The Haze discussion thread

[Dr. Purpur]

Ill just mark this thread to read later

 

[TheDarkStorm]

Ill just mark this thread to read later

I was wondering wer you wer doc good to see you drop by

 

[TheDarkStorm]

Not sure what post you refer to bout C5

This is the rest of the post




1luvbigherb

The nl5haze bit big herb well from wat I remember was the haze the guys wer getting from Florida an taking to nyc..I think that started in 1991 maybe 92...an I belive they lost that in 99 not sure wat they wer working with before this..I cant cant guarantee this as I wernt personally ther but im sure thats wat ther story was.

 

[Zomboy]

Great reading. Thank you for sharing

 

[@hempy]

Dj9

It’s very interesting to hear your experiences and side of the story .
You seem to remember some very specific details

To your recollection it was only 100 or Soo Original Haze seeds Nevil
Acquired from Sams ?
Do you Recall the bag or bags of seeds and if Soo the dates on the bags ?

If you look here at Karmas thread he has the official A5

Can you tell us if any other HzA hybrid clones survive aside from A5 and AG13 ?


Can you confirm both HzA n HzC Males are still alive ?

1luvbigherb

With all of the crap hanging over my head, there was only one man with the integrity and talent that I trust to "play the fucking music right" and that's our friend Shantibaba.
I gave him the "bank", knowing that he'd look after you. It seems he's done a fine job! I've given advice on fruitful avenues to pursue, but he has been keeping the Olympic torch alight.
But there is a new wind blowing and the timing is right. For a generation, bread has been cast upon the waters and the fish have been getting fat and with the talent out there, it's time to drag the net. People are joining hands and we are all pulling together, the way it should be. To pinch a freemason phase, I feel the dawning of a "New Dawn" and the sun will shine as never before! ( I'm relying on Hempy for the appropriate picture).
N.


How do we know Karmas has the official A5 and the other clones are Nevs ? .

We know Nev gave his plant library only to shanti.




No one really knows Kashrocs, but my best bet is that the haze effect comes from a Buddha Thai. It's similar to the Thai I remember from the '70s.
N.


Originally Posted by Nevil
Well Bigherb, I wouldn't swear on a kilo of Haze Hash, that he told me that he grew them himself.
I seem to remember one batch had a number of years mixed together something like '66,'67,'68. A prominent ancestor was a thing called "Burning Bush". If Sam didn't grow burning bush then the person that did will be able to tell us more.
Everything useful was from before 1970. The one plant that came up from '70 batch, Omega, was at best 25% haze and didn't make the grade.
N.


Originally Posted by R.C.Clarke
'Original Haze, is a pure-breeding stabilized IBL developed from a pure C. sativa polyhybrid created from predominantly Mexican and Colombian varieties along with some South Indian and Thais varieties. 'Original Haze' started as a magical mix of the most exotic C. sativa varieties available in California in the early 1970s. Some of the early types were lost but through diligent selection and inbreeding Cultivator's Choice preserved the essence of the variety in their 'Original Haze'(...)
in: Indoor Marijuana Horticulture, J.Cervantes, 1993 p.360-361




bigherb
the burning bush was an ancestor of the given haze stock and is a thai dom,exact quote from SAMS
Quote:
Burning Bush was an Original Haze with a strong Thai influence

 

[mexcurandero420]

@dj9

Thnx for the info about Friesland indica, not real topic related, but i believe Nevil was also part of the sssc crew if i'm correct, that's why i asked.

Was the Purple Haze sold in the shops in the early 90s from Nevil originating?
It had that strong incense nag champa aroma never found again.

 

[RoyalFlush]

How do we know Karmas has the official A5 and the other clones are Nevs ? .

We know Nev gave his plant library only to shanti.

Didn't you already have this discussion with Karma in the C5 thread?

@hempy A lot of Hazes sold in J.s shop where grown from the cuts made by me in my house. Moved by A. to F. in Breda and spread to growers from there. These cuts been in the group since end 80.s and early 90.s

Myself didnt become part till end 90.s

The A5haze cut was almost lost by all, it came down to 1 plant at my house that was shared back in the group, i gave it back to Sammy and A.


Why i didnt make seeds with these before is because i was asked not to at that time, now i have been given permision by others in the group. Its time to get it out.

I got nothing to prove @hempy , the info given with Leters is anouf that if you need to verify you can.

J knows who F is very well, everybody in this story does. These cuts are just that and nothing else.
Without F non of these cuts would be here today.

Maybe DJ9 could give his input about it?
This is the A5haze plant Hempy has doubts about - https://www.instagram.com/p/Bqut1G1hlr-/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet





.

 

[Nexus7]

Burning Bush was an Original Haze with a strong Thai influence

This is the problem with Sams testimony. He changes his story too often. He's said lately that O.Haze was a hybrid of Colombian lines only.

My best guess based on that old seed ad and armchair detective work lol

NYE Haze = Colombian Gold x Colombian Red
Original Haze#1 = Mexican x NYE Haze
Original Haze#2 = Kerala x Original Haze #1
Original Haze#3 = Thai x Original Haze #2

So Nevil would have got something similar to NYE Haze which is Colombian dominant with a bit of Thai on account of Colombian Gold having Thai in it. OldTimers Haze would be very similar to NYE Haze and possibly also Nevils '69 Haze stock. Sam would got the last version of Original Haze#3 and is what was likely sold at Seedsman.

Btw I think the '69 date is way off. OldTimers haze is dated around 1980 according to the guy who bred the Gold Colombian parent.

Peace,

N7

 

[RoyalFlush]

This is the problem with Sams testimony. He changes his story too often. He's said lately that O.Haze was a hybrid of Colombian lines only.

My best guess based on that old seed ad and armchair detective work lol

NYE Haze = Colombian Gold x Colombian Red
Original Haze#1 = Mexican x NYE Haze
Original Haze#2 = Kerala x Original Haze #1
Original Haze#3 = Thai x Original Haze #2

So Nevil would have got something similar to NYE Haze which is Colombian dominant with a bit of Thai on account of Colombian Gold having Thai in it. OldTimers Haze would be very similar to NYE Haze and possibly also Nevils '69 Haze stock. Sam would got the last version of Original Haze#3 and is what was likely sold at Seedsman.

Btw I think the '69 date is way off. OldTimers haze is dated around 1980 according to the guy who bred the Gold Colombian parent.

Peace,

N7

Detective,
do you know what's the back story of OTH?

 

[@hempy]

Didn't you already have this argument with Karma in the C5 thread?


I'm not trying to throw gas in the fire.

Maybe DJ9 could give his input about it?
This is the A5haze plant Hempy has doubts about - https://www.instagram.com/p/Bqut1G1hlr-/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet



.

Hi Royal there was no argument mate unless some one can verify the clones as the real deal then how can we know it as fact.Shanti would know as did Nev and Dj9 dose also also.

Hey there...as far as I know the A is still alive.
And yes I was around the castle many times during bulk deals but never met
any Dominicans . But I wasn't there every day of course. I lived 20 minutes up the road when I moved there, but stayed at the castle on my extended visits before that.
Nevil had about 100 Haze seeds from Sam. He asked for the oldest ones and bought the whole bag. He tried to start about a dozen and none started. So he threw them all in [yes threw] . 6 germinated ...1 died right away. A and C are famous. B was a female which to me had the classic Cali taste... I spent some time in Happy Camp Cal. in 82 and had tasted this there. But Nevil didn't care for it cause it flowered too quick and wasn't very Hazy . D was rope and E flowered forever. Nevil had pollinated it 3 times with various males, and pulled seeds off and finally cut it, much to his dismay later. It ended up being some very powerful Haze. I have recently heard and seen a pic of the A and C male in Cali but who can tell from a knarly little pic. I grew 100s of A5s and have never yet seen a pic on line that resembled it. It was a big classic Sat with small end of your finger sized fluffy buds and tasted like spice, chicken soup, slight menthol ...much less pine than the C crosses. The A you could smoke forever, but the C, although it was much more intense, a person built a tolerance fairly quickly. I grew 1000s of C5s. I had to give away for free to Coffeeshop owners in the beginning cause no one wanted it. Everyone was used to that crappy 'skunk'. By the way I would like to ask the whole community if anyone knows what SK#1 was called before it left Cali. It couldn't have been Skunk since, it wasn't. I met Sam at the first Cannabis cup at a Restaurant in Rotterdam . This event was sponsored and set up by Ben. Sam was there with a beautiful sweet smelling SK1. bud. That was my first exposure to SK1. Having come from Canada and lived in Cali and Oregon Skunk was a wide leafed heavy Indica you could smell for a mile. Nothing sweet about it . It was great weed but nothing to do with Skunk. Its just a theory so don't git yer panties in a knot but I smoked Hawaiian in the early 80s that was the same profile. I believe its an old Hawaiian actually but that's for another time.
And thanks again for welcoming me to everyone. D

Not had an arguments with Karma at all Royal my point was to my understanding only shanti had the cut.

 

[RoyalFlush]

Hi Royal there was no argument mate unless some one can verify the clones as the real deal then how can we know it as fact.Shanti would know as did Nev and Dj9 dose also also.






Not had an arguments with Karma at all Royal my point was to my understanding only shanti had the cut.

Sorry @hempy I don't know what the hell I was thinking using that word. I changed it to something more appropriate *Discussion.

 

[Nexus7]

Detective,
do you know what's the back story of OTH?

Story goes a world famous US musician comissioned his friend to travel to Santa Marta, Colombia to find Colombian Gold seeds in 1979/80 as they could no longer get it back home.

The guy found said seeds and took them back to Santa Cruz, Ca. and bred with them there.

That exact same Gold Colombian line went on to parent OTH according to genetic testing on phylos database.

Not sure exactly how they came into OldTimers hands from there but please share the story if you do.

I asked the guy who went to Colombia in '79/80 to come here and share his story but he was not interested. He had no knowledge of the Haze Bros. or Original Haze it was just called Santa Cruz Haze according to him.

Peace,

N7

 

[Morphote]

Hi Royal there was no argument mate unless some one can verify the clones as the real deal then how can we know it as fact.Shanti would know as did Nev and Dj9 dose also also.

Not had an arguments with Karma at all Royal my point was to my understanding only shanti had the cut.

Wouldn’t be the first time he peddled an unverified cut. See also: Shoreline. Bet you thought I forgot, Karma.

M.

 

[ChicagoG]

PIff,Church..... is NL5 x Haze from the seed bank.
Hunted and grown by P. A.
He grew it in Illinios,FL and NY,He was half Cuban.
His was biggest grower at that time there.
Always was sold in jars. Buds were all calyx.

 

[JohnnyChicago]

Hi Royal there was no argument mate unless some one can verify the clones as the real deal then how can we know it as fact.Shanti would know as did Nev and Dj9 dose also also.

Hey Hempy, if you ask me, that A5 sold in Southern NL since the 90s, is/was the most potent and most incensey weed a Coffeeshop has ever seen.

So if it is a fake, then it is a very good one. Good enough to be kept 25 years (that I know) or longer and good enough to get legend for people who only buy Coffeeshop weed and never have heard in their life of of Neville or of HazeA, never grown a plant etc.

That A5 has always been the most expensive weed on the menus and had zero bag appeal compared to everything else, except import weed. Was much better than any Neville's Haze cup winners I did try at the time. And luckily some of the guys who were working for or in the Coffeeshop(s) of that southern area seem to have managed to save that A5, that has gotten legend for CS customers.


Is it a coincidence that the same people do also hold the C5, HPH ... nowadays and that these were sold at the same shop for decades?

What we can discuss is if that Coffeeshop A5 of the 90s was Neville's cut or not. But it is evident that if someone holds the legendary A5 that was sold in very rare CS's then those who were providing these Coffeeshops with A5.

 

[Nexus7]

PIff,Church..... is NL5 x Haze from the seed bank.
Hunted and grown by P. A.
He grew it in Illinios,FL and NY,He was half Cuban.
His was biggest grower at that time there.
Always was sold in jars. Buds were all calyx.

An Ivan.F submitted NYC Dominican Piff Haze to the phylos DNA database. It's clearly related to all the Nevil NL5xHaze work (possibly Haze C) but hard to say exactly what it was.

Any ideas if he's a legit source?

N7

 

[GoatCheese]

This is the problem with Sams testimony. He changes his story too often. He's said lately that O.Haze was a hybrid of Colombian lines only.

My best guess based on that old seed ad and armchair detective work lol

NYE Haze = Colombian Gold x Colombian Red
Original Haze#1 = Mexican x NYE Haze
Original Haze#2 = Kerala x Original Haze #1
Original Haze#3 = Thai x Original Haze #2

So Nevil would have got something similar to NYE Haze which is Colombian dominant with a bit of Thai on account of Colombian Gold having Thai in it. OldTimers Haze would be very similar to NYE Haze and possibly also Nevils '69 Haze stock. Sam would got the last version of Original Haze#3 and is what was likely sold at Seedsman.

Btw I think the '69 date is way off. OldTimers haze is dated around 1980 according to the guy who bred the Gold Colombian parent.

Peace,

N7

What do you mean "lately"?
Here's post from Sam from almost 6 years ago where hw states the original haze was different Columbians.
Can anybody find a quote that is even older than this?


So, it's not fair to imply he just changed the story last year or few days ago or what ever.

I gave seeds to both the Original Haze growers in 1972 and also later, One used Thai and S Indian with his Haze in the very early 70's. The other grew the Thai but decided it was not as good as Haze and did not use it. The very first Original Haze was a crop of both green, lime green, purple, and other colors, all from Columbian, after that I am not sure and anyone that says they are, is just fooling themselves. One of the Haze growers RL told me a different story then the Original Haze guy that did it first up in the SC mountains and then in the next few years moved down to right by my house, less then a block away, the other Haze grower RL, who put out the OH poster lived a block the other side of my house. I had a friend "J" that used to help the SC mountain Haze grower, he was also a good friend of RCC, he told me all about the early Original Haze I never saw, as I got back to SC in early 1972. They both told me different stories, I did not care so much it was the Cannabis I was interested in.
Sacred Seeds never tried to stablize or improve the Original Haze, our only goal was to save as many of the Original Haze genes as I could so I used as many Original Haze females and males as I could. I think I could create an all Original Haze improved line but I would need to grow thousands and thousands of plants to find a few keeper females, the males would require to be transformed into females to be screened as keepers, and/or by progeney trials that would be best. I would have done it already except that Original Haze is a lousey Dry Sift Hash maker and I hate to use so much space to do the work right. If I don't someone will....
I really do not like Original Haze hybrids that use an WLD Indica to make powerful Hazes, they are strong but often lack the pure Sativa high the I prefer. It is easy though.
If done right with just haze taste and effects, and I can't tell it is a hybrid and it is strong as the Haze was, I would like it I bet. Even the Purple Haze from back in the 70's was not really my choice, they did seem a bit stronger then the greens, limes, and blues, but they also had a more narcotic effect to me. They were the prettiest not the best, to me.
-SamS

 

[GoatCheese]

The seeds Sam gave/sold to Nevil were re-pro seeds made by Sam and he states he didn't give Nevil any original seeds from the Haze Bros.
I don't know where this was originally posted by Sam, maybe here on icmag, but i found it on Mrnice forums


After Nevil's pasing, Sam weighs in
https://www.mrnice.nl/forum/4-talk-shantibaba-mrnice/16757-after-nevils-pasing-sam-weighs.html

[FONT=&quot]I just read all the posts from my last post #1945 to #2376.The seeds I sold to Nevil were all made by me mostly from Holland work.
I never sold any I collected from Haze I obtained from the Haze Bros. I sold my work.
J & G are the same guy. Almost all my OHaze seeds were from him.
I never sold any OHaze X S Indian Kerala or Thai as OHaze, I always called them OHaze X whatever.
Burning Bush was 100% pure OHaze I grew it in Calif and named it, RCC also smoked it with me, and loved it. That and another OHaze I called Cream De La Cream and another I called Mr Greasy even though it was a girl, it had very very streched laddery buds that even when dry and placed in a zip bag greased up the bag unbelievably, it was also hard to roll and keep a joint lit.
Nevil did not have OHaze seeds from before the 70's 80"s as he got his OHaze from me and I only sold him seeds I had made, all 100% OHaze, but not from the 60's or early 70's as I did not start making OHaze seeds until the mid 70's and in large amounts in the 80's in Holland. I think I sold him seeds I made in Holland after 85'.

I will try and answer a few questions if I know the answers, but will ignore any questions I have answered before. Dont ask me about others Haze as I was not the breeder you need to ask the breeder.

The reason that OHaze was seldom found in Coffee shops in Amsterdam is because commercial growers wanted herb with a short flowering period, why would they grow a OHaze that took 16-24 weeks and did not yield as much as a 7-8 week plant?
That and I was a seed producer not a commercial grower if I was I would have worked up an OHaze pure, that was better then NH at least to me.
I get that not all liked OHaze X Skunk or Thai/OHazeXSkunk but I did and many others I know also did.
I also have yet to find any Cannabis that had a more Cerebral, Clear, Up, Psychdelic high with no celing that got you higher every time you took a toke. Nevils did not, for me anyway.
People have many different preferences I also have mine. RCC agrees with me if that matters. I did not see OHaze until the very early 70's I did see both G's and RL's my wife manicured for G and he was the first OHaze Bro, we were close back in the day, and his was the best. Shame he quite growing OHaze but it was so much easier to get my Skunk #1 seeds for his grows, this was before people maintained clones, and his OHaze was already suffering from inbreeding depression, I did not try and improve my OHaze seed lines I tried to preserve all the genes and only sold them with the advice to use them for breeding not commercial growing, to use for commercial growing you need to grow thousands and select the best 10 clones to reproduce for product, few people wanted to do that.
I sold Nevil seeds for $1 a pop for any of my varieties.
I sold by the kilo for €5,000 there are 50,000 - 75,000 for small seeds like OHaze.
I still have a KG of OHaze seeds made a decade ago they are not for sale they are for a OHaze project I am trying to arrange outdoors in the ground at a latitude of 18 just to find and clone the best 10-20 for production where legal.
I have zero problems to keep well made seeds alive stored under refridgerated 4c for 25 years so they are still germainating in the high 90's if and when I do this I will post photos of the 10-20 as well as their Cannabinoid and terpene profiles.
These are slightly over 75 per gram so 75,000 seeds and normally I get 70% females with OHaze so I will have lots to select the 10-20 keepers from, I expect about 50,000 females if started carefully. I am retired from selling seeds, but I will allow others to do what they want with my work, they will pay me for the work, and it is not work as I want to do it even retired.

FYI the OHaze grown by the Haze Bros were not all equal in quality, maybe 10% were fantastic, 50% good or great, and maybe 10% not as good but most would still think it was great. Each year after 1970 the quality and yields and vigor declined a bit. By 1980 I did not know any large OHaze growers, for the reasons I have stated.

I have told the truth, I have zero to gain by altering the truth, I am retired for several years now. I have had a great life, few complaints, I would like to put out a dependable pure OHaze seed line or two for my self and others, even if I do not sell them but let others do so. Selling is work, I do not need the $ and I will only do what I love today. Breeding OHaze is not work for me it is fun, and I think I can do it better then anyone else just because of my experience and history.

FYI I have all but given up on Phylos, they have other goals then my interest in Cannabis Evolution and Relationships, but FYI I only sent them extracted DNA no living materials they could steal, I also sent them many of my varieties DNA, focused on Landraces to help explore my interest in Evolution and Relationships. I am glad I tried, nothing ventured nothing gained.....

-SamS[/FONT]

Peace

 

[Nexus7]

^^^
To paraphrase

Sam says O.Haze is pure Colombian
Sam says Burning bush is pure O.Haze
Sam says Burning bush is Thai dominant (see hempy post)

See the contradiction there?

N7

 

[CodyPomeray]

We will figure out what happened on 9/11 and with JFK before we know the exact story here. Thrilling stuff to read, appreciate the fuck out of all of you for the years you spent working as hard as you did.