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The Haze discussion thread

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ojd

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I hear you but unless the Lemon/Pine comes from the NL then its guaranteed as if you know dutch Haze it's far from all Spicy/Frankincense.
The most famous Hazes were all C5 leaning over the last 20 years and only the A5 Hazes making a comeback much later after the old south crew started bringing buds into the shops again.if you smoked any of the famous
G13 Haze C Male hybrids are extreme strong pure/lemon/ fresh cut grass terps and very similar to some of the best thai and thai hybrids.A5 is very good and 1 of the best but the old C5 was up there with the A5 just completely opposite side of the A5.
Only thing 100% is death

I’ve no experience with Original Haze other than 2 premature To
Hills Haze grown outdoors in NYC . I’ve never Hear or can’t ever recall lemon traits in Original Haze

I was Toms the True Origins by an apprentice/ friend of G the originator of Original Haze . His story was always it was 100% Punto Rojo crossed to itself .

Sams later states Original Haze was pure Colombian / a three way Colombian. G the originator never crossed Punto Rojo . RL the partner crossed a few plants of Thai and even less S.Indian only one year

We all have our opinions

1luvbigherb
 

Hemphrey Bogart

Active member
Veteran
Yes Hemphrey ..that's how I remember it.
I think Sam didn't even know exactly what he had.
Just an opinion of course.
D

...Which makes me wonder if the labeling of dates on the bags of seed was done on purpose to give the seeds more cache? Like “here’s these super old Ohaze seeds...made by the Haze brothers” instead of “here’s some seed I’ve worked on and they are all mixed up....good luck with these.”

HB.
 
D

dj9

Well actually alittle know fact nevil was actually a extraordinary breeder an I believe giffted in this area...he didnt only breed our plant but others too and animals...infact he was that good at one point he was going to go up against the saudi royal family and there billions and billions and many resources in breeding champion horses. Not sure wat became of this tho.
Actually the English horse breeders ripped him off.
Over charged for everything ...storage, shipping, feeding etc and then stole his horses while he was in prison. He couldn't fight them anymore so he let it go.
Old money vacuuming up the new money.
Nevil bred fish , birds , dogs and a few other things.
His initial breeding knowledge came from breeding Budgies.
D
 
D

dj9

...Which makes me wonder if the labeling of dates on the bags of seed was done on purpose to give the seeds more cache? Like “here’s these super old Ohaze seeds...made by the Haze brothers” instead of “here’s some seed I’ve worked on and they are all mixed up....good luck with these.”

HB.
Or heres some seeds I collected from bags of weed more like.
D
 

TheDarkStorm

Well-known member
Only thing 100% is death

I’ve no experience with Original Haze other than 2 premature To
Hills Haze grown outdoors in NYC . I’ve never Hear or can’t ever recall lemon traits in Original Haze

I was Toms the True Origins by an apprentice/ friend of G the originator of Original Haze . His story was always it was 100% Punto Rojo crossed to itself .

Sams later states Original Haze was pure Colombian / a three way Colombian. G the originator never crossed Punto Rojo . RL the partner crossed a few plants of Thai and even less S.Indian only one year

We all have our opinions

1luvbigherb

Wat nevil was trying to describe and was later was chasing was a plant that was in varying percentages in all those seeds including sams ..he wasnt saying his had some sort of thai and sams didnt...he didnt describe that plant just in one or two of those seeds an not being in others..wat he described was a plant that was generating all the power in varying percentages in all the haze seeds...his an sams
 

OldCoolSativa

Well-known member
Heres one for you Herb.
Its actually none of those.
Its a pure strain. I wont say where its from yet.
Of course Colombos etc were crossed into in but the real Haze is 1 strain.
I found it after 35 years of searching.
And it was right where I always thought it would be.
I will post pics . Was a bitter sweet moment to find this
just 6 months after Nevil passed. But I felt Nevil guided
me toward it, cause it went so easy and matter of fact.
D

Looking forward to hear more about this!
 

OldCoolSativa

Well-known member
GoatCheese;8796361 This is very simple: 1. Nevil clearly states the 60's year dates were written [COLOR=red said:
on ONE BAG OF SEEDS[/COLOR] and he said their common ancestor was a Haze called the "Burning Bush".
2. Sam says the Burning Bush was his Haze plant and that even RCC smoked it in the States.
3. Sam says he started growing Haze in mid-70's, and that he didn't give original stock from the Haze Bros to Nevil
4. So the seeds Nevil thought were 60's seeds were infact re-pro seeds made by Sam with the Burning Bush-Haze
It's all there in these few quotes below.

When arriving at or defending conclusions it's always good practice to check your premises.
 

pinkus

Well-known member
Veteran
I'm glad to have found this thread to replace the ask sam thread.

Here's something you all know but we keep sweeping under the rug and whistling: Ain't no native weed to Columbia, or Mexico, or Jamaica etc. ALL Landraces from the Americas are downstream from Asia. :bandit: Sam's is reputed to come from Columbian only. So where did those originate from? I'd GUESS Thailand, but the closest terps to my "rose-colored glasses sandalwood" Lumbo gold I often hear Kerala as the sandalwood flavored source. Which brings up: aren't there multiple places where certain Terpenes show up?

I had a friend of a friend grow some skunk obtained on the interwebs. It turned Purple. To him, he found out that it's actually Erdpert. WTF!? really? We have a tendency to tell the stories we want to believe. ALL of us.

"Haze" is a marketing label, though we wish desperately for it to be a strain. It's a type, not an individual. I still LOVE haze, as it's the type I've always aimed for. Well, there were a few years in my 20's when I thought NL was the answer. I changed my mind.
 

ojd

CONNOISSEUR GENETICS
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The king of coy( carp) he was known.
A man of many talents that's for sure
Actually the English horse breeders ripped him off.
Over charged for everything ...storage, shipping, feeding etc and then stole his horses while he was in prison. He couldn't fight them anymore so he let it go.
Old money vacuuming up the new money.
Nevil bred fish , birds , dogs and a few other things.
His initial breeding knowledge came from breeding Budgies.
D
 

Hemphrey Bogart

Active member
Veteran
DJ, do you remember meeting NL Greg? I’ve transcribed an interview he gave recently wherein he talks about flying out to meet Nevil at the Castle to give him seed and work on a lighting recipe for the basement grow space...this would have been in 1985 or so...which corresponds to your time with Nevil. Did Greg really help Nevil build a light recipe for the Castle? I’m not doubting Greg at all, just wanted to see if you remember him visiting and working with Nev on the lighting.

HB.
 

bigherb

Well-known member
Veteran
Or heres some seeds I collected from bags of weed more like.
D

Yes but remember

This is Sams

Originally Posted by Knowsitall4sure / Cannabis World
When did you first see and smoke the Haze?
1971 for me
.

Sams was Not around in 69 , Sams had nothing to do with the origins or The originators grows at all

It’s possible it was from Original Haze seeds Sams collected

But not probable and his post state the opposite

if Sams had given Nevil 100’s or thousands of Seeds . If he collected a hundred or Soo seeds in 71 or after I couldn’t imagine he didn’t use them for his breeding stock or that he even had any left to sell Nevil

Also Sams was a younger guy who only lived on the same block / neighborhood as G a few years later . I was told Sams did some trimming . Sams admittedly post his wife did some trimming for G

How many seeds could he have collected smoking Original Haze ?
How many seeds could he have collected trimming Original Haze ?

The circle was tight they didn’t want seed getting out and they didn’t want just anyone in on the Haze grows

I’m not trying to discredit you or anyone, Sams and Nevil both got upset with me for the same reasons . Everyone or almost everyone posting here is of the similar mindset as me . The dates and details are important

If it was 100 seeds or a thousand seeds does make a difference

Because I have all the old post from both Sams and Nevil and now you’re , considering the passion and interest it only nature to compare

And yes there are and have been some contradictions over the years . I don’t want to upset Sams as I said I wouldn’t continue pointing them out

Please don’t take offense

1luvbigherb
 

bigherb

Well-known member
Veteran
Heres one for you Herb.
Its actually none of those.
Its a pure strain. I wont say where its from yet.
Of course Colombos etc were crossed into in but the real Haze is 1 strain.
I found it after 35 years of searching.
And it was right where I always thought it would be.
I will post pics . Was a bitter sweet moment to find this
just 6 months after Nevil passed. But I felt Nevil guided
me toward it, cause it went so easy and matter of fact.
D

I’m very much looking forward to this post and revelation

1luvbigherb
 

Pineapple_Punch

Well-known member
Veteran
There is thai in Haze 100% as I've grown many pure thai and hybrids and it defo provides that Lemon/ pine side of the x and the spice from Colombian
and if not where did that Lemon terp come from
Some thai you can think your smoking Haze from flavour effects

That with the Thai is very interesting, my most favorite Weed (Barney's Utopia Haze) up until today has this great Lemon/pine smell and taste with a super positive cerebral high. I had some conversations about this Strain a few times over the last years, and i guess even yo sammy wrote somewhere it's C5Haze. So the UH Seed line probably is just a selfed C5Haze. I had some fast flowering phenos which has pretty much no smell, something which could come from the NL side i guess. I've shown a few UH plant pics from phenos where i thought the leaves were looking Asian like to a oldtimer sativa lover (Satva), and he said indeed they look like they have some Asian blood. So when i put the puzzle pieces together it seems my most favorite weed is just a mix of Colombian/Thai and NL, and not a Brazilian IBL like Barneys has stated, of course as the squad fast low odor indica phenos wouldn't make much sense in a Brazilian IBL, more the NL in Neviles work. The long flowering phenos are just awesome. :)
 

GoatCheese

Active member
Veteran
I'm not into speculating why some seeds didn't germ in the 80's.
But I have made seeds, heat stressed the plant and only got around 10 seeds to germinate out of 200-300 seeds that were only few years old, stored in the fridge.

What other factors than bad storage and heat stress affect germ rates? ..you should know, mate, you're seling them :)
Peace

Why were the germ rates so bad if they were fresh seeds and made by someone who knows a thing or 2 about seeds and breeding ? I've seen Sam writen he has seeds that are 20 years old that still germ and I believe him as my first ever seeds still germinate nearly 20 years also.
Even if we were told they were badly stored etc whatever but I've never seen that been said by Sam.Sam has made many seeds and sold or given away X amount and I see alot old Dead seeds but that's out of Sam's hand once he gives to someone else if they dont store in the fridge correctly but surely sam would of known back then as he must of made a million seeds plus by then with these big Greenhouse runs etc etc.
 

GoatCheese

Active member
Veteran
Goatcheese

You basically summed up , what I said many years ago

I posted all the quotes available numerous times , but some will still have opinions and different outlooks

The only difference Now is Sams has given more post/details and the information on
Burning Bush is different , he states now it is pure Colombian no Thai . The strain was offered in his 81 catalogue Soo it’s was clear this Haze had nothing to do with 69 seeds and thus my opinions and assumptions

The whole association with HzA and HzC having Thai to me all those years was because the post of Burning bush being Thai leaning and the thought of Haze being a four way hybrid. But now I believe it was Nevils assumption of his past experiences. He associated the Haze traits with Old Thai he had experienced in his youth

1luvbigherb
Yea, it's quite strange sometimes how people over look writen facts. MAybe because stories can be more entertaining than dry facts.
Sure i'm also interested in the history and the stories, but i'd rather take boring, simple facts than fiction.

+++++++++++++

According to Phylos, many Columbians seem to be closely related to Thais = SE Asian genetics were brought to Americas by East/West Indian Trade companies.
..so this might explain why people are confused about the real origins of Columbian vs. Thai genetics and might have difficulties to tell the difference between some of these phenotypes/populations.

Didn't Nevil also think that one of this Haze males was Thai leaning? ..can't remember which one.
I'm not a Haze expert, btw, and not a huge fan ..just here for the history and the stories.
:tiphat:
 

GoatCheese

Active member
Veteran
1 think I keep going over is if sam had more stock or made those actual seeds sold to Neville how come we have not seen anything surpassing some of the old NL5 Haze cuts and even the pure A and C original seeds ?
[FONT=&quot]Selection by the breeder? Nevil wrote he thought Sam's Haze plants were crap/he didn't like them, and Sam has told he actually likes the electric side of Haze[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]..and i'm not too sure all smokers like the racy/edge-y/electric side of Haze, at least i don't.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]So it could be that, why other Hazes originating from Sam aren't so famous or as good as Nevil's plants were is because people might not be so into the direction of Sam's selection[/FONT]
 

Karma G

Well-known member
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We need a few more pictures in this thread.

Old SSH stock f2@ and in selection last year.

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