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DIY STS Mixing/Using Guide for Feminized Pollen/Seeds R.C.Clarke Method as Base

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    #46
    Any experience trying to reverse auto plants? I have a Malawi Auto x NL from Ace around week 3 in veg form seed that I would like to reverse to make some more of auto fem seeds... Plan was to spray this one, collect pollen, and next round pop a few more of them and polinate them with the fem pollen... I'm thinking maybe I should start spraying in a week or so, and then follow up every 5 days like suggested...

    Any suggestions are appreciated, havent had the chance to play with STS yet but I have the things in hand here and I'm ready to start experimenting!
    Buddah Watcha - Share the Love
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      #47
      Originally posted by Buddah Watcha View Post
      Any experience trying to reverse auto plants? I have a Malawi Auto x NL from Ace around week 3 in veg form seed that I would like to reverse to make some more of auto fem seeds... Plan was to spray this one, collect pollen, and next round pop a few more of them and polinate them with the fem pollen... I'm thinking maybe I should start spraying in a week or so, and then follow up every 5 days like suggested...

      Any suggestions are appreciated, havent had the chance to play with STS yet but I have the things in hand here and I'm ready to start experimenting!
      I made both solutions and kept them separate.

      I felt like
      [iframeb]dy_DASt7hDs[/iframeb] for a few minutes. lol

      I saw the first hairs on my NL super autos yesterday so I combined both, diluted it to 1:3 and sprayed my NL super autos. I'll let them self pollinate and use those seeds this summer. Doing the same for my Honduran.
      ---

      "All men's souls are immortal, but the souls of the righteous are immortal and divine."
      --Socrates

      Comment


        #48
        Here's the STS recipe I found online

        Making STS feminization foliar spray

        You will be preparing two solutions, then combining them both to make STS, then combining the STS with water for your foliar spray.

        You need:
        1. Silver nitrate - AgNO3 (only expensive part of STS)
          Can be found on ebay or in a chem shop
          .
        2. Sodium thiosulfate pentahydrate - Na2S2O3-5H2O
          Can be found on ebay or in a chem shop.
          .
        3. Distilled or RO water, kitchen or medical gloves, plastic syringes, plastic bottles, spray bottle.
          Plastic measuring syringes can be found in any drug store.


        Solution - A - (USE GLOVES - AgNO3 will stain your hands black for months).

        Add 1.7g AgNO3 to 100ml of RO water.
        - Don’t use metal objects – only plastic or glass!
        - It's light sensitive. Avoid exposing this solution to sunlight.
        - Should be stored in a cool dark place or in a dark plastic or dark glass bottle.
        - Can be stored for a long time.

        Solution - B

        Add 9.92g to Na2S2O3-5H2O to 400ml of RO water.
        - Is not light sensitive but can be stored in a cool dark place or in the dark plastic bottle.
        - Can be stored for a long time.
        Solution A and B can be stored for a long time in a dark place (6-12 months).

        STS Solution (Use a plastic syringe for this. )

        - 5ml of Solution A, and
        - 20 ml of Solution B

        Add
        20 ml of Solution B to a glass measuring cup or container.
        Slowly stir 5ml of Solution A into B.
        (plastic coffee stir stick works)

        (The STS Solution is not as stable as solutions A and B separate and should be used as fast as possible once combined.)

        STS FOLIAR SPRAY

        The STS Solution must be diluted with water or you will burn your plants.

        STS Solution to water ratio can be 1:2, 1:3 or 1:4 (STS:Water).
        Examples
        1:2 = 1 part STS and 2 parts water [10ml STS + 20ml water]
        1:2 = 1 part STS and 2 parts water [25ml STS + 50ml water]

        1:3 = 1 part STS and 3 parts water [10ml STS + 30ml water]
        1:3 = 1 part STS and 3 parts water [25ml STS + 75ml water]

        1:4 = 1 part STS and 4 parts water [15ml STS + 45ml water]
        1:4 = 1 part STS and 4 parts water [25ml STS + 75ml water]

        Add a few drops of Dawn dish soap, yucca, or other "wetting agent" to your mix.

        Use this final mixture for foliar spraying.
        It is best to start with a concentration of 1:4 – if nothing happens use 1:3
        Some strains are easy to herm – some not.

        Use your STS foliar spray as soon as flowering starts.

        - You're not going to smoke that weed, so spray every 5 days. Some say to only spray twice, but I spray the inter nodes 4 times in 20 days.


        - Watch for bananas or pollen sacs.
        - Pollen will be female.
        - Let the plant self pollinate and collect some for other plants.
        ---

        "All men's souls are immortal, but the souls of the righteous are immortal and divine."
        --Socrates

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          #49
          Interesting. One more way of mixing stock solutions, with different ratios of mixing the final. I'm also interested in reversing autos, so waiting for the first hairs works?

          Thank you.
          Tending Your Reservoir for a Full pH Swing and Cleaner Cannabis (A Healthier Approach to Hydroponic Cannabis)
          DIY STS Mixing/Using Guide for Feminized Pollen/Seeds
          DIY Super Inexpensive HEPA Filtration
          6-Second Pain Relief for Arthritic and Joint Pain
          8-Minute CBD Test
          Cool and Dry Flowering Discussion Thread

          Comment


            #50
            good post tycho, but I think you may be underestimating how long it can be stored.

            I made sts solution 2 years ago. didn't keep A en B stored seperately, but mixed them immediatly and stored the mix. last time I used it(2-3 months ago), it was still effective, and I haven't noticed a decline in activity(like needing a higher dose), although I may just not have noticed it.

            I have it stored in a brown glass bottle(beer bottle, cap pushed back on and taped shut with duct tape to make it somewhat airtight, I always used cutlery or lighters to remove the cap so it's not bent like you get with a bottle opener) in the fridge. as far as I can see through the glass it still looks clear, no precipate or suspended particles.

            I have noticed that when I had some diluted to use leftover(with tapwater, original solutions for the undiluted mix were with distilled water only), and kept in a clear glass with a piece of saranwrap over it in the fridge, it got some dark/black colored suspended particles after a while(after a few weeks or so). but the undiluted mix doesn't have that.


            another thing I'd add would be to consider other ways of aplication. I read most people applying sts through spraying, personally I find it much more convenient to drop a few drops on nodes/buds/spots were new flowers will form(not on leaves), using a 3 ml pipette. for larger or more plants spraying might be more convenient, but in my case I just reverse a few small clones, so by using a pipette I use way less solution, and I don't have to worry about the spray getting everywhere, or breathing it in. just one time aplying 3-6 drops of the diluted sts-solution is enough for plenty of pollen(usually I apply a little more than that though, more like 8-10 drops used per clone).

            I also think spraying every 5 days is way overkill. my current practice is to apply once a day for 2 or 3 days, then leave it alone. maybe if after 3 weeks I see no effect, I will repeat that. but usually once(where once is actually twice, but immediatly on the following day) is enough. I think just actually once should be enough too, I just do the 2nd aplication to be sure it gets in the plant, since the drops of the first aplication may fall off if there's a bit of wind or so.
            ime less is more, with too high dose/too many aplications the balls can end up empty of visible pollen, if the dose is low but is just high enough to form a few balls they will be just as full of pollen as natural males, even the first balls.

            upon reading a bit more closely, I also notice you use a way higher concentration as I do.

            your undiluted mixed solution ends up about 7 times as strong as mine(based on the amount of silver nitrate, mine is 0.5 grams of silver nitrate per litre mixed undiluted solution, yours is 3.4), and then you only dilute 1:4 before using, while the strongest dilution I've used is 1:6, but usually I'm closer to 1:8 dilution.

            (btw, it's a while since I made my mix, but I think I did a molar ratio of 1:5 or 1:6. so a bit different from the 1:4 I saw mentioned somewhere in the last posts. not sure which is best, but at the time I made my mix I read comments that around 1:6 was the preferred molar ratio, so I stuck to that, through rounding etc to make the weighing easier I think I ended up a little closer to 1:5 than 1:6)
            Last edited by djonkoman; 03-01-2019, 16:03.

            Comment


              #51
              Originally posted by djonkoman View Post
              good post tycho, but I think you may be underestimating how long it can be stored.

              I made sts solution 2 years ago. didn't keep A en B stored seperately, but mixed them immediatly and stored the mix. last time I used it(2-3 months ago), it was still effective, and I haven't noticed a decline in activity(like needing a higher dose), although I may just not have noticed it.

              I have it stored in a brown glass bottle(beer bottle, cap pushed back on and taped shut with duct tape to make it somewhat airtight, I always used cutlery or lighters to remove the cap so it's not bent like you get with a bottle opener) in the fridge. as far as I can see through the glass it still looks clear, no precipate or suspended particles.

              I have noticed that when I had some diluted to use leftover(with tapwater, original solutions for the undiluted mix were with distilled water only), and kept in a clear glass with a piece of saranwrap over it in the fridge, it got some dark/black colored suspended particles after a while(after a few weeks or so). but the undiluted mix doesn't have that.
              Good to know. My premixed STS was stored in a clear plastic bottle and it went grey pretty fast (silver tarnishes). I've stored both parts seperately in plastic bottles for about 9 months and could see the reaction when I mixed both together.

              I've since purchased 2oz amber glass bottles off amazon. That's where I store my STS. I only need it to last a month or so. I'll make more in August.

              Originally posted by djonkoman View Post
              another thing I'd add would be to consider other ways of aplication. I read most people applying sts through spraying, personally I find it much more convenient to drop a few drops on nodes/buds/spots were new flowers will form(not on leaves), using a 3 ml pipette. for larger or more plants spraying might be more convenient, but in my case I just reverse a few small clones, so by using a pipette I use way less solution, and I don't have to worry about the spray getting everywhere, or breathing it in. just one time aplying 3-6 drops of the diluted sts-solution is enough for plenty of pollen(usually I apply a little more than that though, more like 8-10 drops used per clone).

              I also think spraying every 5 days is way overkill. my current practice is to apply once a day for 2 or 3 days, then leave it alone. maybe if after 3 weeks I see no effect, I will repeat that. but usually once(where once is actually twice, but immediatly on the following day) is enough. I think just actually once should be enough too, I just do the 2nd aplication to be sure it gets in the plant, since the drops of the first aplication may fall off if there's a bit of wind or so.
              ime less is more, with too high dose/too many aplications the balls can end up empty of visible pollen, if the dose is low but is just high enough to form a few balls they will be just as full of pollen as natural males, even the first balls.

              upon reading a bit more closely, I also notice you use a way higher concentration as I do.

              your undiluted mixed solution ends up about 7 times as strong as mine(based on the amount of silver nitrate, mine is 0.5 grams of silver nitrate per litre mixed undiluted solution, yours is 3.4), and then you only dilute 1:4 before using, while the strongest dilution I've used is 1:6, but usually I'm closer to 1:8 dilution.

              (btw, it's a while since I made my mix, but I think I did a molar ratio of 1:5 or 1:6. so a bit different from the 1:4 I saw mentioned somewhere in the last posts. not sure which is best, but at the time I made my mix I read comments that around 1:6 was the preferred molar ratio, so I stuck to that, through rounding etc to make the weighing easier I think I ended up a little closer to 1:5 than 1:6)
              "empty of visible pollen?" So that's what happened to mine. lol.
              I had a whole plant explode (top to bottom) and I only sprayed the top but it didn't produce a lot of pollen.

              I also had a couple huge GG4 plants I had creek side that simply would-- not-- turn. At all. :(

              And I had expected results other times.
              ---

              "All men's souls are immortal, but the souls of the righteous are immortal and divine."
              --Socrates

              Comment


                #52
                Originally posted by djonkoman View Post
                I think you may be underestimating how long it can be stored.

                I made sts solution 2 years ago. didn't keep A en B stored seperately, but mixed them immediatly and stored the mix. last time I used it(2-3 months ago), it was still effective, and I haven't noticed a decline in activity(like needing a higher dose), although I may just not have noticed it.
                I've noticed the same. I used some 9 month old solution to reverse a cut of Tsue. The bottle is a brown glass bottle and the sprayer top is black plastic. I also taped a black plastic trash bag round the bottle and up to the bottom of the sprayer head. It was in my fridge for 9 months.

                I have to say, Tsue did not look great, I believe every 5 days is too much for her, and she did not visibly drop much pollen at all. I clipped and dried everything anyway, then broke it up.

                Definitely viable pollen. Tokarev T3 all sauced up with Femmed Tsue pollen. I may lose this cut, so having the pollen is going to be very handy. lol
                Tending Your Reservoir for a Full pH Swing and Cleaner Cannabis (A Healthier Approach to Hydroponic Cannabis)
                DIY STS Mixing/Using Guide for Feminized Pollen/Seeds
                DIY Super Inexpensive HEPA Filtration
                6-Second Pain Relief for Arthritic and Joint Pain
                8-Minute CBD Test
                Cool and Dry Flowering Discussion Thread

                Comment


                  #53
                  about the empty balls from too high dose/too many aplications, my experience is just from a few plants at different times, of just a limited variety of genetics, so don't take it as more than that, if you can spare some clones experiment a bit with the dose to see what it does in your case.

                  but it's what I noticed in my case. it seemed kind of logical, in most plants ethylene plays a role in processes like fruit ripening, flower decay, senescense etc. so my guess it's involved in ripening the male flowers or pollen. googling it, I did find a paper of ethylene being involved in pollen ripening in some kind of cereal(maybe it was wheat, but can't find the paper again right now). so it's plausible, but it was not a closely related plantspecies.

                  what I also noticed was those times I aplied higher doses or more aplications, was that more balls formed but they stayed closed, and eventually fell off still closed. but with lower dose(or when the sts starts wearing off, deduced from new flowers appearing being female again), the male flowers open on their own like natural males(+visible pollen)(I say visible pollen since with those seemingly empty balls I did manage to pollinate a plant once, by drying and crushing those balls. but there were just a few seeds in the bud).

                  Comment


                    #54
                    I believe you're correct about the over application. I'm thinking it should be perfectly fine to back off on the STS when male flowers begin forming.

                    I'm going to change my spray schedule to every 7 days. Once I build a new micro cab (filtered, due to pollen/allergy issues in the house. lol) for feminizing, I'll run a clone a few times with different stopping points. Cool stuff.
                    Tending Your Reservoir for a Full pH Swing and Cleaner Cannabis (A Healthier Approach to Hydroponic Cannabis)
                    DIY STS Mixing/Using Guide for Feminized Pollen/Seeds
                    DIY Super Inexpensive HEPA Filtration
                    6-Second Pain Relief for Arthritic and Joint Pain
                    8-Minute CBD Test
                    Cool and Dry Flowering Discussion Thread

                    Comment


                      #55
                      Thanks for sharing this. I look forward to giving it a go. Cheers!
                      Compound interest is the 8th wonder of the world, those who understand it receive it and those who do not pay it.
                      -Albert Einstein

                      Live below your means - boggleheads.org

                      Think before you speak or suffer for your words
                      -Anthrax

                      Getting old sucks, but if you're lucky it will happen to you
                      -my Dad

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                        #56
                        FLIGHT: STS LSD-25

                        We have lift off!



                        It was hard as hell to stop myself from spraying it a 3rd time. Applied a little patience instead.
                        ---

                        "All men's souls are immortal, but the souls of the righteous are immortal and divine."
                        --Socrates

                        Comment


                          #57
                          Absolutely Beautiful! Thank you for sharing.

                          I dunno though, I think I'd give her one more spray. She doesn't look stressed at all, nice big fat pods, beautiful job. lol Then I'd keep picking the pods which are about to open off, until it was more than 10 about to open for the day. At this point there are LOADS of pods and they will keep opening for a week or so after cutting off the plant.
                          Tending Your Reservoir for a Full pH Swing and Cleaner Cannabis (A Healthier Approach to Hydroponic Cannabis)
                          DIY STS Mixing/Using Guide for Feminized Pollen/Seeds
                          DIY Super Inexpensive HEPA Filtration
                          6-Second Pain Relief for Arthritic and Joint Pain
                          8-Minute CBD Test
                          Cool and Dry Flowering Discussion Thread

                          Comment


                            #58
                            so to show how little STS can be enough, I have a plant here in the process of reversing.
                            no pollen yet so still a little waiting before I can be sure it was a success, but so far everything is looking well, so I'm counting on pollen starting to drop in a week or so, maybe 2 weeks:


                            this plant received 1-2 treatments(actually 2 treatments, but on consecutive days, so I'm counting that as 1, the treatment on the next day is just to make sure the treatment works, since a breeze may cause a drop to fall off, so this way I'm sure each chosen spot had a drop long enough on it to be taken up) on the 4th and 5th of march. so 21 days ago.

                            a treatment consisted of 3-5 drops of diluted STS solution, applied with a pipette(so 6-10 drops in total, didn't write down the exact number of drops but I think it was 3 per time). drops aplied in the 'armpits' of leaves, where new flowers emerge. timed right as the first flowers had emerged, but not really buds yet, just a few single flowers. first some more female flowers emerged, but now the male flowers are getting big enough they can be identified without jewelers loupe.

                            at the same time as aplication(few minutes before the 1st aplication on the 4th of march) I also pinched the top off.
                            I think the timing would be a bit more optimal if you wait for some more female flowers to form, so there's more to pollinate when pollen drops, but I don't need loads of seeds anyway. this is just a little windowsill-plant that I need to get a next generation from(it's recessive for both webbed duckfoot-leaves and autoflower, so next generation I can do selection on those)
                            Last edited by djonkoman; 03-26-2019, 13:51.

                            Comment


                              #60
                              one the most important things I,ve noticed with using reversed plants , let them fully mature before using . I've been using some of mine when say 40% of the flowers have opened and it produces low numbers of seeds , a male at 40% flowers would make hundreds seeds .

                              fast forward to fully mature reversed plant, using the pollen produced 100,s seeds .

                              perhaps this is why some people say there reversed female was,nt viable and did,nt create seed . then went in too early .....you do hear that alot .

                              I,m basing this on reversing 40 + plants also , not just one or two .

                              bit of an observation I,ve made anyway , if it might help someone

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