saturates the buds and lends to a stronger smoke. Some California and Washington cannabis clubs sell this product. Originally, this was a frequent practice of the 1970s with the actual Thai stick. There are still some surviving recipes from Cambodia where high quality marijuana and hash oil are used.

https://steemit.com/cannabis/@indigo-seeds/thai-sticks-from-the-1970s

[RandyCalifornia]

[CannaRed]

These rumors always reminded me of horror story myths about a laced joint.

To me it seems like it would be a super rare occasion for a drug dealer, who is all about the dollar, to put a more expensive drug on a cheap joint and still charge weed price.

I didn't come around the drug scene till the 90's. I heard all the same things. Sticks soaked in opium/heroin water. Temple Balls that were hash and opium. But of course I never saw these, way before my time. As much heroin as I've seen, I've never ever seen real opium. Tried to buy it three times. Bunk.
Hell.. I could probably count the number of times I've seen Hashish in my whole life on my two hands! (That wasn't made by me)

I believe that these are mostly all legend, BUT, you know that at some point, some user that had access to both substances, made a small batch for personal consumption. I doubt there were large enough commercial quantities to get past a few buddies. But what the hell do I know, I wasn't around in the heyday

[therevverend]

My friends in Washington state dealt Thai sticks for years, importing them directly from Thailand. Went through I don't know how many pounds. When you'd open the box with the bundles in it there'd be a seal. One of my friends that was getting the boxes collected them, had a huge pile. I need to find out if he still has them. I'd love to get a picture.

Probably told this story before, a buddy of mine got sick, didn't feel good. Went to the doctor. The doctor checked him out, went through the symptoms, and asked him if he'd been smoking Thai sticks. Yeah, he'd been dealing them. Turned out there'd been a batch of opiated sticks exported to the area, people were turning up with withdrawal symptoms when the batch ran out and the next one didn't have the opium.

Out of the total number of shipments only a few were dipped in opium. If my friend hadn't been a dealer and such a stoner he probably wouldn't have gotten strung out, I'd think quite a few people wouldn't have realized their sticks were opiated. I'd guess they were dipped in heroin water as opposed to having opium applied. Since they looked and smelled like any other Thai stick. Opium has a strong odor.

[Mikell]

Ever seen opium smoked?

They have to force it to vaporize with a strong flame.

Doesn't sound like smoking a joint at all. It would go out, no?

[musigny23]

It doesn't seem like this will get settled because once beliefs get deeply established, no amount of evidence to the contrary will change them.

But I'll give it a try anyway.

I'm old enough to have seen, smoked and sold plenty of Thai sticks. That experience runs from about 1975 to 1987-88. I first saw them in the northeast, NYC-CT area but in 1978 I moved to northern California where I saw them every spring and summer for years. Typically they came in to fill in the market hole when local homegrown from the fall harvest ran low.

Like anything, quality varied. The best were just fantastic. The best were considered on par with the best homegrown even though the smoking experience was quite different. Mainly, that was because the sticks were pure tropical "sativa" and by 1979, most all CA homegrown was hybrids of "indica" and "sativa", often leaning toward "indica".

A very big factor in the nature of what Thai sticks were was the cure. Tying and bundling sticks with freshly harvested mostly dry(but not completely)material pressed out the air space in the buds and densely packing them in tropical heat had the effect of an anaerobic curing process. That plus the time it took to get them to the US, usually 3 to 6 months.

That cure when done right, intensified the aromas and effect. An effect that under optimum circumstances was profoundly strong. If there was anything that might convince someone there was more to sticks, that was it.

Many batches of sticks passed through. Where I was however, local homegrown was the generally the dominant product. Often more average quality sticks were skipped or passed along because we had options for high end smoke. By about 1982, actual sticks became rare to see. It all switched to being "untied" or "stickless". At first some of that was exceptionally good. I remember one batch in particular that was not hard pressed, dark green, had visible trichomes and a great spicy fresh aroma.

As the 80s progressed, quality mostly diminished and it was very rare to see quality that matched previous years. I traveled to Thailand a number of times in the late 80s. The US driven War on Drugs was really going strong and having an effect. It was not easy to find high quality weed at that time in Thailand. I hardly ever came across actual sticks there. I did have some hill tribe opium experiences, including hiking through poppy fields after harvest.

So to answer the question, I don't believe there was such a thing as sticks "dipped" in opium or heroin water or hash oil. I never encountered such a thing although I would often hear people tout that "these sticks are dipped in opium man". I smoked many such sticks and never felt an opium high, developed any sort of dependence, or ever experienced any withdrawal symptoms. At times they would be smoked for weeks, plenty of time to get a physical dependence but I never got it or knew anyone who did. They were usually just really strong, that's all. Even at the time, the topic was debated. And some people just really wanted it to be true and you couldn't convince them otherwise.

If you've ever seen opium in Thailand, you'll know you can't "dip" anything in it. It's thick and tarry. And while it's a big world and I certainly could not claim to know everything or seen it all, if anybody ever managed to soak sticks in heroin water or whatever, it's not clear what that would've created. If it would even have succeeded in a product that was a Thai stick, that would look and smell and smoke like a Thai stick but have the added opium high. It was a myth then and it remains one now.

[Donald Mallard]

It doesn't seem like this will get settled because once beliefs get deeply established, no amount of evidence to the contrary will change them.

But I'll give it a try anyway.

I'm old enough to have seen, smoked and sold plenty of Thai sticks. That experience runs from about 1975 to 1987-88. I first saw them in the northeast, NYC-CT area but in 1978 I moved to northern California where I saw them every spring and summer for years. Typically they came in to fill in the market hole when local homegrown from the fall harvest ran low.

Like anything, quality varied. The best were just fantastic. The best were considered on par with the best homegrown even though the smoking experience was quite different. Mainly, that was because the sticks were pure tropical "sativa" and by 1979, most all CA homegrown was hybrids of "indica" and "sativa", often leaning toward "indica".

A very big factor in the nature of what Thai sticks were was the cure. Tying and bundling sticks with freshly harvested mostly dry(but not completely)material pressed out the air space in the buds and densely packing them in tropical heat had the effect of an anaerobic curing process. That plus the time it took to get them to the US, usually 3 to 6 months.

That cure when done right, intensified the aromas and effect. An effect that under optimum circumstances was profoundly strong. If there was anything that might convince someone there was more to sticks, that was it.

Many batches of sticks passed through. Where I was however, local homegrown was the generally the dominant product. Often more average quality sticks were skipped or passed along because we had options for high end smoke. By about 1982, actual sticks became rare to see. It all switched to being "untied" or "stickless". At first some of that was exceptionally good. I remember one batch in particular that was not hard pressed, dark green, had visible trichomes and a great spicy fresh aroma.

As the 80s progressed, quality mostly diminished and it was very rare to see quality that matched previous years. I traveled to Thailand a number of times in the late 80s. The US driven War on Drugs was really going strong and having an effect. It was not easy to find high quality weed at that time in Thailand. I hardly ever came across actual sticks there. I did have some hill tribe opium experiences, including hiking through poppy fields after harvest.

So to answer the question, I don't believe there was such a thing as sticks "dipped" in opium or heroin water or hash oil. I never encountered such a thing although I would often hear people tout that "these sticks are dipped in opium man". I smoked many such sticks and never felt an opium high, developed any sort of dependence, or ever experienced any withdrawal symptoms. At times they would be smoked for weeks, plenty of time to get a physical dependence but I never got it or knew anyone who did. They were usually just really strong, that's all. Even at the time, the topic was debated. And some people just really wanted it to be true and you couldn't convince them otherwise.

If you've ever seen opium in Thailand, you'll know you can't "dip" anything in it. It's thick and tarry. And while it's a big world and I certainly could not claim to know everything or seen it all, if anybody ever managed to soak sticks in heroin water or whatever, it's not clear what that would've created. If it would even have succeeded in a product that was a Thai stick, that would look and smell and smoke like a Thai stick but have the added opium high. It was a myth then and it remains one now.

thanks for taking the time to post your experience ,
what you say about the curing has always been what i thought also,
it is a little similar to what tangwena is wanting from his cob cured cannabis ,
and what i recall trying toking thai stick when i was younger ,
a good cure can really make a difference imho , it seems particularly with that tropical sativa , when done right , nothing compares to it ....



if it had opium on it as you say, it would be very obvious given the look of the raw product , try peeling that out of some alfoil .. lol .



i guess folks think its cool to have tried something others have not , even if its not true , puts you in the "cool group"

[GOT_BUD?]

The rumor we had around us growing up is it was dipped in embalming fluid. There was a specific name for it but it wasn't thai stick.

[therevverend]

Yep the stuff isn't like hashish, you have to torch the hell out of it and half of it runs down into the pipe. You can't 'dip' something in opium, it's hard, or gummy. And like Sam mentioned, why would the people making it waste perfectly good opium on ganja? If the story isn't apocryphal the heroin water is the only method that makes sense. It doesn't seem like something a stoner would make up, most people don't know that something like heroin water would exist. It's clandestine adulteration and creates a new market for their opium. It would also corroborate my friend's story.

I'll question the old retired Thai stick dealers, try to get more details. I know by the mid 80s, maybe 1984 the sticks were gone, replaced by the Chocolate Thai. I've tried looking for old newspaper stories, clippings, whatever, about people getting addicted to opiated Thai stick. I couldn't find anything, there's very little good info on Thai sticks in general.

[Donald Mallard]

ive always wondered about the chocolate thai you guys speak of , we didnt get it here in Australia that im aware of ,, just the sticks , then the golden stuff not on a stick , and some years later we got some compressed stuff that seems to be what still goes around thailand and is apprently laos weed ..

was the chocolate stuff compressed ??