The Haze discussion thread

[Dr.Young]

LEDs do not cause any deficiencies thats silly talk Hempster... LED provide nothing different from HPS except double the efficiency of photons per watt, and less abundant IR light which is a positive thing because HPS is basically nothing but a half heat lamp half light essentially. LED is full light.
The ruderalis haze was lost before he made seeds, and he said it was the best hash he ever smoked in the MRN forum.

"One of the males I crossed it with was Ruderalis x NL1 X NL1. I was testing a 25% Ruderalis male on the most difficult plant I'd come across to see what it would do. I used all the seed I had to find the earliest male for the next generation. I grew the females out and because it was so resinous, I made hash out of it. To this day it was the best hash I've ever smoked, and I've been privileged to have smoked the best.
I truly regret not having made a cutting of that plant. I didn't make that mistake with the 6 that followed.
I'm feeling a bit sad now, I think that I'll go and have a smoke.
I'll tell you the rest later."

I said bud, but.... dunno if it still counts cause he said best hash lol, but that speaks volumes and perhaps even more so..

RIP brother Nev.

 

[TheDarkStorm]

I think it did win a cup but he really loved that smoke regretted not having it still.

I miss the old Hawaiian Maui sativa my self.

Some of those sativas turned to beasts in Hawaii....I remember a realy good one that used to come out all gold buds and red stems.....wish some of the good older ones were abit more easier to find

 

[TheDarkStorm]

LEDs do not cause any deficiencies thats silly talk Hempster... LED provide nothing different from HPS except double the efficiency of photons per watt, and less abundant IR light which is a positive thing because HPS is basically nothing but a half heat lamp half light essentially. LED is full light.
The ruderalis haze was lost before he made seeds, and he said it was the best hash he ever smoked in the MRN forum.

"One of the males I crossed it with was Ruderalis x NL1 X NL1. I was testing a 25% Ruderalis male on the most difficult plant I'd come across to see what it would do. I used all the seed I had to find the earliest male for the next generation. I grew the females out and because it was so resinous, I made hash out of it. To this day it was the best hash I've ever smoked, and I've been privileged to have smoked the best.
I truly regret not having made a cutting of that plant. I didn't make that mistake with the 6 that followed.
I'm feeling a bit sad now, I think that I'll go and have a smoke.
I'll tell you the rest later."

I said bud, but.... was only wrong in it being that he said best hash lol

Dry sift...im sure he made the hash from pure crystals

 

[Hammerhead]

LEDs do not cause any deficiencies thats silly talk Hempster... LED provide nothing different from HPS except double the efficiency of photons per watt, and less abundant IR light which is a positive thing because HPS is basically nothing but a half heat lamp half light essentially. LED is full light.
The ruderalis haze was lost before he made seeds, and he said it was the best hash he ever smoked in the MRN forum.

"One of the males I crossed it with was Ruderalis x NL1 X NL1. I was testing a 25% Ruderalis male on the most difficult plant I'd come across to see what it would do. I used all the seed I had to find the earliest male for the next generation. I grew the females out and because it was so resinous, I made hash out of it. To this day it was the best hash I've ever smoked, and I've been privileged to have smoked the best.
I truly regret not having made a cutting of that plant. I didn't make that mistake with the 6 that followed.
I'm feeling a bit sad now, I think that I'll go and have a smoke.
I'll tell you the rest later."

I said bud, but.... dunno if it still counts cause he said best hash lol, but that speaks volumes and perhaps even more so..

RIP brother Nev. I'll make observations, selections, and if it impacts the younger generation a fraction of the way you impacted my life I will die a proud man, and a legend.

Everyone I know using LED had to adjust their feed and temps higher than what they were feeding vs using HID. If you do not adjust there will be deficiencies. LED are much more efficient which causes our plants to use more cal/mag. When I swapped out some HID to LED I noticed this on every plant under LED. In my flower room, I have my LED's in the center with CMH on the outer ends. All the plants in the center needed a cal/mag boost than plants closer to CMH.

 

[Piff_cat]

The study was done in 2012 by hazencamp who became director of bedrocan. The samples were all purchased at coffee shops multiple times multiple places then compared in secondary metabolites. Any outliers were discarded. They tracked cannabinoids secondary cannabinoids sequiterpenes monoterpenes. So whatever the results are its pretty certain the amnesia is the clone only hydro. The bedrocan cut is also known verified although of course it only represents one pheno. So the comparison between these 2 clone only definitely tell 2 different stories. That could be attributed to a deep heterogenous genetic diversity in haze c or be a sign of an different/additional progenitor on the haze side of equation. It would be nice to know if it's haze f1 x haze f1 or (skunk/nl hybrid) x haze male. One interesting note from the paper the bedrocan terpinolene terpene sequiterpenes profile of is very similar to a group of medicinal plants guaiacol extract. Here's the link if anyone wants to read it l

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rc t=j&url=https://bedrocan.com/wp-content/uploads/2012-cannabis-from-cultivar-to-chemovar_hazekamp.pdf&ved= 2ahUKEwi76cTp4tT0AhXsm-AKHSHEAVkQFnoECAYQAQ&usg=A OvVaw3pnSJ_ZFDgtLC_VPnybDx1

The comparisons between amnesia and white widow are also really cool for a haze as non haze hybrid. Amnesia has almost triple the cbg and cbc as white widow. It's also significantly higher in guianene and selinene which are quite rare and suspected of significant entourage effects of the phenolic nature. It's been found in killer a5 for sire
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[TheDarkStorm]

The study was done in 2012 by hazencamp who became director of bedrocan. The samples were all purchased at coffee shops multiple times multiple places then compared in secondary metabolites. Any outliers were discarded. They tracked cannabinoids secondary cannabinoids sequiterpenes monoterpenes. So whatever the results are its pretty certain the amnesia is the clone only hydro. The bedrocan cut is also known verified although of course it only represents one pheno. So the comparison between these 2 clone only definitely tell 2 different stories. That could be attributed to a deep heterogenous genetic diversity in haze c or be a sign of an different/additional progenitor on the haze side of equation. It would be nice to know if it's haze f1 x haze f1 or (skunk/nl hybrid) x haze male. One interesting note from the paper the bedrocan terpinolene terpene sequiterpenes profile of is very similar to a group of medicinal plants guaiacol extract. Here's the link if anyone wants to read it l

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rc t=j&url=https://bedrocan.com/wp-content/uploads/2012-cannabis-from-cultivar-to-chemovar_hazekamp.pdf&ved= 2ahUKEwi76cTp4tT0AhXsm-AKHSHEAVkQFnoECAYQAQ&usg=A OvVaw3pnSJ_ZFDgtLC_VPnybDx1

The comparisons between amnesia and white widow are also really cool for a haze as non haze hybrid. Amnesia has almost triple the cbg and cbc as white widow. It's also significantly higher in guianene and selinene which are quite rare and suspected of significant entourage effects of the phenolic nature. It's been found in killer a5 for sire

nl5hzC1/sk1hzC x nl5sk(shiva) in comparison to nl5hzC1/sk4hzC x skaf........out of curiosity by that system how different would something like this show

 

[@hempy]

Some of those sativas turned to beasts in Hawaii....I remember a realy good one that used to come out all gold buds and red stems.....wish some of the good older ones were abit more easier to find

Lots of Asian genetics came back with servicemen after the Vietnam war back to Hawaii is what i was told.

Saw a 60min doco many years ago about a vet that grew Maui Wowie the plants were 7 meters tall. Ones i grew were beasts to.

 

[Piff_cat]

nl5hzC1/sk1hzC x nl5sk(shiva) in comparison to nl5hzC1/sk4hzC x skaf........out of curiosity by that system how different would something like this show

Everything I've read nev say put alot of importance in linebreeding to the nick ancestor. He thought 5hzc1 was def a nick. If I understand right line breeding to haze c would entail keeping at least 50 percent of pedigree of sire and dam line to tge ancestor being line bred to. So following his belief super silver haze breeding follows that rule while Jack would not. The dam line in jack contains 0 haze. Now there's no absolutes but I've noticed that once that linebreeding balance is created, a wld outcross in the next gen has significant portion of progeny unaffected by wld in f1. Angel heart is a great example. It's nearly a carbon copy of shantis mango haze breeder mom. Amnesia might fall into tgat same category

 

[@hempy]

LEDs do not cause any deficiencies thats silly talk Hempster... LED provide nothing different from HPS except double the efficiency of photons per watt, and less abundant IR light which is a positive thing because HPS is basically nothing but a half heat lamp half light essentially. LED is full light.

Going by what growers that have converted to Leds are seeing they do.

I dont think its the light intensity coming from the lights that is causing it because the sun here will fry an egg in the heat of summer and plants do just fine out doors.

I am no expert but no other indoor grow light set up that i know of causes a plant deficiency's only leads seam to.

 

[Dr.Young]

Im sure someone can convince hempy LED is the way to roll now.. It has better penetration, which i believe you said it doesnt have enough penetration to compete with HID before... I just dont know how to phrase it any better lol... Just trust me Hempy..
The main reason HID sucks is because its bright in the center and dim on the edges.... You can get good reflectors and DE systems that spread a solid 5x5, but its still not as good as LED because you can basically place a strip over every single square foot of a footprint. As far as the spectrum, and anything electrical or plant growth or anything its beyond superior which i dont think you disagree with that part... but because of the spectrum it has better penetration too because of the green light... which is the heart of a good penetration aside from PPFD/raw intensity + and light chips physically placed/surrounding 360 around the plants..

I just want you to experience top shelf is all, I want you to say thanks my sativas are even better now indoors than outdoors... Nothing to do with any malice or vendetta against you or any weird shit... Flatout just wanna help you, and resisting my love doesnt deter me lol

 

[@hempy]

Everything I've read nev say put alot of importance in linebreeding to the nick ancestor. He thought 5hzc1 was def a nick. If I understand right line breeding to haze c would entail keeping at least 50 percent of pedigree of sire and dam line to tge ancestor being line bred to. So following his belief super silver haze breeding follows that rule while Jack would not. The dam line in jack contains 0 haze. Now there's no absolutes but I've noticed that once that linebreeding balance is created, a wld outcross in the next gen has significant portion of progeny unaffected by wld in f1. Angel heart is a great example. It's nearly a carbon copy of shantis mango haze breeder mom. Amnesia might fall into tgat same category

Nevil

Breeder

Hz C male produced 5Hz1 which won a Cup or 2, this was a daughter of NL5 which won a cup. 5Hz1 when crossed with Sk1x HzC produced Silver Haze which won a Cup. Ben renamed it Jack Herrer. Somebody else renamed it Diesel. 5HzC X Sk1Hz C was not as good as 5Hz1. Mango Haze (5Hz122)is a full sister to 5Hz1 and these two were the best out of tens of thousands.
Haze A produced 5HzA2 (5A2) and was featured on the cover of the 1990 catalogue and is the mother of Nevil's Haze, the father being HzC.
If you are smoking any good Haze, I'll bet you London to a brick that it comes from Haze A or Hz C or both!

This is from Nevil's 1990 Catalogue.

 

[Hammerhead]

LED's work great for most hybrids. You will need to adjust temps and feed for sure. I need to see more Haze/Sat grown under LED. The 4 plants I ran seem to take a lot longer to flower. I do have 1 THH x P41 in flower. I'll see how she does.. I have 1 Hammers Kush x THH seedling up, coming soon.

 

[Piff_cat]

This is from Nevil's 1990 Catalogue.

That's pretty cool I've never seen the 90 catalog before. You can see why nl5 haze is a true f1 but jack is not since the mother is a polyhybrid. Nl5 haze is much more haze dominant. If you make good selections at f2 it's def possible to get some nice ancestor throwbacks. Tropical seeds found extreme haze mom in thisvway.

do you have screenshots of the whole Catalogue hempy

 

[BobChronic6505]

Can someone recommend me some haze seeds? Who has the best haze???

 

[Budz Lightyear]

Can someone recommend me some haze seeds? Who has the best haze???

I cant say who has the best, but I'd personally look at Super Sativa Seed Club, Super strains, Connoisseur Genetics. Authentic Mr.Foxtail, and maybe Old School genetics... ?

Theres probably loads of people who may disagree or have other suggestions, which is cool with me as I also am a lover of haze so I'm open to all reccomendations.

 

[Budz Lightyear]

Im sure someone can convince hempy LED is the way to roll now.. It has better penetration, which i believe you said it doesnt have enough penetration to compete with HID before... /QUOTE]

It doesnt have better penetration. It has better coverage. But coverage can be solved with something as simple as a light mover rail. Current LED configurations are designed for multi tier verticle growing. Small plants, high plant numbers, in racks, stacked vertically. Also, efficiency numbers are irrelevant if what you're trying to maximise is the space and time. A board of all far reds would be far more efficient than a 3200k board in terms of ppfd but it wouldnt yield as much. Also, LED' are still in the R&D phase - anything you buy today will be superceeded and obsolete within 6 - 12 months guaranteed. I've said it for a long time, LED will need to eventually go to a single point, high intensity light source to match up and exceed HPS. Take a look at the Hortibloom Solux models (650w & 800w I believe). This is heading in the right direction for LED. These are somthing I would trial. But right now I wouldnt be investing until the tech has stopped evolving so fast.
But thats just my opinion. I grow with de CMH so wtf do I know

 

[sallyforthDeleted member 75382]

Yes I agree that leds are a pain in the arse. I’ve had good grows with them but from all my experience I have settled on CMH as it’s the best spectrum and the plants love it in comparison so I’m sticking with cmh for the foreseeable.

 

[maryjaneismyfre]

Good haze seeds, or hybrids mainly, that I know of....Karma, Ace, OJD/connoisseur genetics, Chimera, and Tom Hill repros and other repros available on the 'bay. Also read good things about piff coast farms? And then there is always Mr Nice and also Old School Genetics might have, the last I've grown a few of their stuff out and its all true to form and description. Also blue vienna skunk claims to have some old school haze in his seeds, and I've not seen anyone disprove his other wild old school claims yet so also worth a look.

 

[maryjaneismyfre]

LED does not have the penetration of 1000w DE HPS, a single 1000W light source will have more penetration than a bank of however many watts diodes purely down to the inverse square law, but the diodes will have better coverage. The latest square sine wave ballast 1000w DEs with a top quality bulb are as or more efficient than most LED's except for the latest latest consumer generation of chips in terms of usable light given out per watt energy. Though the light is emitted out at 360 degree around the bulb as opposed to a 120 degree plane down from the LED chip, that is the only real world increase in efficiency of LED over latest greatest HPS aside from better spread, though i treat the canopy as a 3 dimensional block rather than a plane and the HPS gives me a deeper and bigger volume block so negating the other LED efficiencies. The LED's supposedly run cooler or rather as people in general run at lower PPFD than they can, they substitute less LED for x amount of HPS to maintain the same low PPFD as before and therefore there is less wattage being put into the system and less heat as a result, but if one is smart one can use the heat to ones advantage and workaround it with air exchange and if air exchange is dialed then co2 injection almost becomes unnecessary...The cooler temps result in lower transpiration, which means plants drink less than before and therefore want a more concentrated feed solution, hence higher EC, or else deficiencies will appear and that is why they do, because the plant wants less water relative to the same feed.. The cause is not the light but the way the change in heat produced by the light source changes the environment which changes the plants requirements.. LED is the future but I agree it is still in testing mode after all these years..

Where I see advantage in LED these days is to use the same wattage as HPS before and give therefore more light in the same space as before for the same power consumption and same heat generation (and recipe or EC not have to be changed), and then dial in HAF flow and air exchange and watch those buds become those grenades of funk!!!! You can achieve more G/w in same space with LED but if one does not drop the wattage of light used then one achieves more G in same space rather than same with less light..But at the end of the day the improvement in effiencieny in my opinion is just due to the light being sent out at a 120 degree angle towards your plants and not in a 360 degree angle with 180 degrees of that having to be reflected back to your plants..Then again with vega aluminium and the plants loving diffused light, is that a bad thing? At the end of the day there is no replacement for displacement..I am a founder of a popular nutrient line and have consulted with many customers who have changed to LED, as well I consult with many licences who are on our feed, and most the time when the plants yellow or display deficiencies under LED after switch to, where they were looking awesome before under HPS, almost everytime telling the customer to increase total feed strength 20-33% will solve the issue quickly...its all due to transpiration rate, air temps and water vs feed demands..

 

[Budz Lightyear]

LED does not have the penetration of 1000w DE HPS, a single 1000W light source will have more penetration than a bank of however many watts diodes demands..

Agreed In short, current LED configurations penetrate about 2ft into the canopy. You can grow 6ft plants but you'll still have only 2ft colas on the top.. That would be a waste of space - better to grow 2ft plants with 2ft colas. But that means less yield on the footprint. So High numbers, multi tier to maximise yield. (Two tiers of 2ft colas equals one tier of 4ft colas, give or take.) If you want big long 4ft colas you need penetration of the HPS.
LED chips like the 900w plus chips from Yuji Intl would offer comparable penetration, if someone can engineer a way to keep it cool enough to be a viable option for long run times.