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question for sam the skunkman on the original haze

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    G13 is not from University of Miss, I have been to the facility, I was invited to visit by Dr El Sohly , I asked them about G13 and they looked in their records and said they never had a plant called G13, they did not even have clones until a few yeas ago.

    I know I always selected for large calyxs with Original Haze, and it was not so hard as OHaze has big calyxs anyway.

    Yes I introduced California Orange.

    -SamS

    Comment


      I just finished a grow of Woodhorse TW and never had one with red sap.

      I'm not surprised about the G13 thing, stories get told and legends are born every day, some last a long time others evaporate quickly.

      Comment


        yea man i think the haze shows the large calyx and you probley play a bigger role then you give yourslef in alot of genes man. as for the cali o man well damn defantly alot of respect for you man you defantly had/have it down. youve made alot of people happy man.
        Wake up and turn me loose
        For the rain is falling

        Got to have kaya now
        For the rain is falling

        I'm so high, I even touch the sky
        Above the falling rain
        I feel so good in my neighbourhood, so
        Here I come again

        Got to have kaya now


        LOVE YOUR PLANTS

        Comment


          Originally posted by Sam_Skunkman
          G13 is not from University of Miss, I have been to the facility, I was invited to visit by Dr El Sohly , I asked them about G13 and they looked in their records and said they never had a plant called G13, they did not even have clones until a few yeas ago.

          I know I always selected for large calyxs with Original Haze, and it was not so hard as OHaze has big calyxs anyway.

          Yes I introduced California Orange.

          -SamS

          hiya sam from what i know the G13 got its name from G (Goverment Clone ) / 13 (Greenhouse no-13) were it was taken from.


          heres an intresting post by a guy from CW named nom de fluer.


          Hi, all
          I thought I could add some history to help back hempy's point.
          The G-13 clone was discovered by a guy named Sandy Wienstien. A founding member of Sacred Seeds, Breeder of Early Girl, He also discovered the Bay Area Durban Poison clone (the same clone All dutch DP is based on). During the mid 70's Sandy W and members of the Bay Area (SK#1) group were working in cooperation on some of their afgans. A couple of the plants intro'd
          early into both programs brought a near fatal vunerabilty to grey mold. Both
          programs had to backtrack while new afgans were found to replace the culled
          plants, as well as beginig an extensive tourure testing program for the remaning stock.

          Sandy had a group of friends, growers who lived in his area (S.Ark-N
          Miss)One of these friends was a grower, and first year botany student who
          had,by shear accident, landed a job working with Carlton Turner , who ran
          the US gov. pot program @ U of Miss. Sandy's friends job? using the early,rather primitive tests they had at the time to test Afganica plants for THC level! As Sandy's Early Girl program in the MW and the Skunk#1 people in
          Cali were on a desperate search for Afganicas. Sandy enlisted his friend to send him anything "interesting". Sandy's friend sent him 23 plants in all, and to differetiate these from his regular Afgani stock, which he labeled
          A1, A2 etc., Sandy designated his "government" plants G1-23. None of these were used in any Sacred Seeds breeding program.

          Sandy saved only a very few of these G clones,among these was G-13. He was to busy and never had a chance to do anything with it,so it stayed on the shelf.

          But he saved it knowing it was a special plant, a "sport".In its pure form it was apparently not very pleasant smoke, tasting like lawn clippings,soaked in
          a mixture of urine and feces (fecal flavors are common in pure afganicas) with a lovelly aftertaste of burning tires.

          The shear power could not be denied however and that's what made the strain's rep. As I sayed,G-13 was a breeders plant,(see MJ Botony p70) for a description of a sport but basically it's a plant that shows benificial mutations which can be passed down to the next gen. In the case of G-13 it was a scraglly plant with lowish yields, but it had the desirable trait of massive resin production. So much so, that if you let it go to long it could supposedly choke itself.

          Some sativas can do this, what Shanti calls the "Widow" sport is an example, but it's very rare in an indica.

          It was during Nevil's 83/84 collection trips to the US that he aquired, from Sandy W the only G-13 cuttings to ever leave Sandy's garden.

          Nevil returned to Holland and made three crosses with G-13 @ the Seed Bank.

          G-13x Haze (in catolog only 1 yr, discontinued, no extent P1's)
          G-13x Hashplant (discontinued, currently Sensi Seeds: mr nice)
          G-13x Skunk#1 (last and, according to Nevil, the best of the G
          crosses.

          Nev gave Shanti the last of this stock. Shanti, after suffering alarmingly low germ rates initially from the 20 year old seeds, put them though a number of

          breeding cycles and you all lucky bastarts are beta testing the results.)

          Sandy Wienstein passed away in 1987. If you have the '88 edition of
          Mel's Indoor Guide, then you have Mel's wonderfull euligy to his friend.
          (Mel was part of the upstate NY group, which was a sattelitte of Sandy's
          midwest group.

          Mel and Co. were not breeders but the ran beta grows for Sandy's
          Early Girl proj. Just look pic's captioned Durban poison x Afgani in upstate NY
          from any of mel's books.)

          For those who don't have this vintage edition, just turn your copy of
          Mel's Deluxe MJ grow guide to the back cover. The guy in the red pendelton
          shirt and the long hair and shades, Thats Sandy. You owe him more than you
          know


          nom de fluer




          * Prior to becoming Special White Hose Advisor (read: National Drug Czar) Carlton Turner, from 1971 to 1980, was the head of all U.S. government marijuana grown for drugs by reason of his position at the University of Mississippi. The U. of Mississippi Marijuana Research Program is directed by state charter to discover—initiate or sort out the constituents of THC—a “simple” crude cannabis drug that works as a medicine—then synthesize the substances with beneficial medicinal properties to attain their full potential for pharmaceutical companies.

          Comment


            Nom de fleur is the same guy that wrote the (fictional) post about how Sam was busted but got out on bail and returend to the warehouse grow op and saved many plants and seeds from the dumpster out back?

            Some people have nothing better to do than dream up stories about things, sorry to rain on your parade hempy, but nom de fleur was exposed as a writer of pure fiction several years ago, Sam has posted a rebuttal of the Skunk story nom de fleur posted, Neville isn't around to do the same for the G13 one.

            Comment


              Originally Posted by expat
              Hola capt.
              did a TW BX for woodhorse, and a grower reported Red sap from those as well, so if its somehow connected to a sativa line my guess would be the thai?

              Agreed on the Thai prolly carrying this trait...


              Along with lots of strains, landraces and varieties, I've grown hundreds of Thai ganja plants from seed sourced in Thailand myself and have never noticed red sap...as a matter of fact I don't remember that I've never seen this red sap trait in any of the plants I've grown.

              here's a question for Sam.....some plants and weeds have seeds that germinate on time release (iow not all the seeds germinate at the same time) that ensures some of the seeds from that seed mother survive and grow to maturity......many of the equatorial sativas I've grown have seeds that seem to behave in the same way : most germinate after e.g. 7 days, some after e.g. 10 ~ 14 days and a small minority of other seeds germinate later or don't at all (not presoaked, just planted straight in the soil) which is different from the indica seeds which all seem to all germinate within a few days.

              is this because some of these semi wild and wild tropical sativas seeds from the same seed plant are different (thicker seed coats etc) that ensure time release germination or is there another reason (eg barely viable seed takes longer to germinate ..or...)?

              another question......you mentioned you bred Thais 30 years ago that had hermie traits as they do, but bred the hermie trait out successfully (something I didn't have the ability to do myself 15 years ago)..........in your opinion were Thais less hermie prone in the 1960's and 70's compared to the 80's and 90's..(or is it just a matter of working with a large enough number of females and being very good at plant selection and breeding?).

              were the Thais in the '60's and 70's different from the '80's and '90 Thais in your opinion?..for e.g. I read somewhere years ago (sorry, forgot the source) that mentioned Thais from the 60's had large seeds which were mottled in appearance though every seed I've seen on Thai bud in Thailand and from Thais I've grown (almost all were very lightly seeded or had a small lower branch heavily seeded) had small to tiny seeds with no marking, mottling or "tiger striping"

              questions questions!..........many thanks in advance!
              Last edited by Chamba; 03-05-2008, 08:55.

              Comment


                [I]I know I always selected for large calyxs with Original Haze, and it was not so hard as OHaze has big calyxs anyway.

                Yes I introduced California Orange.

                -SamS


                but why did you select for large calyxes?...were these, in general, faster finishing or had a better high..or was it both and you just like large calyxes?

                and please for the sake of record and to stop further lies and hype, please let post a list of the strains you developed or had a hand in developing.
                Last edited by Chamba; 03-05-2008, 09:04.

                Comment


                  Dalaihempy,
                  "heres an intresting post by a guy from CW named nom de fluer.

                  Hi, all
                  I thought I could add some history to help back hempy's point.
                  The G-13 clone was discovered by a guy named Sandy Wienstien. A founding member of Sacred Seeds, Breeder of Early Girl, He also discovered the Bay Area Durban Poison clone (the same clone All dutch DP is based on). During the mid 70's Sandy W and members of the Bay Area (SK#1) group were working in cooperation on some of their afgans."

                  THERE WERE NO FOUNDING MEMBERS OF SACRED SEEDS, JUST ME!

                  And I have never met any Sandy Wienstien, ever.
                  Early Girl was not bred by Sandy Wienstien, and Durban Poison South Arican was cleaned up and developed by me alone, then I took it to Amsterdam. The same with my Hindu Kush and Afghani lines. And I made up using #1, #2, #3, as I had so many imported seed lines I did not name them until I used them to make seeds, instead of just trialing them.

                  "It was during Nevil's 83/84 collection trips to the US that he aquired, from Sandy W the only G-13 cuttings to ever leave Sandy's garden.
                  -nom de fluer"

                  Neville did not travel to the USA until after these dates.

                  There are so many lies and untruths in this post it is a joke, this guy "nom de fluer"
                  is so wrong in his "facts" I feel sorry for him, and anyone that believes his lies.

                  -SamS
                  Last edited by Sam_Skunkman; 04-23-2014, 12:31.

                  Comment


                    Sam,
                    Thank you so much for clearing up many of the false reports...As much as you hate to keep rehashing these subjects...It does help in getting the correct info out there .....
                    The people writing false statements just for the sake of making friends is weak!!NomDefluer is a very sick individual to just make up post out if his ass...
                    That started a bunch of false info spreading all over the web in a short period and it will never be fixed...Folks will be reading that same BS forever and thinking they they know the deal....Sad!

                    As far as the large calyxes go,,,wouldn't they hold more trichs per square cm. with the larger bracts...Less non-psycho-active pistils,seems like the way to go for many reasons...
                    And they damn sure look killer all swollen up ready to burst!!
                    ~Cannabis is the messenger but resin is the message~

                    Kryptonite Seeds are available exclusively at
                    www.seedbay.com
                    and soon to be availible at
                    www.seedboutique.com

                    Comment


                      MORE of SAMS gratifyin history!!

                      Cool Sam good to know these things..............

                      As for the G13,well i have grown hundreds of JLP's
                      cross with the haze and i DID SEE a small but wonderfull
                      plant TOTALLY CHOKED IN RESINS as described above in that post!
                      This thing was only a foot tall but packed a good 2 Z's on it.........
                      Fist like buds glystening from the shine,to bad i didnt clone or re-veg?
                      But i got thousands of seeds to grow out and look again,it was a surprize!!!!
                      Thats the Biggest seeds stock i have right now.........

                      Now who's got O haze........hint!

                      Comment


                        First off, I have to say awesome thread to everyone. A great source of information.
                        Sam you are an invaluable asset to the growing community, for all you have done and continue to do.

                        How worked is your OHaze? It is fairly uniform or are there numerous phenos to be found? What were the citeria you used when performing parental selection for future generations? (Aside from the large calyxes).
                        And if you did not have your GC/MS, what criteria would you use to select the males for breeding?

                        Not sure you will be able to answer this, but the California Orange, how does it relate to the Aerik77 Cali-O cut? Is the AE77 a direct descendent? A "special" pheno of your creation?
                        What genetics did you use in your California Orange? (Apologies if you already answered this)
                        "I desire knowledge by nature" the words of Aristotle, my nature is not to hate you. So I try to put myself in the depths of the other man, peace to my brother man, in search of my place in this world to discover man, Damn, check out the colors man.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Lougrew!
                          Glad ya like the pics folks,got MORE!

                          Well right before my dad died he was looking threw
                          his books as we where gonna move to the mountains..
                          He found this old book,but in it was my old pot leafs!!!!!!!!!!!!

                          To my surprize he had found my FIRST MARIJUANA LEAVES!
                          You know how folks up north gather maple leafs and place them
                          in books to flatten,well i did the same thing with my first MJ plants!
                          THese sativa leaves are from 1974 just for comparisons,must have
                          been MEX and columbians i believe!!!!!!!!
                          My dad was a cool guy and would never throw them out...i miss him.

                          Started growing at 14 years old and im glad i saved these leaves!!














                          1974 man those days where the FRESH days of weed it was still new!
                          Awesome!! thx for sharing
                          A picture is worth a thousand words

                          Comment


                            Neville did not travel to the USA until after these dates.

                            There are so many lies and untruths in this post it is a joke, this guy "nom de fluer"
                            is so wrong in his "facts" I feel sorry for him, and anyone that believes his lies.

                            -SamS


                            Hiya sam i thort to post it but i never realy new what to make of it as i didnt know much about sandy or the others being talket about or do i know much about "nom de fluer".

                            Basicly the story i belive is from shanti wich in short vertion goes clone was taken from a plant in greenhouse no 13 it got its name from G for Goverment clone and 13 from the greenhouse no-13 it was liberated from giveing the name g13.

                            I have lots of posts saved arcived but no point in posting them all.


                            Originally posted by shantibaba
                            Hi guys
                            Did not really miss the post....but was more interested to see what chat you sparked amongst yourself.Since there are a roller coaster of stories going about, re the G13.
                            Whatever the stories are that have entertained the punters till now probably all have a little truth mixed with myth.All with merit.
                            What I know in a nut shell is that the G13 plant was taken from the research facility some time ago and Nev managed to get it as a clone back to NL.There many things were tried without very much consistency, except with the skunk male to the G13.It was the only real crossing that gained results along a semi consistent line.That was quite some years back.Since then many people believe that buying the G13 released crosses and breeds perpetuated the story.However the story was for me all a little out of proportion.It usually is the product of many people dreaming of catching the big fish....
                            Up until 1 year ago I was not a G13 participant.I had seen it years back when it was all new and exciting but it did not do too much for me.No real flavour, strong sure but lacking on many other important sides.I recently learnt that the G13 lost alot of vigour at Sensi a long time back untill they eventually lost the original mother line.Nev gave me the only seed he felt was worth to go on with in this line (over 6 years ago) since he was retired from that world.It had been hanging above a fire place for more than 2 years prior.It was one of the last things that had had no time to look into due to other reasons.Kind of left on the shelf.The things that are being used for G13 combinants are all very removed and probably explains the pot luck kind of plants that turn up.But I have made some selections and with consultations and some old hand advice it looks we are back on track.There are currently 9 females and 7 males that are being combined and gone on with...a bit laborious but the only way when we are left with such a small sample.I will post some photos soon here to show you all what we are up to.Till then all the best Shantibaba



                            I dont know to much about the us ag facility sam but a friend i knew from school
                            worket as a security gard at a Goverment ag facility here The CSIRO and he told us of the plants being grown there they had indicas and diffrent sativas he managed to steel a hand full of a indica line when i found this all out i was offerd the indica seed i sed no as i was more into sativas and asket if he could try and get them type of lines for me insted well a few years later i joined the on line community and relised maybe these indica seeds stolen from this goverment ag facility may of been worth keeping after all tryed to get hold of the guy found out he moved other mate who got seeds from him did grow them out sed it was real good but didnt make seeds.

                            Why would they grow sativas indicas and other lines in an ag facility very od i think what are they testing for that has not all ready been tested in other facilitys only thing i can think of is they were doing work on genetic finger printing of cannabis.

                            Comment


                              I'd like to second the question posed to Sam (you are a fount of wisdom, BTW) on O. Haze male selection. I have been lucky enough to acquire some very nice elite cuts, but would like to "back them up" using a TFD Original Haze male I grew from seed. Should I expect an increase in potency in my OG or MVTF cuts after an OH cross...? Looking forward to working with this strain, regardless. Thanks again Sam.

                              Comment


                                Should I expect an increase in potency in my OG or MVTF cuts after an OH cross

                                how would any one know what the results will be from multiple hybrid crosses?

                                the proof is in the pudding...iow ...the best thing to do is cross them and then smoke test them..that's half the fun!

                                breeders should never expect, guess, anticipate or pre-judge .......... use as many males and females as you have, cross pollenate them all, grow them out then select towards your goal...after 3 or 4 generations you should be closer to what you want.
                                Last edited by Chamba; 03-06-2008, 01:49.

                                Comment

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