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    #76
    at the risk of sounding like a kiss ass, it blows my resinated mind that you people (yes hempy, i'm talking about you... among others) argue with sam about this stuff. i mean, the dude is perhaps THE ONLY CANNABIS PROFESSIONAL IN THE WORLD ("white market", at least).

    largest seed collection in the world? check.
    grown more cannabis plants than any other douche bag on an internet forum? check.
    gave the europeans the best of america's first generation hybrids? check.
    went 'legit' & yet still completely involved with cannabis? check.

    quit asking the man to rework you precious RKS, quit telling the guy who he gave seeds to & when. maybe instead, go back & read all of his older posts. you might learn something, in particular the answer to all of these questions that sam gets asked again, and again, and again...
    :::vivo foris lex vos must exsisto pia:::

    Comment


      #77
      I have a friend who is living with some of the hill tribes of the Thailand/Laos/Myanmar border area and making some wonderful collections of phenotypes that I thought were long gone. These lines, like hempy described are, for the most part free of male flowers on the plants which possess a female growth habit. I was originally concerned about influence of commercial strains in the populations, but they are very long flowering, and the sources of the seeds assure him that they are traditional cultivars which go back at least 3 generations. Of course, that can be taken with a grain of salt. But, their words combined with 6-8 months of long nights being required to induce flowering and the presence of the old phenotypes makes me believe they could be the real deal.

      I have collected three noncommercial Bolivian landraces from the eastern mountain ranges. Judging from the phenotype, if I didn't know better would say they are Thai. Some of the plants undergo ten months or more of long nights before even showing sex, which, in my opinion, is more common for Colombian landrace than for Thais, but they aren't like any Colombian I have seen. The aromas and structures aren't reminiscent of the long flowering Colombians but identical to a southeast Asian. Anyways, these lines are also completely devoid of male flowers on the plants displaying a female growth habit. Perhaps the similarities with Thai are due to a comparable distance from the equator, but I wonder if they weren't descended from hermaphrodite free Southeast Asian imports from the last 50 years.

      Comment


        #78
        AnatomiclySound,
        "Neville playing off of Sams reputation? Sam already a legend while Neville was a reformed junky? Thats a nice little spin, but the facts are Neville had the first seed bank that shipped acrossed the globe is responsible for many of the varietys today becoming famous
        ."

        Skunk #1 and Original Haze were famous for a decade or more before Neville ever even thought of selling seeds, wise up. Neville did ship to anyone across internetional borders, something I told him was stupid and would put him in jail. Who was right? When I met Neville he had zero good seeds, he was selling imported Mex seeds and Colombian seeds and African seeds from coffee shop weed for $.25 cents each. They were crap. I gave him Skunk #1 and a few others and he repaid me by copying my varieties and selling them himself cutting me out, after promising he would not.
        You can talk down to me all you want Sam, but thats not going to change the facts of what I posted. I said Neville was responsible for the first seed bank shipping overseas. Nowhere did I say Skunk and Haze werent known before the days of Neville and the Seedbank. Its a well known fact Haze was around before the Seedbank. But Haze didnt gain international recognition as it has today before Neville sold the seeds Overseas to the masses. Sure a relatively small amount of people knew about it but compared to the reputation it has today its quite clear Neville selling the varietys acrossed the globe had an impact on the lure of these varietys.

        I cant speak for what happened exactly between you and Neville, as I mentioned as well as yourself I was not there.

        The reason I am posting is because Neville is being shit on in this thread, and I dont think thats fair? If you dont like the fact somebody is sounding a voice for Nevilles corner, forgive me. But I wont allow the entire thread to turn into a Neville is shit thread, because the man deserves better then that.



        You were not there but RCC was there and can back me up, but what the hell, why am I arguing with someone that has no idea what really happened as it was between me and Neville and you are just repeating a story that was told to you by people that believed Neville and thought he was a man of his word, but he is not.
        You keep pretending my opinion is worthless because I wasnt there, but the sources of whatever information I have posted have been sited. Thats the information we have to work on, and the sources are pretty damn credible Sam.


        "Neville purchased Haze? Sam said he gave it to Neville. Then later claims Neville sold the seeds to Ben when they werent his.
        So which is it, Sam gave the genetics to Neville.........or Neville Purchased them?
        And if he purchased them, how could Neville sell something to Ben that wasnt his? If he purchased them, then they were his!
        If you give them to someone, then that gift is theirs! So to claim Neville stole something that wasnt his, when he had them in his possession is suspect.
        Possession is 9/10s of the law."
        I can't believe you are this thick...
        I sold him seeds not the variety, get it??? He sold Ben the variety, but he did not own it, get it???
        You say posession is 9/10s of the law so if I buy a pack of Shantibabas SSH I can then sell the SSH variety seeds to everyone? If that is what you mean then you are a low life dude, and I will put your posts on ignore or remove them from the thread.
        Remember I am the Moderator for this thread.
        Why are you calling me names Sam? You had quite an attitude with me yesterday when we discussed this same subject, however I was very cordial to you as you deserve. And nowhere have I said anything negative about you, not even once! But I have stated Neville isnt here to tell his side of the story, so we cant rush to calling him a liar.

        And people can and do sell Shantibabas SSH as their own. And he is aware of this, and has publically stated theres not much you can do. Once the seeds are purchased, they belong to the person who purchased them. This kind of thing happens all the time in the industry. Im sure you would agree.

        You're calling me a low life now? Again, Ive not said anything to you out of the way. But you're now resorting to calling me names. Thats a pretty low thing to do considering I am posting information that is as reliable as one can get. Just because they dont mesh up with your version, doesnt mean they are shit opinions. Neville isnt here to tell his side of the story, but there is a Neville bashing fest going on. So am I suppost to ignore the fact Neville is being trashed?

        Think again.



        Remember I am the Moderator for this thread.

        "Never intended to bum you out Sam, as I have mentioned I respect you more then you realize. The conversation ends here from my stand point."

        When you posted that a few days ago I hoped it was true, but I can now see it was not after all.

        -SamS
        I do have respect for what youve accomplished in the industry, however with your calling me names and your general overall tone towards me that respect is diminishing.

        So what you're the moderator of this thread? You're not doing yourself any favors by calling members names who have not said anything out of the way to you. Just because your a moderator, doesnt mean I should change my opinion based on the available information.

        The conversation was finished from my stand point, until the Neville bashing got into full swing. With few taking the time to respond with any kind of valid response for these assertions, somebody had to say something. And I did.

        Im rather surprised you have talked to me this way Sam, I really am. I have stated I respect you for your accomplishments, and have been very polite to you. However you have not returned the favor.
        Last edited by AnatomiclySound; 02-25-2008, 14:22.

        Comment


          #79
          Originally posted by British_Hempire
          I was trying to prevent an argument, not provoke one so I'll be leaving this thread now. Shame it's going the way of so many other threads these days, so much negativity...
          Thats rather laughable considering what you have posted in this thread.

          You want to talk about negativity?

          Originally posted by British Hempire

          BTW I can't believe some folks are convinced Neville (who disappeared years ago) spoke the gospel truth about the origins of his Haze. It's not much of a stretch to come to the conclusion that when Neville met Sam in Holland in the 80s, Sam was already a legend and Neville a reformed junkie aiming to make a name for himself,
          Originally posted by British Hempire
          The DEA arrested Neville Schoenmakers in Australia in 1990 for sending a load of seeds from Holland to New Orleans, he's kinda been in hiding ever since so good luck tracking him down and getting him to tell the truth
          Yeah, your hands are clean of negativity.


          Maybe if you gained some respect, backed up the statements you make with sources then we would be getting somewhere. But it looks like you and others are intent on being negative. Not the other way around.


          When perhaps the best Breeder in the industry says its a fact a majority of the Industry is working off Nevilles accomplishments then one has to stop and consider his words. Shantibaba is as honest as you can find in this business.

          Originally Posted by shantibaba
          The whole seed industry based alot of things on Neville's origins in fact , but none except Sensi Seed had the parent plants to replicate things time and time again.
          Last edited by AnatomiclySound; 02-25-2008, 14:57.

          Comment


            #80
            kopite,
            "I don't think theres ever been a purple haze pot, not according to those I've spoke to anyhow.."

            Can you tell me what I was smoking back in the 70's? It was purple and Original Haze.
            Wish I could tell you !!!!!

            If it was original haze in a purple form i would of thought it would still be around today !!!

            I was just going on what others have told me... I wasn't there so cannot comment

            was an opinion not gospel....

            was it a strain that had been worked on and stabilised or just a random plant ?...


            I aint trying to be an ass i just like facts


            I can't believe you are this thick...
            I sold him seeds not the variety, get it??? He sold Ben the variety, but he did not own it, get it???
            You say posession is 9/10s of the law so if I buy a pack of Shantibabas SSH I can then sell the SSH variety seeds to everyone? If that is what you mean then you are a low life dude, and I will put your posts on ignore or remove them from the thread.
            Remember I am the Moderator for this thread.
            I presume then that Nevile did no work on the seeds (strain) you sold him ? IYO when does a strain become your own work ? for instance if I purchased Chims Aurora and inbred it for the traits i wanted, should it always be refered to as Chimeras aurora or my work (name)...
            Last edited by kopite; 02-25-2008, 14:55.

            Comment


              #81
              Sam
              I believe you were told this by someone who believed it to be true, but that does not make it true, if Neville lied then all the rest is lies regardless of how good or truthfull the people that told you are. I thought you were going to stop?


              Sam i am going to stop and will only talk cannabis as i dont like polutics never have.


              Sam
              Don't know what to say, I have seen it a million times...
              How much Thai seeds from Thailand have you grown? I have grown thousands and maybe 25% were hermi, before during and after sexing. There are many many different forms of intersexed female plants.


              I cant honestly say how many seeds i grew but i grew a few diffrent lines of sativas from thialand.

              Heres just one thia line i was gifted this one by an older grower who is a horticulturalist lines from 78 seed found in imported thia from 78 was grown and selected since then 6 generations i thort 10 but re asket told 6.

              I belive this to be a low land thia sativa hates any type of ferts once flowering starts and take 10 weeks or longer to even start to sex so you need to expect this to go way past 20 weeks in flower took a sister plant of her well into the plus 20 weeks she had much more to go out doors this line will yield huge best the guy i got her from got was 10 pound from one plant.





              Young pic of the fem.




              Pic of the fem as she is showing sex.



              Pic of erly flower from fem.



              Pic of the top of one of the hermies.




              Not the best pics but good inuf.



              jim dankness
              at the risk of sounding like a kiss ass, it blows my resinated mind that you people (yes hempy, i'm talking about you... among others) argue with sam about this stuff. i mean, the dude is perhaps THE ONLY CANNABIS PROFESSIONAL IN THE WORLD ("white market", at least).



              No ones argueing theres a diffrence i sed i didnt see sativas thia sativas being one line show hermie in female plants threw flowering and only saw hermies showing at sexing unlike lines sold in urope there things i saw and facts now sorry if i dont agree .
              Last edited by Dalaihempy; 02-25-2008, 15:17.

              Comment


                #82
                Originally posted by Sam_Skunkman
                It is absurd that neville said he got 1969 O Haze seeds from the Haze Bros.
                #1 Neville first traveled to USA in 86 or 87 at the earliest, the main Haze Brother, R was gone, retired in Mexico by 82 he did not come back for 10 years. He was the one that created O Haze. The second Haze Brother J quit growing O Haze about 1980 and only grew Skunk #1 after that, until he became a reborn christian, then he quit growing, and anyway recently he told me he never met Neville and he certainly did not sell any Haze seeds to him or anyone else ever.
                #2 The Haze Bros had a falling out in the late 70's and stopped talking to one another, for certain they did not sell seeds as the Haze Bros to anyone, it is ridiculous as well as impossible.
                Lets be honest Neville got the seeds from me, but he had promised me that he would not make pure Haze and sell them as such, I told him it was fine to make Haze hybrids with other varieties that were not mine.
                He broke his word and started selling Haze pure and hybrids with my varieties, and I stopped working with him.
                Maybe he lied to avoid the problems that accompany breaking your word? I can not say, but I know Neville did not meet the Haze Bros and did not get any O Haze seeds from them. Both the Haze Bros were close friends of mine and both were close neighbors for years, J lived a few hundred meters from my house until he departed to Mexico.

                -SamS
                Man Sam you HAVE TO write a book about your experiences and don't say you don't have time for it, I will loved to read it, like fear and loathing in las vegas, you where on the top of the wave of the cannabis generation at that time. You can not let us stay like these.
                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~
                Grows: Shiva Shanti, White widow (Sensi), BubbleGum (Serious Seeds), DSD (Reservoir), BubblegumxDSD (myself), Super Silver Haze, Neville Haze (MrNice), HashBerry (Mandala)
                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~
                Fridge: Neville Haze, NL5xHZ, Black Widow, Afghan Haze (MrNice), Skunk#1, NL, O. Haze, Afghan#1, Mama Thai (Seedsman), Love Potion#1, Double Skunk (Refeerman), Hashberry (Mandala), Snowdog BX1, Chemdog BX2, DSD (Reservoir) Manala, Mazar-i-Sharif (RSC) O. HazexSkunk#1 (SamS) HashberryxNevilleHaze, BubblegumxDSD (myself)
                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~

                Comment


                  #83
                  Originally posted by Sam_Skunkman

                  I don't believe in taking improved western bred Cannabis to areas of traditional Cannabis cultivation, they may spread their genes around and I don't think it is good.
                  BTW, Also it was 10,000 males, not 10,000 plants.
                  -SamS

                  Man if you grow 10,000 males then how many seeds you have to lay down 20,000 at least imagine the space and equipment you needed. Was all of these done in US or Holland?
                  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~
                  Grows: Shiva Shanti, White widow (Sensi), BubbleGum (Serious Seeds), DSD (Reservoir), BubblegumxDSD (myself), Super Silver Haze, Neville Haze (MrNice), HashBerry (Mandala)
                  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~
                  Fridge: Neville Haze, NL5xHZ, Black Widow, Afghan Haze (MrNice), Skunk#1, NL, O. Haze, Afghan#1, Mama Thai (Seedsman), Love Potion#1, Double Skunk (Refeerman), Hashberry (Mandala), Snowdog BX1, Chemdog BX2, DSD (Reservoir) Manala, Mazar-i-Sharif (RSC) O. HazexSkunk#1 (SamS) HashberryxNevilleHaze, BubblegumxDSD (myself)
                  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~

                  Comment


                    #84
                    AnatomiclySound,

                    "You can talk down to me all you want Sam, but thats not going to change the facts of what I posted. I said Neville was responsible for the first seed bank shipping overseas. Nowhere did I say Skunk and Haze werent known before the days of Neville and the Seedbank. Its a well known fact Haze was around before the Seedbank. But Haze didnt gain international recognition as it has today before Neville sold the seeds Overseas to the masses. Sure a relatively small amount of people knew about it but compared to the reputation it has today its quite clear Neville selling the varietys acrossed the globe had an impact on the lure of these varietys."

                    That is one way to look at the FACTS but another way is to say that Neville became famous on the coattails of some very great Cannabis, I prefer this. I mean please name the variety of Cannabis that was deveoped by Neville alone, not based on another breeders work like Original Haze, Skunk #1, Northern Lights, Calif Orange, Pollyana, Durban Poison, Big Bud, Afghani #1, Kush, Early Girl, Acapulco Gold, Early Pearl, G-13, Hash Plant, Hawaiian Indica, Garlic Bud, none of these were developed by Neville, he did use them to make lots of seeds to sell. I say Neville was what he was, and that did not include creating great Cannabis from scratch, rather he took great Cannabis varieties and made a few crosses to get fast results, not hard to say the least. He did help a lot of people get a start with seeds, but that is another thing.. and he paid the price.

                    "The reason I am posting is because Neville is being shit on in this thread, and I dont think thats fair? If you dont like the fact somebody is sounding a voice for Nevilles corner, forgive me. But I wont allow the entire thread to turn into a Neville is shit thread, because the man deserves better then that. "

                    I am only telling the truth, sometimes the truth hurts...

                    "You keep pretending my opinion is worthless because I wasnt there, but the sources of whatever information I have posted have been sited. Thats the information we have to work on, and the sources are pretty damn credible Sam."

                    I am saying you were not there and none of the people you are getting this from were there, so in fact they do not know the truth, they only know what others told them was the truth, if they were lied to then they do not know the truth, how could they?? They may think they know the truth, they may even think they are telling the truth but it does not make it true if they were lied to in the first place.

                    "Why are you calling me names Sam? You had quite an attitude with me yesterday when we discussed this same subject, however I was very cordial to you as you deserve. And nowhere have I said anything negative about you, not even once! But I have stated Neville isnt here to tell his side of the story, so we cant rush to calling him a liar."

                    I said I can't believe you are this thick? That is not calling you names, in my book. but maybe close.

                    "You're calling me a low life now?"

                    Only if you think it is ok to rip other peoples work... I do not.

                    "You're calling me a low life now? Again, Ive not said anything to you out of the way. But you're now resorting to calling me names. Thats a pretty low thing to do"

                    Please stop, Please stop, PLEASE STOP!!!

                    "The conversation was finished from my stand point, until the Neville bashing got into full swing. With few taking the time to respond with any kind of valid response for these assertions, somebody had to say something. And I did.
                    Im rather surprised you have talked to me this way Sam, I really am. I have stated I respect you for your accomplishments, and have been very polite to you. However you have not returned the favor."

                    PLEASE STOP POSTING IN THIS THREAD!!!!!

                    -SamS
                    Last edited by Sam_Skunkman; 02-25-2008, 15:31.

                    Comment


                      #85
                      Originally posted by Sam_Skunkman
                      PLEASE STOP POSTING IN THIS THREAD!!!!!

                      -SamS
                      Unbelievable.

                      Comment


                        #86
                        Anatomicalysound,

                        I don't know you and vice versa.... but one fact is we weren't there so cannot comment... IMHO it would be up to Nev to defend himself... Sam and Nev know the truth... it went down between them and should prob stay between them IMO, it serves no purpose to have a slanging match... for instance i had a difference of opinion over a seedbank at another site.. it went off with another member who actually I used to get on with.. damage is done now... the thing is it was never our argument it was between the two the shit went down with.....

                        anyway i'm all for discussions long as we all play nice

                        Comment


                          #87
                          Hi,
                          I remember back in 1985 or so, I bought some seeds from SSSB. They were, Haze and Skunk X Afghani. I got the little seed catalog (that I still have) with photos of the Haze you all are probably talking about.

                          I grew that stuff out in a big cut over and it grew 14 feet tall and produced about 5 pounds of some of the baddest weed ever seen in those parts..I still have some seeds from that.

                          I also wish Skunk X Afghani was still available because that was also an outstanding strain for growing outdoors in the south. My friends were amazed. The dang seeds were like $60!

                          I guess the guy Neville is the dude from the SSSB who got busted or something. Anyway, I have some of the O*TXHXSK and want to thank Sam, Neville and all of those dudes for for their work and hope they are around for a long time!.

                          I have been hearing 12 weeks or so for maturation on O*TXHXSK. I will let you all know what happens.

                          Take it easy!

                          Li'l Abner

                          Comment


                            #88
                            sam skunkman your the fuckin man

                            my first forum n my first reply from you. thank you sam and thank you all for your info n input.sam the more of your post i read .the more interesting you become i respect all of your work but without tlking to you i respect you as a man.your as real as they come i bet we'd get along great.

                            im excited maybe to much but for the first few days no reply n i return today to see 6 pages.wonerful
                            in NYC around my way we say if it anint church it anint fire
                            more incense and less nonsense

                            Comment


                              #89
                              kopite,
                              Yes Purple Original haze was absolutely a reality. It was around for more then a decade in the late 60's , 70's, and from then on in the form of hybrids. It came in silver, blue, reddish, as well as purple, and almost black. I grew, smoked, saw them all. They were real.

                              -SamS

                              Comment


                                #90
                                I can't believe you idiots are arguing with one of the best cannabis breeders around. That would be like arguing w/ oriville redenbocker or however you spell his name about pop corn if he was still alive. Sam is a profesional and was there 30 years ago doin all this shit and has grown probably millions of plants, he is why breeding is the way it is today you guys just need to shut up and listen to the wise. Plus my question was avoided due to most of your guys ignorance.

                                Wow so much information Sam you are a legend to me. After reading all this I'm getting quit confused as to which so called original haze i would want to cross w/ an unkown hybrid that i have that is an amazing resilent plant. Would it be the Flying Dutchmans "original haze"?

                                Sorry for not understanding, it's just the words original haze have been used alot and i dont know if you mean the actual original or the hybrid of the original or nevilles haze.
                                M.U.R.D.A

                                09 Outdoor http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=129682

                                Masterlow Outdoor http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.p...38#post2521938

                                Comment

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