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    Originally posted by @hempy View Post
    Burning Bush was an Original Haze with a strong Thai influence
    This is the problem with Sams testimony. He changes his story too often. He's said lately that O.Haze was a hybrid of Colombian lines only.

    My best guess based on that old seed ad and armchair detective work lol

    NYE Haze = Colombian Gold x Colombian Red
    Original Haze#1 = Mexican x NYE Haze
    Original Haze#2 = Kerala x Original Haze #1
    Original Haze#3 = Thai x Original Haze #2

    So Nevil would have got something similar to NYE Haze which is Colombian dominant with a bit of Thai on account of Colombian Gold having Thai in it. OldTimers Haze would be very similar to NYE Haze and possibly also Nevils '69 Haze stock. Sam would got the last version of Original Haze#3 and is what was likely sold at Seedsman.

    Btw I think the '69 date is way off. OldTimers haze is dated around 1980 according to the guy who bred the Gold Colombian parent.

    Peace,

    N7

    Comment


      Originally posted by Nexus7 View Post
      This is the problem with Sams testimony. He changes his story too often. He's said lately that O.Haze was a hybrid of Colombian lines only.

      My best guess based on that old seed ad and armchair detective work lol

      NYE Haze = Colombian Gold x Colombian Red
      Original Haze#1 = Mexican x NYE Haze
      Original Haze#2 = Kerala x Original Haze #1
      Original Haze#3 = Thai x Original Haze #2

      So Nevil would have got something similar to NYE Haze which is Colombian dominant with a bit of Thai on account of Colombian Gold having Thai in it. OldTimers Haze would be very similar to NYE Haze and possibly also Nevils '69 Haze stock. Sam would got the last version of Original Haze#3 and is what was likely sold at Seedsman.

      Btw I think the '69 date is way off. OldTimers haze is dated around 1980 according to the guy who bred the Gold Colombian parent.

      Peace,

      N7
      Detective,
      do you know what's the back story of OTH?
      "American growers are looking for the same thing: strong, overpowering, two-toke indica with huge yields. My number one seller is Northern Lights.”— (RIP) Nevil Schoenmakers

      Comment


        Originally posted by RoyalFlush View Post
        Didn't you already have this argument with Karma in the C5 thread?


        I'm not trying to throw gas in the fire.

        Maybe DJ9 could give his input about it?
        This is the A5haze plant Hempy has doubts about -
        https://www.instagram.com/p/Bqut1G1h...on_share_sheet



        .



        Hi Royal there was no argument mate unless some one can verify the clones as the real deal then how can we know it as fact.Shanti would know as did Nev and Dj9 dose also also.


        Originally posted by dj9 View Post
        Hey there...as far as I know the A is still alive.
        And yes I was around the castle many times during bulk deals but never met
        any Dominicans . But I wasn't there every day of course. I lived 20 minutes up the road when I moved there, but stayed at the castle on my extended visits before that.
        Nevil had about 100 Haze seeds from Sam. He asked for the oldest ones and bought the whole bag. He tried to start about a dozen and none started. So he threw them all in [yes threw] . 6 germinated ...1 died right away. A and C are famous. B was a female which to me had the classic Cali taste... I spent some time in Happy Camp Cal. in 82 and had tasted this there. But Nevil didn't care for it cause it flowered too quick and wasn't very Hazy . D was rope and E flowered forever. Nevil had pollinated it 3 times with various males, and pulled seeds off and finally cut it, much to his dismay later. It ended up being some very powerful Haze. I have recently heard and seen a pic of the A and C male in Cali but who can tell from a knarly little pic. I grew 100s of A5s and have never yet seen a pic on line that resembled it. It was a big classic Sat with small end of your finger sized fluffy buds and tasted like spice, chicken soup, slight menthol ...much less pine than the C crosses. The A you could smoke forever, but the C, although it was much more intense, a person built a tolerance fairly quickly. I grew 1000s of C5s. I had to give away for free to Coffeeshop owners in the beginning cause no one wanted it. Everyone was used to that crappy 'skunk'. By the way I would like to ask the whole community if anyone knows what SK#1 was called before it left Cali. It couldn't have been Skunk since, it wasn't. I met Sam at the first Cannabis cup at a Restaurant in Rotterdam . This event was sponsored and set up by Ben. Sam was there with a beautiful sweet smelling SK1. bud. That was my first exposure to SK1. Having come from Canada and lived in Cali and Oregon Skunk was a wide leafed heavy Indica you could smell for a mile. Nothing sweet about it . It was great weed but nothing to do with Skunk. Its just a theory so don't git yer panties in a knot but I smoked Hawaiian in the early 80s that was the same profile. I believe its an old Hawaiian actually but that's for another time.
        And thanks again for welcoming me to everyone. D


        Not had an arguments with Karma at all Royal my point was to my understanding only shanti had the cut.
        Team-Haze

        Comment


          Originally posted by @hempy View Post
          Hi Royal there was no argument mate unless some one can verify the clones as the real deal then how can we know it as fact.Shanti would know as did Nev and Dj9 dose also also.






          Not had an arguments with Karma at all Royal my point was to my understanding only shanti had the cut.
          Sorry @hempy I don't know what the hell I was thinking using that word. I changed it to something more appropriate *Discussion.
          "American growers are looking for the same thing: strong, overpowering, two-toke indica with huge yields. My number one seller is Northern Lights.”— (RIP) Nevil Schoenmakers

          Comment


            Originally posted by RoyalFlush View Post
            Detective,
            do you know what's the back story of OTH?
            Story goes a world famous US musician comissioned his friend to travel to Santa Marta, Colombia to find Colombian Gold seeds in 1979/80 as they could no longer get it back home.

            The guy found said seeds and took them back to Santa Cruz, Ca. and bred with them there.

            That exact same Gold Colombian line went on to parent OTH according to genetic testing on phylos database.

            Not sure exactly how they came into OldTimers hands from there but please share the story if you do.

            I asked the guy who went to Colombia in '79/80 to come here and share his story but he was not interested. He had no knowledge of the Haze Bros. or Original Haze it was just called Santa Cruz Haze according to him.

            Peace,

            N7

            Comment


              Originally posted by @hempy View Post
              Hi Royal there was no argument mate unless some one can verify the clones as the real deal then how can we know it as fact.Shanti would know as did Nev and Dj9 dose also also.

              Not had an arguments with Karma at all Royal my point was to my understanding only shanti had the cut.
              Wouldn’t be the first time he peddled an unverified cut. See also: Shoreline. Bet you thought I forgot, Karma.

              M.
              No women, no kids.

              Comment


                PIff,Church..... is NL5 x Haze from the seed bank.
                Hunted and grown by P. A.
                He grew it in Illinios,FL and NY,He was half Cuban.
                His was biggest grower at that time there.
                Always was sold in jars. Buds were all calyx.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by @hempy View Post
                  Hi Royal there was no argument mate unless some one can verify the clones as the real deal then how can we know it as fact.Shanti would know as did Nev and Dj9 dose also also.

                  Hey Hempy, if you ask me, that A5 sold in Southern NL since the 90s, is/was the most potent and most incensey weed a Coffeeshop has ever seen.

                  So if it is a fake, then it is a very good one. Good enough to be kept 25 years (that I know) or longer and good enough to get legend for people who only buy Coffeeshop weed and never have heard in their life of of Neville or of HazeA, never grown a plant etc.

                  That A5 has always been the most expensive weed on the menus and had zero bag appeal compared to everything else, except import weed. Was much better than any Neville's Haze cup winners I did try at the time. And luckily some of the guys who were working for or in the Coffeeshop(s) of that southern area seem to have managed to save that A5, that has gotten legend for CS customers.


                  Is it a coincidence that the same people do also hold the C5, HPH ... nowadays and that these were sold at the same shop for decades?

                  What we can discuss is if that Coffeeshop A5 of the 90s was Neville's cut or not. But it is evident that if someone holds the legendary A5 that was sold in very rare CS's then those who were providing these Coffeeshops with A5.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by ChicagoG View Post
                    PIff,Church..... is NL5 x Haze from the seed bank.
                    Hunted and grown by P. A.
                    He grew it in Illinios,FL and NY,He was half Cuban.
                    His was biggest grower at that time there.
                    Always was sold in jars. Buds were all calyx.
                    An Ivan.F submitted NYC Dominican Piff Haze to the phylos DNA database. It's clearly related to all the Nevil NL5xHaze work (possibly Haze C) but hard to say exactly what it was.

                    Any ideas if he's a legit source?

                    N7

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Nexus7 View Post
                      This is the problem with Sams testimony. He changes his story too often. He's said lately that O.Haze was a hybrid of Colombian lines only.

                      My best guess based on that old seed ad and armchair detective work lol

                      NYE Haze = Colombian Gold x Colombian Red
                      Original Haze#1 = Mexican x NYE Haze
                      Original Haze#2 = Kerala x Original Haze #1
                      Original Haze#3 = Thai x Original Haze #2

                      So Nevil would have got something similar to NYE Haze which is Colombian dominant with a bit of Thai on account of Colombian Gold having Thai in it. OldTimers Haze would be very similar to NYE Haze and possibly also Nevils '69 Haze stock. Sam would got the last version of Original Haze#3 and is what was likely sold at Seedsman.

                      Btw I think the '69 date is way off. OldTimers haze is dated around 1980 according to the guy who bred the Gold Colombian parent.

                      Peace,

                      N7

                      What do you mean "lately"?
                      Here's post from Sam from almost 6 years ago where hw states the original haze was different Columbians.
                      Can anybody find a quote that is even older than this?


                      So, it's not fair to imply he just changed the story last year or few days ago or what ever.

                      Originally posted by Sam_Skunkman View Post
                      I gave seeds to both the Original Haze growers in 1972 and also later, One used Thai and S Indian with his Haze in the very early 70's. The other grew the Thai but decided it was not as good as Haze and did not use it. The very first Original Haze was a crop of both green, lime green, purple, and other colors, all from Columbian, after that I am not sure and anyone that says they are, is just fooling themselves. One of the Haze growers RL told me a different story then the Original Haze guy that did it first up in the SC mountains and then in the next few years moved down to right by my house, less then a block away, the other Haze grower RL, who put out the OH poster lived a block the other side of my house. I had a friend "J" that used to help the SC mountain Haze grower, he was also a good friend of RCC, he told me all about the early Original Haze I never saw, as I got back to SC in early 1972. They both told me different stories, I did not care so much it was the Cannabis I was interested in.
                      Sacred Seeds never tried to stablize or improve the Original Haze, our only goal was to save as many of the Original Haze genes as I could so I used as many Original Haze females and males as I could. I think I could create an all Original Haze improved line but I would need to grow thousands and thousands of plants to find a few keeper females, the males would require to be transformed into females to be screened as keepers, and/or by progeney trials that would be best. I would have done it already except that Original Haze is a lousey Dry Sift Hash maker and I hate to use so much space to do the work right. If I don't someone will....
                      I really do not like Original Haze hybrids that use an WLD Indica to make powerful Hazes, they are strong but often lack the pure Sativa high the I prefer. It is easy though.
                      If done right with just haze taste and effects, and I can't tell it is a hybrid and it is strong as the Haze was, I would like it I bet. Even the Purple Haze from back in the 70's was not really my choice, they did seem a bit stronger then the greens, limes, and blues, but they also had a more narcotic effect to me. They were the prettiest not the best, to me.
                      -SamS
                      9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB
                      ****

                      Comment


                        The seeds Sam gave/sold to Nevil were re-pro seeds made by Sam and he states he didn't give Nevil any original seeds from the Haze Bros.
                        I don't know where this was originally posted by Sam, maybe here on icmag, but i found it on Mrnice forums


                        After Nevil's pasing, Sam weighs in
                        https://www.mrnice.nl/forum/4-talk-s...am-weighs.html
                        Originally posted by Sam Skunkman

                        I just read all the posts from my last post #1945 to #2376.The seeds I sold to Nevil were all made by me mostly from Holland work.
                        I never sold any I collected from Haze I obtained from the Haze Bros. I sold my work.
                        J & G are the same guy. Almost all my OHaze seeds were from him.
                        I never sold any OHaze X S Indian Kerala or Thai as OHaze, I always called them OHaze X whatever.
                        Burning Bush was 100% pure OHaze I grew it in Calif and named it, RCC also smoked it with me, and loved it. That and another OHaze I called Cream De La Cream and another I called Mr Greasy even though it was a girl, it had very very streched laddery buds that even when dry and placed in a zip bag greased up the bag unbelievably, it was also hard to roll and keep a joint lit.
                        Nevil did not have OHaze seeds from before the 70's 80"s as he got his OHaze from me and I only sold him seeds I had made, all 100% OHaze, but not from the 60's or early 70's as I did not start making OHaze seeds until the mid 70's and in large amounts in the 80's in Holland. I think I sold him seeds I made in Holland after 85'.

                        I will try and answer a few questions if I know the answers, but will ignore any questions I have answered before. Dont ask me about others Haze as I was not the breeder you need to ask the breeder.

                        The reason that OHaze was seldom found in Coffee shops in Amsterdam is because commercial growers wanted herb with a short flowering period, why would they grow a OHaze that took 16-24 weeks and did not yield as much as a 7-8 week plant?
                        That and I was a seed producer not a commercial grower if I was I would have worked up an OHaze pure, that was better then NH at least to me.
                        I get that not all liked OHaze X Skunk or Thai/OHazeXSkunk but I did and many others I know also did.
                        I also have yet to find any Cannabis that had a more Cerebral, Clear, Up, Psychdelic high with no celing that got you higher every time you took a toke. Nevils did not, for me anyway.
                        People have many different preferences I also have mine. RCC agrees with me if that matters. I did not see OHaze until the very early 70's I did see both G's and RL's my wife manicured for G and he was the first OHaze Bro, we were close back in the day, and his was the best. Shame he quite growing OHaze but it was so much easier to get my Skunk #1 seeds for his grows, this was before people maintained clones, and his OHaze was already suffering from inbreeding depression, I did not try and improve my OHaze seed lines I tried to preserve all the genes and only sold them with the advice to use them for breeding not commercial growing, to use for commercial growing you need to grow thousands and select the best 10 clones to reproduce for product, few people wanted to do that.
                        I sold Nevil seeds for $1 a pop for any of my varieties.
                        I sold by the kilo for €5,000 there are 50,000 - 75,000 for small seeds like OHaze.
                        I still have a KG of OHaze seeds made a decade ago they are not for sale they are for a OHaze project I am trying to arrange outdoors in the ground at a latitude of 18 just to find and clone the best 10-20 for production where legal.
                        I have zero problems to keep well made seeds alive stored under refridgerated 4c for 25 years so they are still germainating in the high 90's if and when I do this I will post photos of the 10-20 as well as their Cannabinoid and terpene profiles.
                        These are slightly over 75 per gram so 75,000 seeds and normally I get 70% females with OHaze so I will have lots to select the 10-20 keepers from, I expect about 50,000 females if started carefully. I am retired from selling seeds, but I will allow others to do what they want with my work, they will pay me for the work, and it is not work as I want to do it even retired.

                        FYI the OHaze grown by the Haze Bros were not all equal in quality, maybe 10% were fantastic, 50% good or great, and maybe 10% not as good but most would still think it was great. Each year after 1970 the quality and yields and vigor declined a bit. By 1980 I did not know any large OHaze growers, for the reasons I have stated.

                        I have told the truth, I have zero to gain by altering the truth, I am retired for several years now. I have had a great life, few complaints, I would like to put out a dependable pure OHaze seed line or two for my self and others, even if I do not sell them but let others do so. Selling is work, I do not need the $ and I will only do what I love today. Breeding OHaze is not work for me it is fun, and I think I can do it better then anyone else just because of my experience and history.

                        FYI I have all but given up on Phylos, they have other goals then my interest in Cannabis Evolution and Relationships, but FYI I only sent them extracted DNA no living materials they could steal, I also sent them many of my varieties DNA, focused on Landraces to help explore my interest in Evolution and Relationships. I am glad I tried, nothing ventured nothing gained.....

                        -SamS

                        Peace
                        9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB
                        ****

                        Comment


                          ^^^
                          To paraphrase

                          Sam says O.Haze is pure Colombian
                          Sam says Burning bush is pure O.Haze
                          Sam says Burning bush is Thai dominant (see hempy post)

                          See the contradiction there?

                          N7

                          Comment


                            We will figure out what happened on 9/11 and with JFK before we know the exact story here. Thrilling stuff to read, appreciate the fuck out of all of you for the years you spent working as hard as you did.

                            Comment


                              ...Iet me stop, I already said too much...
                              Last edited by RoyalFlush; 02-25-2020, 10:08.
                              "American growers are looking for the same thing: strong, overpowering, two-toke indica with huge yields. My number one seller is Northern Lights.”— (RIP) Nevil Schoenmakers

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Morphote View Post
                                Wouldn’t be the first time he peddled an unverified cut. See also: Shoreline. Bet you thought I forgot, Karma.

                                M.
                                Yep i had a cut mislabeld shoreline send from US many years ago, same one Devils Harvest robbed from B.s room.

                                And yes you was one of the people to make that clear.

                                No seeds where ever sold by me of that, thanks to you and few others.


                                Your forget im a open book.



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