Male ratios and storing pollen

[Chi13]

So my latest grow and the Ganga gods have not smiled.
I planted 9 plants of 2 different varieties, hoping for roughly 3-6 females. I watched in disbelief as so far 8 of them have turned out male. The smallest runt which I nearly culled early on is as yet unsexed, so might be a female. Needless to say I am starting again.
I guess this is just the luck of the draw, and in the past I have usually been fairly lucky. However, I would still expect a roughly 50/50 ratio of males to females. Is this the case or are there other factors at play?

Anyway, I do want to use pollen from the best males in the future. I have stored pollen before in the freezer in plastic tupperware containers, but they have never been viable. What would be the best way to do this?

 

[Mithridate]

Well.. some believe sex is determined at conception, some believe sex is somewhat maleable during the first month of growth.

​​​​​​There is a "higher female ratios protocol"

1. Level of nitrogen and potassium of the seedbed: A heightening of the standard level of nitrogen makes for more female cannabis plants originating from the weed seeds. A lowering of the nitrogen level shows more male cannabis plants. A heightening of the level of potassium tends to show more male marijuana plants, while a lowering of the potassium level shows more female marijuana plants. A combination of a higher nitrogen level for the period of a week or two and a lowering of the potassium level is recommended.
2. Humidity and moistness of the seedbed: a higher humidity makes for an increase in the number of female cannabis plants from weed seed, a lowering for an increase in male cannabis plants. The same is valid for the moistness of the seedbed.
3. Level of temperatures: lower temperatures make for a larger number of female marijuana plants, higher temperatures for more male marijuana plants.
4. Colour of light: more blue light makes for female cannabis plants from seed, more red light makes for more male cannabis plants.
5. Hours of daylight: few hours of daylight (e.g. 14 hours) makes for more female individuals, a long day (e.g. 18 hours) makes for more male cannabis plants.

When it happened to me my seed starting cab was pretty much ideal as far as temps/humidity/light goes.. so I just wrote is off as bad fking luck.

And for pollen storing try these
​​​​the first one is a complete tutorial
second is a quick run down



https://www.icmag.com/forum/marijuan...pollen#post925

 

[Switcher56]

So my latest grow and the Ganga gods have not smiled.
I planted 9 plants of 2 different varieties, hoping for roughly 3-6 females. I watched in disbelief as so far 8 of them have turned out male. The smallest runt which I nearly culled early on is as yet unsexed, so might be a female. Needless to say I am starting again.
I guess this is just the luck of the draw, and in the past I have usually been fairly lucky. However, I would still expect a roughly 50/50 ratio of males to females. Is this the case or are there other factors at play?

Anyway, I do want to use pollen from the best males in the future. I have stored pollen before in the freezer in plastic tupperware containers, but they have never been viable. What would be the best way to do this?

The glass is half full Unless you are terribly unlucky, the remaining seeds of that batch should hold a bunch of fermales

 

[quiescent]

Well.. some believe sex is determined at conception, some believe sex is somewhat maleable during the first month of growth.

​​​​​​There is a "higher female ratios protocol"

1. Level of nitrogen and potassium of the seedbed: A heightening of the standard level of nitrogen makes for more female cannabis plants originating from the weed seeds. A lowering of the nitrogen level shows more male cannabis plants. A heightening of the level of potassium tends to show more male marijuana plants, while a lowering of the potassium level shows more female marijuana plants. A combination of a higher nitrogen level for the period of a week or two and a lowering of the potassium level is recommended.
2. Humidity and moistness of the seedbed: a higher humidity makes for an increase in the number of female cannabis plants from weed seed, a lowering for an increase in male cannabis plants. The same is valid for the moistness of the seedbed.
3. Level of temperatures: lower temperatures make for a larger number of female marijuana plants, higher temperatures for more male marijuana plants.
4. Colour of light: more blue light makes for female cannabis plants from seed, more red light makes for more male cannabis plants.
5. Hours of daylight: few hours of daylight (e.g. 14 hours) makes for more female individuals, a long day (e.g. 18 hours) makes for more male cannabis plants.

When it happened to me my seed starting cab was pretty much ideal as far as temps/humidity/light goes.. so I just wrote is off as bad fking luck.

And for pollen storing try these
​​​​the first one is a complete tutorial
second is a quick run down



https://www.icmag.com/forum/marijuan...pollen#post925

This issue is not a subject you "believe in". Sex is determined at conception.

Nothing you do to your environment will change the sex.

Herms are another issue entirely as the sex isn't changing. It is merely expressing differently based on abiotic stressors.

Please stop spreading broscience bullshit. People whom don't know any better will digest this garbage information and spread it further.

Break the cycle.

 

[Mithridate]

Aahhh yes, settled science the mother of all progress.

so you believe that sex is determined at conception but, does the environment in which the mother grows affect its progeny?

shits not that serious

 

[Chi13]

Thanks for all the replies. I always thought that sex was predetermined but just wanted to check as I have not really kept up to date.

I think I was just unlucky. At first I thought that the chances of so many males was statistically weird, but the more I think about it the less I'm inclined to that way of thought.
Each seed has a 50% chance of being female. That doesn't change whether you have 1 or 100 seeds. Each time you still have a 50/50 chance.

Anyway my final one turned female. It is a horrible plant but at least I will get something, and I have planted some more. You'd think the remaining seeds would likely be female, but stats don't work like that. Each seed still has the same chances. Like tossing a coin 10 times and getting heads each time. You'd think the next time you toss it would most likely be tails, but the coin doesn't know of the preceeding tosses, so 50/50 chance still.

 

[Lolo94]

So my latest grow and the Ganga gods have not smiled.
I planted 9 plants of 2 different varieties, hoping for roughly 3-6 females. I watched in disbelief as so far 8 of them have turned out male. The smallest runt which I nearly culled early on is as yet unsexed, so might be a female. Needless to say I am starting again.
I guess this is just the luck of the draw, and in the past I have usually been fairly lucky. However, I would still expect a roughly 50/50 ratio of males to females. Is this the case or are there other factors at play?

I had the opposite problem. I popped 25 seeds (2 different attempts) and out of 18 or so that germinated none were male. My goal was to create a seed crop. I've never seen anything like it before. I did manage to get a seed crop, by accidentally getting one female to produce some male flowers. After inducing flowering on my second seed run attempt, I increased the lighting time from 11 hours to 14 hours for several weeks to put the plants back to vegetative state. The plan was to grow a different strain and get a male then make a hybrid cross. When I reverted the plants back to flowering 14 hours to 11 hours, one of original females produced a few male flowers before reverting back to female only.

Here is the background:
1) The strain I was attempting to reproduce was never grown indoors. I and others before me have only bred it outdoors in the tropics.
2) The seed was 10 years old.
3) The indoor conditions were less than ideal. Multiple plants were grown in 1 large pot (out of necessety) since the grow setup is small. I've utilized this technique with other more commercial strains (Oriental Blue, Apollo 13BX, African 75, ect...) and have gotten a normal ratio of males to females (3 males and 2 females this past run with Burmese)

I wrote a thread on trying to reproduce this strain indoors (Swazi - Lower Puna IBL).

I haven't grown any of the "feminized" seed crop to see the male/female/hermi ratio yet. I did test pop a few of the seeds which all germinated.

 

[Chi13]

I had the opposite problem. I popped 25 seeds (2 different attempts) and out of 18 or so that germinated none were male. My goal was to create a seed crop. I've never seen anything like it before. I did manage to get a seed crop, by accidentally getting one female to produce some male flowers. After inducing flowering on my second seed run attempt, I increased the lighting time from 11 hours to 14 hours for several weeks to put the plants back to vegetative state. The plan was to grow a different strain and get a male then make a hybrid cross. When I reverted the plants back to flowering 14 hours to 11 hours, one of original females produced a few male flowers before reverting back to female only.

Here is the background:
1) The strain I was attempting to reproduce was never grown indoors. I and others before me have only bred it outdoors in the tropics.
2) The seed was 10 years old.
3) The indoor conditions were less than ideal. Multiple plants were grown in 1 large pot (out of necessety) since the grow setup is small. I've utilized this technique with other more commercial strains (Oriental Blue, Apollo 13BX, African 75, ect...) and have gotten a normal ratio of males to females (3 males and 2 females this past run with Burmese)

I wrote a thread on trying to reproduce this strain indoors (Swazi - Lower Puna IBL).

I haven't grown any of the "feminized" seed crop to see the male/female/hermi ratio yet. I did test pop a few of the seeds which all germinated.

Thanks for posting and very interesting! I think I would rather have had your problem, though frustrating if you want to save a variety. Swazi too, wow, likely worth saving. Do you think it's possible you were using feminised seeds without knowing? By that I mean is it possible a female reversed and seeded the crop perhaps without you realising?

Mine were 2 different strains, one sativa and one sativa dominant from different breeders, so I cannot blame the variety. I won't mention the breeders or variety but they are both very reputable. At least one of my strains came from the tropics, and both from warm areas, but fresh seed.

Ratio's such as we have experienced would be very unusual. Does make me wonder if something else might be at play, although I will still hold to the view that sex is predetermined.

Again, thanks for posting.

 

[StickyBandit]

So my latest grow and the Ganga gods have not smiled.
I planted 9 plants of 2 different varieties, hoping for roughly 3-6 females. I watched in disbelief as so far 8 of them have turned out male. The smallest runt which I nearly culled early on is as yet unsexed, so might be a female. Needless to say I am starting again.
I guess this is just the luck of the draw, and in the past I have usually been fairly lucky. However, I would still expect a roughly 50/50 ratio of males to females. Is this the case or are there other factors at play?

Anyway, I do want to use pollen from the best males in the future. I have stored pollen before in the freezer in plastic tupperware containers, but they have never been viable. What would be the best way to do this?

Would it not be better to store pollen vacuum packed or ziplock bags, after drying, with no air and then placed in tupperware because of the moisture?

 

[Lolo94]

Thanks for posting and very interesting! I think I would rather have had your problem, though frustrating if you want to save a variety. Swazi too, wow, likely worth saving. Do you think it's possible you were using feminised seeds without knowing? By that I mean is it possible a female reversed and seeded the crop perhaps without you realising?

Mine were 2 different strains, one sativa and one sativa dominant from different breeders, so I cannot blame the variety. I won't mention the breeders or variety but they are both very reputable. At least one of my strains came from the tropics, and both from warm areas, but fresh seed.

Ratio's such as we have experienced would be very unusual. Does make me wonder if something else might be at play, although I will still hold to the view that sex is predetermined.

Again, thanks for posting.

The males I used were both phenotypically looking males. They had only male flowers. I guess the caveat is that I don't let the males live until they naturally die, but pick a time (typically early but depending on how many seeds I want) for them to pollinate and then remove them. The only time I had seen hermies outdoors with this strain was when I first acquired the seeds (early 1990's), but they were culled and not used for future breedings. Subsequent outdoor breedings did not produce any hermies, but a high ratio of females to males.

The friends I acquired the seeds from had grown and bred them for years but in a drastically different environment. They had never reported any issues with hermies. My assumption (I don't pretend to be a botanist) is that the less sexually stable plants hermied due to environmental shock. Kalapana (where my seeds originated )is a hot, humid, tropical area with passing showers. Even though only 15 miles away(as the crow flies), the area I grew them is over 3000' higher in elevation, cooler (although not quite temperate), foggier and rainier.

Another interesting tidbit is that the original males in question were also used to pollinate a Red Congolese clone and seeds were created. 5 years ago, I grew out the F1 Swazi/Red Congo seeds and created an F2 generation. The F1 generation had a couple of males and no hermies. The ratio, though, was still more females than males.

I am currently growing out some of the F1 generation of the Swazi/Red Congos, but they've yet to sex. I only have 4 of them so it's impossible to draw any conclusions as far as the age of the seeds being a factor.

 

[Lolo94]

All 4 F1 Swazi/Congos are females (at least showing female preflowers). Has anyone experienced anything like this with old seeds (10+years), where the ratio is so overwhelmingly female? At some point, I'll grow out the F2 Swazi/Congos and see what the sex ratio is.