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    Originally posted by Donald Mallard View Post

    yes i thought he would say that goatcheese ,
    its not about the sex of the plant , its about the quality of it and its ability to pass on desired traits ,
    not whether u use a male haze or a female , it makes very little if any difference
    its about the individual plants , not their sex ...
    ..and all you’d have to do to see that, is to look into the countless thousands of hybrid seeds that have been on the market for the past decades = you can clearly see traits and phenos from both male and female sides in these many hybrids.
    If there is a Blueberry x NL as an example, people will find traits/phenos from both parents; looks, effect and aroma.

    Speaking of Blueberry, i wonder how DJ Short gathered that it’s the female that shapes the type of the smell in crossers, while it’s the male who plays a part on how strong the smell is?? Looking at the thousands of hybrids on the market and the stuff i have grown myself, i see aroma traits (and other traits) from males and females contributing just as equally. ..ofcourse some plants are more dominant than others but there are dominant males and dominant females.

    9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB
    ****

    Comment


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      Originally posted by bigherb View Post


      Nevil never offered Seeds using a Haze female commercially that was a typo Haze x NL1 . His seed bank offering was NL1HzC

      He did cross the first haze female to ruderalis x NL1 x NL1 . But it was not sold commercially
      I wrote you and show you pictures before few sites for this missinformations you provade by xy person behind fake Nevile account on mr nice forums.

      1988 was Haze female used with NL1 as polen donor...
      Next year it was typo in catalogue Haze x NL5 this was typo....89
      In 1990 no more typo it was NL5 x Haze......

      Please dont spread missinforamtions based on fake acc from mr nice forum...thx.
      Last edited by CANNATORIUM; 10-12-2021, 13:07.

      Comment


        Hempy does have a point.....but its a bit more complex than made out....when bx-ing using certain tech upto 4 or 5 times it becomes all about the male....so what hempy is saying may have something to it.... im not so sure about haze males...depending on how it was made.....nevil himself ended up using nevils haze#21 which was a female after much testing despite initially planning to use a male.....an im sure sam has said something about using mostly female hazes too

        Comment


          Originally posted by CANNATORIUM View Post
          Click image for larger version

Name:	Haze-577x400.jpg
Views:	346
Size:	69.6 KB
ID:	17964688 1990Click image for larger version Name:	7507SB88-5-copy.jpg Views:	0 Size:	137.8 KB ID:	179646821988
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          I wrote you and show you pictures before few sites for this missinformations you provade by xy person behind fake Nevile account on mr nice forums.

          1988 was Haze female used with NL1 as polen donor...
          Next year it was typo in catalogue Haze x NL5 this was typo....89
          In 1990 no more typo it was NL5 x Haze......

          Please dont spread missinforamtions based on fake acc from mr nice forum...thx.
          Were the pictures they were putting up fake too....did you actually ever see nevil.....do you know were his seed collection is....or the persons who currently hold it.......there are about 10 people on this site who were speaking and meeting with nevil at the time....

          Comment


            Originally posted by Donald Mallard View Post

            yes i thought he would say that goatcheese ,
            its not about the sex of the plant , its about the quality of it and its ability to pass on desired traits ,
            not whether u use a male haze or a female , it makes very little if any difference
            its about the individual plants , not their sex ...
            I agree, Why would anyone use a plant with no observable quality traits. I don't care if it's male/female I won't use it if I see nothing.

            #hammerhead_genetics on IG
            Hammers Perpetual showroom

            Comment


              This was my original comment.

              Originally posted by @hempy View Post
              The male carries the balk of the ancestral information.
              I then posted key points to make it assayer .

              Key Point 1
              The Father passes on the Y chromosome without recombination, the DNA on that chromosome provides a genetic history of a males paternal ancestral line.
              Key Point 2

              Since males receive an X only from their mothers, a male’s father cannot be an X ancestor. Consequently, a male’s father and all of his ancestors are excluded from the X genealogy (Figure 1). Therefore, females are overrepresented in the X genealogy, and as we go back in one’s genealogy, the fraction of individuals who are possible X ancestors shrinks. This property means that genetic relationships differ on the X compared to the autosomes, a fact that changes the calculation of kinship coefficients on the X (Pinto et al. 2011, 2012) and also has interesting implications for kin-selection models involving the X chromosome (Rice et al. 2008; Fox et al. 2009).
              Key Point 3
              Unfortunately, the X chromosome is short, such that the chance of any signal of recent ancestry on the X decays rather quickly.
              So how is this information telling any one to select for good or poor quality's ?.

              Look up line breeding do a little research and then you will understand the importance ancestral information.
              Team-Haze

              Comment



                Line Breeding

                “What is the purpose of line-breeding? As soon as an ancestor is represented more than once in the pedigree of a horse, there is a higher chance that the autosomal chromosomes carry a higher percentage of DNA of the relevant ancestor. The object of line-breeding is twofold. One is to reinforce the same DNA of an ancestor in the new product, which increases the chances that the genes on the DNA will be expressed. The other is to unite as many different parts of the DNA of the relevant ancestor as possible. A sire and a dam each pass on fifty percent of their autosomal chromosomes to their product. It is therefore theoretically possible that an ancestor passes on two different halves of his autosomal chromosomes to two different offspring. When you unite these two different offspring, parts of the different halves of the DNA are united in the new product. This is important because the total of the DNA forms the basis for the various qualities of the relevant ancestor. The more different parts of this DNA are united in the new product, the higher the chances that it will have the same combination of qualities as the relevant ancestor.”
                Team-Haze

                Comment


                  Originally posted by CANNATORIUM View Post
                  Click image for larger version

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ID:	17964688 1990Click image for larger version Name:	7507SB88-5-copy.jpg Views:	0 Size:	137.8 KB ID:	179646821988
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                  I wrote you and show you pictures before few sites for this missinformations you provade by xy person behind fake Nevile account on mr nice forums.

                  1988 was Haze female used with NL1 as polen donor...
                  Next year it was typo in catalogue Haze x NL5 this was typo....89
                  In 1990 no more typo it was NL5 x Haze......

                  Please dont spread missinforamtions based on fake acc from mr nice forum...thx.
                  It doesn’t say if the Haze was the female in the HazeNL1 hybrid in that strain description you posted. You just want to believe that's what it means.

                  Nevil actually had the habit of listing the male FIRST and female SECOND sometimes, while usually female is listed FIRST and male SECOND.
                  Here’s a post from Nevil where he lists a G13 hybrid as NL1 x G13 and the Hashplant x NL1 as NL1HP when we know both the G13 and HP cuttings were females.

                  So you finding a strain description where Haze is listed FIRST it doesn’t really proof it was a female Haze plant regardless if it was listed FIRST.

                  ...but this was the “fake” Nevil posting at MNS forums, right.

                  Originally posted by Nevil
                  When I first got the NL varieties, there were 8 types, 1-8.
                  They came with descriptions, which I published in my catalogue. These descriptions may not correlate with what later developed. The original intention was to purchase seeds from the US NL growers. It didn't work out and supply dried up. I kept the lines separate and inbred them. NL1 and NL2 stabilised into distinct types and NL5 only produced one unique individual.
                  NL1 was a full blood Afghan indica. One thick main stem, dark green leaves, modest yield with nuggety buds, a little coarse with good resin production, which when ripe went golden. The high was narcotic. The seeds ranged from tiny to massive. I used to love the big ones. Large fat heavily and darkly mottled seeds. Selecting for these seeds made this Afghan even coarser. It was fun to show people these seeds.
                  The best line of NL1 actually came from the smaller seeded types, better high and bud structure.
                  There weren't many pure indica lines around in those days. Big Bud, Hash Plant and G13 were pure indicas in my estimation, but were cuttings. NL1 was the only good pure Afghani male line I had.( there was Sams Afghani#1, but that was toxic in a bad way) The NL2 was a Kush.
                  I put the NL1 out there as a pure strain. I wasn't popular. People would tell me, "give me the pure strains", but if it cost them 10% of their yield they would complain, well try 50%.
                  The pure indica hybrids were more popular. NL1 x HP and NL1 x G13 were the best. At least people could use the word pure (very popular). But they were good!

                  I expect that a lot of people holding what they believe to be pure indicas today, would find, if the truth be known, that the sire line traces back to NL1.
                  N.
                  https://mrnice.nl/forum/threads/ques...e-6#post-63816

                  9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB
                  ****

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by CANNATORIUM View Post
                    Click image for larger version

Name:	Haze-577x400.jpg
Views:	346
Size:	69.6 KB
ID:	17964688 1990Click image for larger version Name:	7507SB88-5-copy.jpg Views:	0 Size:	137.8 KB ID:	179646821988
                    1989 Click image for larger version Name:	picture.jpg Views:	0 Size:	75.7 KB ID:	17964683

                    I wrote you and show you pictures before few sites for this missinformations you provade by xy person behind fake Nevile account on mr nice forums.

                    1988 was Haze female used with NL1 as polen donor...
                    Next year it was typo in catalogue Haze x NL5 this was typo....89
                    In 1990 no more typo it was NL5 x Haze......

                    Please dont spread missinforamtions based on fake acc from mr nice forum...thx.
                    Mis information is the reason I wrote my article years ago.

                    I have almost all haze related post saved

                    please do your research before spreading mis truths

                    I asked many / most of these questions to Nevil when he was posting, just as I’ve asked Sams . But Nevil loved to discuss details ( Nevils post Below)

                    The best haze hybrids that I bred came from the First Haze female I grew. It was bred to a 75% NL1 ruderalis male. I was so impressed that my first Haze release was NL1xHzC, from a select NL1 cut. It wasn't as good as it's predecessor.
                    Excluding FH female, the two males A+C were genetically the best (progeny testing). If any of the other females had better progeny than the males, I would have used them, but they didn't. Because of Hazes being slow to flower, it was more efficient to use the males, but this was not my motivation. I wish that I had kept FH, but such is life.

                    N.

                    Quote:
                    im dying to know what haze parent was used in your first haze hybrid released at the seed bank the hazeXnl1?

                    Quote:
                    HzC
                    Quote:
                    the 89 nl5haze
                    Was HzC. HzA died before commercial quantities were produced.

                    Female Hazes were not used to produce commercial quantities of seed.
                    N.


                    1luvbigherb


                    in NYC around my way we say if it anint church it anint fire
                    more incense and less nonsense

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by bigherb View Post

                      Mis information is the reason I wrote my article years ago.

                      I have almost all haze related post saved

                      please do your research before spreading mis truths

                      I asked many / most of these questions to Nevil when he was posting, just as I’ve asked Sams . But Nevil loved to discuss details ( Nevils post Below)

                      The best haze hybrids that I bred came from the First Haze female I grew. It was bred to a 75% NL1 ruderalis male. I was so impressed that my first Haze release was NL1xHzC, from a select NL1 cut. It wasn't as good as it's predecessor.
                      Excluding FH female, the two males A+C were genetically the best (progeny testing). If any of the other females had better progeny than the males, I would have used them, but they didn't. Because of Hazes being slow to flower, it was more efficient to use the males, but this was not my motivation. I wish that I had kept FH, but such is life.

                      N.

                      Quote:
                      im dying to know what haze parent was used in your first haze hybrid released at the seed bank the hazeXnl1?

                      Quote:
                      HzC
                      Quote:
                      the 89 nl5haze
                      Was HzC. HzA died before commercial quantities were produced.

                      Female Hazes were not used to produce commercial quantities of seed.
                      N.


                      1luvbigherb


                      I just don’t agree or believe in the truth of that source, no anger but you’re more of a story seeker than someone who gets into genetics or breeding. In general, even though you have a lot of information, you lack experience with genetics and I don't want to go into deeper stories with you. The same source of information says that jack herer, ssh and diesel are the same cuting. That SSH was before Jack herer etc .... it's all a bunch of lies that only a gullible man or in this case inexperienced can believe...........


                      I can confirm with certainty that he was behind these catalogs.
                      None of you can confirm that Nevil wrote behind that forum avatar,
                      By the amount of nonsense and lies that nickname wrote
                      we can only conclude that this is a person who wanted to increase sales of mr nice genetics ,
                      but not by the quality of the seeds, but by blaspheming someone else’s genetics...................... ................

                      Thats enugh what i want to say, try growi some hazes, make some expirience to yourself
                      it will be harder for you to sell such cheap stories....as this guy from mr nice fake nevile water boy avatar was.

                      Comment


                        Hey bigherb, thanks for clarifying and putting me onto a more factual information regarding Nevil and his experience with original haze specimens. I don't like contributing to the spread of misinformation. Your recent comment shows a lot about Nevils understanding about the plants at the time. Especially the importance of progeny testing males. That is where you see the observable traits they pass on. It's really cool. A lot of incredibly knowledgeable folks around here. Around this plant. On this forum it really is a place where the cream off the top seems to be.

                        Hempy, I owe you an apology man. My latest comment was criticizing in ways it didn't have to be. Your comments had me dig into a publication I have that's a little over my head so I haven't really delved into the entire scope of it's contents. Imagine my surprise when I go thumbing through it to find something proving myself right only to find the following:

                        "19.13 Markers to Assess the Sex Phenotype in Cannabis

                        The identification of male and female plants originating from a population of germinated seeds of cannabis is a key aspect in the commercial production of marihuana. Male plants need to be identified and rouged out prior to flower development to avoid potential pollen spread, which could result in seed devel opment if pollination were to take place. The identification of male-sex specific markers has received considerable interest in efforts to develop those into methods that can assist in separation of male from female plants early during development.

                        By initially using RAPD markers to separate male from female plants in dieocious hemp, Sakamoto et al. (1995), showed the presence of two DNA fragments (900 and 730 bp in size) which were detected in all male plants but were absent in female plants. These two DNA fragments were cloned and used as probes in gel blot analysis of genomic DNA. When the male and female DNAs were allowed ta hybridize with the 500 bp probe, no differences in patterns were observed between these plants. In contrast, when the DNAs were allowed to hybridize with the 730 bp probe, much more intense bands specific to male plants were detected, in addition to fess intense bands that were common to both sexes. The 730 bp DNA fragment was named MADC1 (male-associated DNA sequence in Cannabis sativa). The sequence of MADC1 did not include a long open reading frame and it exhibited no significant similarity to previously reported sequences. In a study by Mandolino et al. (1999), RAPD analysis revealed the occurrence of a 400 bp band which was consistently found only in male plants. Following sequence characterization of this MADC2, a low homology (54.8-59.8%) was found to retrotransposon-like elements in plants but not to MADCI. Interestingly, the sequence was shown to be present in both male as well as female plants, suggesting it was not specific to the male chromosome. Primers developed from this region were used to specifically distinguish male from female plants based on different-sized bands produced following PCR. Sakamoto et al. (2005) conducted further RAPD analysis to identify additional male-specific bands in hemp (MADC3-771 bp in size and MADC4~ 576 bp in size) which were characterized as retrotransposable elements and reported to be present on the Y chromosome as well as on other chromosomes in male plants. Torjek et al. (2001) reported on additional male-specific sequences MACS 5 and MADC6 which were not homologous to any previous sequence.

                        During our research on the development of a new PCR-based test to distinguish male from female plants of marihuana and hemp at the seedling stage of growth (Chen et al. 2015), we analyzed DNA samples of leaves from growers and breeders across North America and a few from Europe. The PCR analysis con, Sistently showed the presence of 2 bands in all male plants (560 bp and 390 bp in 8iZe) and only one band in female plants (560 bp) (Fig. 19.13). In a few plants that Were hermaphrodites (showing male flowers in addition to primarily female flowers), all were observed to be genetically female. In a population of seedlings derived from germinated seed, we observed a 4:6 segregation of male: female plants (Fig. 19.13). This PCR-based method was developed into the GreenScreen Plant Sex ID kit (www.screenyourgreen.com/).

                        19.14 Future Directions
                        One of the obstacles to obtaining a complete understanding of the genetic complexity of cannabis is the current lack of genetic information on commercially used strains of marihuana that are deposited in a verified database (Welling et al. 2016) . Given the vast number of strains with unique names developed by seed companies, breeders and home enthusiasts, this would be a vast undertaking. However, the inclusion of information of the genetic background and parentage of the most common and widely used strains for production by seed companies would allow for accurate investigations of genetic diversity within Cannabis sativa to be made. Sequence characterization of a larger number of strains is required. The other intriguing aspect that requires further in-depth research is the molecular basis for the development of male and female plants and the characterization of the underlying mechanisms. These studies would shed light on the role of sex chromosomes and the regulatory gene sequences that guide floral development and phenotypic expression of male and/or female sex.

                        Fig. 19.13 PCR detection of male and female plants in marihuana. Male plants consistently showed the presence of 2 bands (560 and 390 bp in size) while female plants have only one band (560 bp). Upper panel Lanes 8 and JO are male plants. Middle panel Lane 8 is a male plant. Lower panel Lanes 2, 3, 6, 7, and M are male plants"

                        Suman Chandra - Hemant Lata Mahmoud A. ElSohly Editors

                        Cannabis sativa L.Botany and Biotechnology

                        Springer

                        I'll be the first to say that I don't know exactly what all that means, buy I'm pretty sure it says that males have additional genetic material that they contribute. It comes down to a quality vs quantity at the end of the day, but leaves a strong argument for the importance of male/sire/stud lines in breeding. The bull elephant, silverback gorilla, haze a/c lol My bad for not being more open minded Hempy. I appreciate these conversations. Hope you are having a lovely day. Much love
                        Last edited by sbeanonnamellow; 10-12-2021, 19:30. Reason: Holy formating Batman sorry for anyone who had to read or before I noticed

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by CANNATORIUM View Post


                          I just don’t agree or believe in the truth of that source, no anger but you’re more of a story seeker than someone who gets into genetics or breeding. In general, even though you have a lot of information, you lack experience with genetics and I don't want to go into deeper stories with you. The same source of information says that jack herer, ssh and diesel are the same cuting. That SSH was before Jack herer etc .... it's all a bunch of lies that only a gullible man or in this case inexperienced can believe...........


                          I can confirm with certainty that he was behind these catalogs.
                          None of you can confirm that Nevil wrote behind that forum avatar,
                          By the amount of nonsense and lies that nickname wrote
                          we can only conclude that this is a person who wanted to increase sales of mr nice genetics ,
                          but not by the quality of the seeds, but by blaspheming someone else’s genetics...................... ................

                          Thats enugh what i want to say, try growi some hazes, make some expirience to yourself
                          it will be harder for you to sell such cheap stories....as this guy from mr nice fake nevile water boy avatar was.
                          Cannatorium/Rosemary Incense/Astro THC..

                          You’re getting upset again when people aren’t interested in your horseshit and it isn’t the first time. You always think you know everything better than others and every time people aren’t buying into your fantasies you start to call them names. Always the same story with you.

                          ..Soon you’re gonna tell us again that you’re leaving ICMAG cause we're bunch of assholes, only to come back little later using a different name.
                          Why don't you grow up already.

                          9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB
                          ****

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by bigherb View Post

                            Mis information is the reason I wrote my article years ago.

                            I have almost all haze related post saved

                            please do your research before spreading mis truths

                            I asked many / most of these questions to Nevil when he was posting, just as I’ve asked Sams . But Nevil loved to discuss details ( Nevils post Below)

                            The best haze hybrids that I bred came from the First Haze female I grew. It was bred to a 75% NL1 ruderalis male. I was so impressed that my first Haze release was NL1xHzC, from a select NL1 cut. It wasn't as good as it's predecessor.
                            Excluding FH female, the two males A+C were genetically the best (progeny testing). If any of the other females had better progeny than the males, I would have used them, but they didn't. Because of Hazes being slow to flower, it was more efficient to use the males, but this was not my motivation. I wish that I had kept FH, but such is life.

                            N.

                            Quote:
                            im dying to know what haze parent was used in your first haze hybrid released at the seed bank the hazeXnl1?

                            Quote:
                            HzC
                            Quote:
                            the 89 nl5haze
                            Was HzC. HzA died before commercial quantities were produced.

                            Female Hazes were not used to produce commercial quantities of seed.
                            N.


                            1luvbigherb

                            i highlighted the parts of bh s post that are particularly relevant in this current conversation ,
                            they underline the fact that nevil did not say haze males were better than haze females ,
                            just that he had them and wished he also had females to work with as the one he did have produced the best ...

                            sam also says there is no difference if you use a male or a female ,
                            just that you use an elite plant , the way around you do makes no difference ,

                            the current line of debate by the op is based on a false premise,
                            to be honest im not really sure what its about ...
                            Last edited by Donald Mallard; 10-12-2021, 20:51.

                            Comment


                              As a family who has had to breed horse, cattle, for many years as for a living, males are important but, you never put them in with anything less than the quality of the male, if you are not looking to waste your money that is. little off topic but i think i made my point, it is the same with plants...
                              Last edited by ...CR500AF...; 10-18-2021, 23:49.
                              “Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting.”

                              Steve McQueen

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by sbeanonnamellow View Post

                                I'll be the first to say that I don't know exactly what all that means, buy I'm pretty sure it says that males have additional genetic material that they contribute. It comes down to a quality vs quantity at the end of the day, but leaves a strong argument for the importance of male/sire/stud lines in breeding. The bull elephant, silverback gorilla, haze a/c lol My bad for not being more open minded Hempy. I appreciate these conversations. Hope you are having a lovely day. Much love
                                The elements in question are only indicators. That section of the paper tells you one way to distinguish males from females using only sequence. And transposons and retrotransposons have nothing to do with quality of genes or anything. They're just endlessly replicating nonsense that jumps from one portion of the genome to another. They certainly have implications of relevance for when things go wrong but not really when they go right. They interrupt as needlessly as they replicate.

                                Back to Haze!
                                Tell the people you love that you love them.

                                Comment

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