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question for sam the skunkman on the original haze

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    #16
    Originally posted by Resingrower
    Anatomic please dont tell me you prefer a Kush to a Haze line ? There are many reasons its a bigger topic but not b/c of the quality of high...probably b/c of the complex growing conditions of Haze vs the simplicity of kush
    lol, I never said anything of the sort Resingrower.


    One of the main reasons the Kush is so highly reguarded is because its good. And ofcourse they are easier to deal with then some of the Haze lines, but that begs the question. There are several sativa fanatics online, and have been for many years. We have thousands, if not 10s of thousands of growers who participate in the various forums. What I notice is a lack of grow reports on the Original Haze, even though you see consistant post on how good the marijuana is. Rarely do we see actual grow reports, which if validating the description of these lines would surely bring more growers into the picture.

    That has not been the case, and I find it quite interesting to be honest. In my experiences the Hazes are good, even quite good. But none have measured up to the descriptions we hear/read about on the forums. And there is a void of reliable members past and present who have grown these varietys and reported their findings.


    My position is not that Haze is better then Kush, or vice versa. Its just interesting to note the reputation Original Haze has, yet there is a lack of growers/reports to authenticate the numerous characterizations of high associated with Original Haze.
    Last edited by AnatomiclySound; 02-24-2008, 05:02.

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      #17
      And I am wondering Sam if the stock from seedsman is originally from you as well and if you would recommened it personally to buy stuff from there.
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~
      Grows: Shiva Shanti, White widow (Sensi), BubbleGum (Serious Seeds), DSD (Reservoir), BubblegumxDSD (myself), Super Silver Haze, Neville Haze (MrNice), HashBerry (Mandala)
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~
      Fridge: Neville Haze, NL5xHZ, Black Widow, Afghan Haze (MrNice), Skunk#1, NL, O. Haze, Afghan#1, Mama Thai (Seedsman), Love Potion#1, Double Skunk (Refeerman), Hashberry (Mandala), Snowdog BX1, Chemdog BX2, DSD (Reservoir) Manala, Mazar-i-Sharif (RSC) O. HazexSkunk#1 (SamS) HashberryxNevilleHaze, BubblegumxDSD (myself)
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~

      Comment


        #18
        AnatomiclySound,
        "First things first, you should be aware I have alot of respect for you. But I have to say that Ive got first hand knowledge from those involved at MNS that contradict your story of giving Neville the seeds that ultimately went into the Nevilles Haze. They can and do trace their haze stock back to 1969 and I have absolutely no reason to doubt their words."
        "Originally Posted by shantibaba :Nh is made from Haze C male which is made by two pure haze parents from 1969....then the female side of NH is made from Haze A combined to NL5 or NL5Haze A where Haze A was also made by two pure Haze parents also from 1969"

        You do not have first hand anything as none of the people at MNSeeds were even around when I showed Neville his first Original Haze, he had never seen it before, he told me so, it was in 84, and Shantibaba was not even in Holland. I like Shantibaba and he just does not know the facts because he was not here, and/or he has been misled by others.
        As for anyone (if I got this right) implying that Original Haze clones from 1969 are used, and alive, that is plain insane, there are no Cannabis clones from 1969, that is for sure. But maybe he meant seeds from 1969? And not grown until the 80's? To be honest I do not know, except the only Original Haze seeds sold prior to the 80's were mine, That I made after 1976. One way or another something is not correct about the 1969 date, and that is what you are going on. As far as I know all Nevilles work with Haze was from Original Haze he got from me, thats what he told me anyway, back in the 80's.

        -SamS
        Last edited by Sam_Skunkman; 02-24-2008, 09:18.

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by Sam_Skunkman
          AnatomiclySound,
          "
          You do not have first hand anything as none of the people at MNSeeds were even around when I showed Neville his first Original Haze, he had never seen it before, he told me so, it was in 84, and Shantibaba was not even in Holland. I like Shantibaba and he just does not know the facts because he was not here, and/or he has been misled by others.
          As for anyone (if I got this right) implying that Original Haze clones from 1969 are used, and alive, that is plain insane, there are no Cannabis clones from 1969, that is for sure. But maybe he meant seeds from 1969? And not grown until the 80's? To be honest I do not know, except the only Original Haze seeds sold prior to the 80's were mine, That I made after 1976. One way or another something is not correct about the 1969 date, and that is what you are going on. As far as I know all Nevilles work with Haze was from Original Haze he got from me, thats what he told me anyway, back in the 80's.

          -SamS
          Hi Sam,
          Yes Im aware of your position on this Sam, but as I said I have no reason to doubt the words of the MNS crew. Shantibaba is one of the most outstanding gentleman in the industry. And as far as the 1969 lines, I do believe the plants in question were pulled from Seed not clone. And to my knowledge,(dont quote me on this) there are backup seeds from the same stock in case anything major were to happen.

          Comment


            #20
            joaquin386
            "And I am wondering Sam if the stock from seedsman is originally from you"

            I do not know what any seed seller sells, ask them if it is my varieties or if I made the seeds.
            Remember I suggest real Original Haze for breeding, not commercial crops, you may be lucky and find a real keeper for production, but the odds are low. Just try and cross the best you find X your favorite varieties, and you will find lots of keepers.

            -SamS

            Comment


              #21
              i´m searching for a friend that have health problem the original skunk, but only i heard that the more similar to the original skunk is the Road Kill Skunk... skunkman please, lights my way bro!, who is the more similar to the real skunk?

              Thanks for everythink friends!
              Creating da Wu Tang Plant !!!!!!!

              Searching Old Dirty Skunk

              Lmn, ya nos veremos viejo
              RIP

              be carefull clik clak

              Comment


                #22
                Yes, Neville received his Haze seeds from the Haze Brothers.

                Originally Posted by shantibaba
                Nevil received seed of from the Haze bros and through alot of trial and error that is where the few Haze selected males and females came from.
                I believe Nev and Sam were doing a few things ...but separately and Sam is only speculating about the Haze. The egos got in the way more than anything else. THe only thing that makes me a little skeptical about Sam's view is the point he says he gave Nev his worst Haze for Nev to make seed with. How did he know it was the worst ,had he bred it to other Hazes? Why had he kept it so long, and for what reasons would a good breeder keep a so called bad Haze plant? Why would he agree for Nev to make a batch of seed with it if it was bs? and so on....for me that point seems more ego than reality. To this day both Nevil and I have used Haze seed and selected Haze plants to continue to make old strains as well as develop newer hybrids.SSH is tested and tried by so many people world wide, regardless of all the speculations MNS has the real one that made so many growers happy, what evidence do you all need more?

                All the best Sb
                Last edited by AnatomiclySound; 02-24-2008, 11:25.

                Comment


                  #23
                  Well, Neville isn't around for us to ask, but to me, what Sam says about not knowing where the year 1969 comes into play reings very true. Perhaps Neville just picked the year to give the line he was selling extra cachet - lots of things in the seed biz are made up just to sell seeds, it happens in most industries and it's called marketing but when you know the truth marketing just looks like a pack of lies!

                  Sam, what would you say the ratio of truly great Haze plants to ones not so good is with the Original Haze line? How many would you suggest someone should grow out to look for the special individuals?

                  Got any tips for growing Haze indoors or is it a case of Haze just won't work too well under lights?

                  Good luck finding a Skunk that smells like a Skunk Alfred. Sam has said many times that he worked the Skunk #1 line to be sweet and not so smelly as the smell was so bad it would go through brick walls and folks were getting busted as a result. You won't find what you're looking for from Skunk #1 and Sam has said he has no plans to re-release an older Skunk line from before he selected out the stinky indica side. Perhaps you will find something suitable for your friend from an Afghan line as many Afghan have very strong sometimes unpleasant odours and it is said that most of the 'RKS' around in the early 80s in the US was outdoor Afghanis, certainly I know people who were growing Afghans outdoors in Georgia in 1984 and they say the famous 'Georgia Skunk' was outdoor Afghani buds.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by AnatomiclySound
                    Hi Sam,
                    Yes Im aware of your position on this Sam, but as I said I have no reason to doubt the words of the MNS crew. Shantibaba is one of the most outstanding gentleman in the industry. And as far as the 1969 lines, I do believe the plants in question were pulled from Seed not clone. And to my knowledge,(dont quote me on this) there are backup seeds from the same stock in case anything major were to happen.
                    So fine, where did they come from in 1969 as the Haze Brothers never made extra seeds or sold seeds? It is a nice story but it has no basis in facts. Unless you can explain where the seeds came from in 1969 it is all just a bunch of talk. I don't think Shantibaba knows the real truth, he was not there in 1969, and anyone could of made up anything about seeds to sell them to MNSeed Co, but I bet if you ask he got them from Neville, and then I do know the truth and it is not as you say.

                    Anyway enough of this, you were not there, you are repeating the stories of others who were not their, no one you talk to was there, and it is a waste of my time to argue with somone who in fact does not have any idea or know the truth about what happened in 1969 or 1984 with Original Haze.
                    You have no idea how close I was to the Haze Bros and it bum's me out that people so far removed form the events try and tell me what happened, remember I was there.

                    -SamS

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by AnatomiclySound
                      Yes, Neville received his Haze seeds from the Haze Brothers themselves.
                      Funny, I still know them and they both said point blank no way.
                      BTW One of the Haze Bros spent all of the 80's & 90's in Mexico retired, the other Haze grower had quit growing Original Haze in 1980 because he found Skunk #1 easier to grow. Niether ever made large batches of seeds, and as far as I know neither had any Original Haze seeds left by the early 1980's when Neville got them from the Haze Bros??? And they both clearly said they did not sell Neville anything, or even meet him.

                      Remember that Shantibaba was not around when Neville claimed to get Original Haze Seeds from the Haze Bros, he may well have been told this by Neville but it does not make it true. Neville has been know to bend the truth more then once, and has lied to me more then once, when it was to his advantage.

                      -SamS
                      Last edited by Sam_Skunkman; 02-24-2008, 09:55.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by British_Hempire
                        Well, Neville isn't around for us to ask, but to me, what Sam says about not knowing where the year 1969 comes into play reings very true. Perhaps Neville just picked the year to give the line he was selling extra cachet - lots of things in the seed biz are made up just to sell seeds, it happens in most industries and it's called marketing but when you know the truth marketing just looks like a pack of lies!

                        .
                        To be honest with you British, I wouldnt expect any less from you then this post. Im not sure how you insinuate the 1969 quote is a lie, and claim it rings true to you?

                        How does it ring true to you? What part in any of this did you play? To call someone a liar without any proof is in bad taste British, especially when you have ZERO evidence to support your position. Nobody is even calling anyone a liar in this thread, but you. Why would you come into this thread and start dropping negative comments?

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by Sam_Skunkman
                          joaquin386
                          "And I am wondering Sam if the stock from seedsman is originally from you"

                          I do not know what any seed seller sells, ask them if it is my varieties or if I made the seeds.
                          Remember I suggest real Original Haze for breeding, not commercial crops, you may be lucky and find a real keeper for production, but the odds are low. Just try and cross the best you find X your favorite varieties, and you will find lots of keepers.

                          -SamS
                          Thanks for the advice SamS much apreciated.
                          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~
                          Grows: Shiva Shanti, White widow (Sensi), BubbleGum (Serious Seeds), DSD (Reservoir), BubblegumxDSD (myself), Super Silver Haze, Neville Haze (MrNice), HashBerry (Mandala)
                          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~
                          Fridge: Neville Haze, NL5xHZ, Black Widow, Afghan Haze (MrNice), Skunk#1, NL, O. Haze, Afghan#1, Mama Thai (Seedsman), Love Potion#1, Double Skunk (Refeerman), Hashberry (Mandala), Snowdog BX1, Chemdog BX2, DSD (Reservoir) Manala, Mazar-i-Sharif (RSC) O. HazexSkunk#1 (SamS) HashberryxNevilleHaze, BubblegumxDSD (myself)
                          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by Sam_Skunkman
                            So fine, where did they come from in 1969 as the Haze Brothers never made extra seeds or sold seeds? It is a nice story but it has no basis in facts. Unless you can explain where the seeds came from in 1969 it is all just a bunch of talk. I don't think Shantibaba knows the real truth, he was not there in 1969, and anyone could of made up anything about seeds to sell them to MNSeed Co, but I bet if you ask he got them from Neville, and then I do know the truth and it is not as you say.

                            Anyway enough of this, you were not there, you are repeating the stories of others who were not their, no one you talk to was there, and it is a waste of my time to argue with somone who in fact does not have any idea or know the truth about what happened in 1969 or 1984 with Original Haze.
                            You have no idea how close I was to the Haze Bros and it bum's me out that people so far removed form the events try and tell me what happened, remember I was there.

                            -SamS
                            You're right Sam, I wasnt there. Never claimed to be mate, but we as growers/customers of the various seedbanks like to discuss things such as this becuase its our money that goes for these varietys.
                            Some of us take this all very seriously, and even the smallest detail is considered a morsel. I can only bring information to this thread that I obtain from the most reliable sources available.

                            I have no reason to doubt Neville and Shantibaba, but I can see your position clearly Sam. In my experience through the years, the people at MNS have been very honest and forth right with me and others. They are the only bank that stands behind their seeds 100%. Thats something I would call admirable and is a sign of deep rooted honesty. They sell a product, and want their customers to be happy. If their customers are not happy, they go out of their way to make it right. Thats the hallmark of an honest man and an honest company.

                            So I have no reason to call Neville or Shantibaba a liar. But the information is available for all to decipher. There is no reason for information to be held tight, hidden away from the masses. Its the history of the varietys and industry that many of us are very passionate about. So the facts, whatever they may be are always something extremely valuable in a historical context.
                            Last edited by AnatomiclySound; 02-24-2008, 10:01.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              I am sure Shantibaba would tell the truth if he knew the truth, but he was told these FACTS by Neville whom I know tells lies. But please no more about this, I find it upsetting too argue the facts with someone that has them second or third hand. It is a waste of my time to be honest I don't like it.

                              I mean Neville sold all my varieties to Sinsi Seeds when he closed the Seed Bank, for big $ and then I told Ben they were never Neville's to sell in the first place and I had spent years developing them, I don't blame Ben but I do think Neville is not someone that you go to to find the truth, unless it is to his advantge to tell the truth.

                              -SamS
                              Last edited by Sam_Skunkman; 02-24-2008, 10:13.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by Sam_Skunkman
                                I am sure Shantibaba would tell the truth if he knew the truth, but he was told these FACTS by Neville whom I know tells lies. But please no more about this, I find it upsetting too argue the facts with someone that has them second or third hand. It is a waste of my time to be honest I I don't like it.

                                -SamS
                                Never intended to bum you out Sam, as I have mentioned I respect you more then you realize. The conversation ends here from my stand point.

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