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Stems are turning purple during week 3 of flower

sshz

Well-known member
420giveaway
Originally Posted by sshz View Post
"No, LED lights do not cause any kind of nutrient deficiency; purple streaks on stems and petioles are a normal response to exposure to ultraviolet (UV) light.

A rumor was started that LED lights cause magnesium deficiency when people noticed that some plants develop purple petioles (leaf stalks) or streaks on the stems under LED lights, but not under HPS lights. While purple coloration on stems and petioles can be one of the signs of magnesium deficiency in plants, it is also a sign that the plant is producing natural purple pigments (anthocyanin) in response to ultraviolet (UV) light. Many artificial lights (including HPS and most LEDs) don't give off UV light, so plants grown under these lights don't produce this natural pigmentation. Under these UV-lacking lights, purple coloration is often a sign of magnesium deficiency. However, when grown under UV-containing lights or natural sunlight, plants will produce their full range of natural pigmentation-- it is not necessarily a sign of a nutrient deficiency.

The major symptom of magnesium deficiency is usually yellowing, blotchy-looking (chlorotic) leaves, accompanied by purple stems and petioles. When growing under LED grow lights, unless the leaves are chlorotic, purple stems and petioles are not a sign of a magnesium deficiency-- they are a sign of a happy, healthy plant."


The above is a compilation from LED websites data and email discussions with Gavita, Spider Farmer and Black Dog LED companies. This isn't pulled from my hat...this is well-known fact. The purpling was going on in my room and I was trying to figure out what was going on. All said it's normal if your LED's have UV and it's nothing to worry about and is normal if your plants look well otherwise. No matter what others are saying, check it out and you'll see everything I posted is absolutely correct.
 
We can agree to disagree.

I posted my thoughts on the different points of contention, and why I felt the way I did, mainly from personal experience, and that of other gardeners on the forums.

You posted what seems to me to be contradictory paragraphs, then backed them up as a compilation of emails to lighting company sales and support reps. I would personally tend to trust users experience over company reps, and hope you would too, as an open minded individual.



Long story shorter, if the OP has UV in his lights, let's call you right. But, what if he doesn't? We haven't heard back from him yet, and as far as I can see from pics on Amazon, that 1700e has red, but no blue.



If he has no UV, would you say he might have his intensity too high for the distance from his plants, demanding more nutrients, showing as a deficiency?
 

sshz

Well-known member
420giveaway
Not sure we are different on our views here.........all I'm saying, and all the LED vendors are saying- is if the lights have UV and 1) you have purple stems and 2) the plants are otherwise healthy- there's nothing to worry about and additional Mg is not necessary- the purpling is perfectly normal.

If the lights don't have UV, and you have purple stems with yellowing leaves, it is most likely an Mg deficiency.

Regarding the gavita's, I've been emailing them regarding proper light heights in flowering and received something back yesterday. Basically, hang them at 18 inches in a 4 X 4 ft. room, and 20 inches in a 5 X 5 room to increase the spread a bit.

And to your question: "If he has no UV, would you say he might have his intensity too high for the distance from his plants, demanding more nutrients, showing as a deficiency?"

Yes, I'd agree. I also think CO2 plays a more important roll as the lights get closer......but that's a whole other issue.
 
Ah, gotcha, sounds like we're on the same page again then.


So what nutrient and light levels do you run to keep your plants nice and green throughout?

I'm sure our details are slightly different, but I'm still chasing perfection, so it's nice to know what works for others.


18-20 inches almost seems too close, but I haven't run the Gavitas, so maybe it's not. Is that recommendation for running them at full power? Good God, those things are pricey! I see the red diodes in pics- does it come with blue too?

I haven't felt the need to add UV to my LEDs yet, and haven't used either CO2 or HIDs in a few years, but I think I remember hearing about more benefits from CO2 as it gets hotter, so you're probably right.
 

sshz

Well-known member
420giveaway
I'll address your questions, but I'm going to add a link to my current grow at another site on *********. I'm new to this game, as it's my first LED grow, but I've been a large volume, commercial grower for over 30 years now.

Regarding fertilization, I was told to go lightly so I've been at around 30% less than with HPS. I was running at around 700 ppm watering every other day. But I added a dehumidifier, and it's drying my plants out quick so I've been watering almost every day so i dropped the ppm to 500 and have been flushing every 3rd or 4th watering.

Here's details on the Gavita's.......

https://gavita.com/retail/products/gavita-pro-line-led/gavita-pro-1700e-led-ml/

CO2 enables the plants to perform better, at a slightly hotter temperature. As the temps under HPS is ideal in the 74-78 degree range, with LED's they do better warmer (with CO2) around 82-84 degrees. See my thread below:

https://www.*********.com/threads/irie-seeds-orange-gasm-under-gavita-pro-1700e-leds.113333/

(********* should replace ************) or look under Grow Diaries and I'll show up on the 1st page.
 

Fixer

Active member
I'm running two tables which I'm feeding with the same fertigation system. I have not had any deficiency problems under HPS. When I covered the second table with LEDs I soon had purple stems, yellowing between the veins on old leaves, leading to necrosis. I added MG/Cal (that's what was handy) to the system and the problem was resolved. So I'm not saying that LEDs cause deficiencies but the plants seem to become deficient if you don't adjust your feed to accommodate the LED lights. I'm running two FGI Uniformity Pros which use OSRAM Osolon Hyper Red Square 660nm diodes. Maybe these are generating more red than the HPS lights.
 
Right on... I'd check the other site, but, well, censored... Maybe if you give the title, and hint at the other site name? Dunno...


So at 700, I think we're pretty close, but I haven't actually read levels lately. I may be running a little higher now, as I think when I was running Megacrop at 4g/gal, it was around 650ppm. Now I've been trying 5-5.5g/gal.

Reading their from their site, it looks like there are white and reds, but no UV on that Gavita. They also recommend "24-36 inches above the crop", but don't specify over what square footage.



It seems like they can definitely take more heat under LEDs though, thank God! My tent normally runs in the 90s, and I haven't seen any tacoing or other obvious signs of stress yet.
 

sshz

Well-known member
420giveaway
Even though there are no UV Led's on the Gavita's, it's generally accepted that these put off small amounts of UV under the blue spectrum. See below:

"LEDs typically have a tight spectral peak around the wavelength they are designed for, but even so, they can produce occasional UV photons. 450nm blue LEDs, in particular, can produce around 0.05% UV photons- one out of 2,000 photons they create is in the UV range."

And the Gavita's are heavy around the 450NM range.

Regarding my grow diary, do a google search for "sshz and Irie seeds Orange Gasm" and it will pop up at the top of the page.
 

sshz

Well-known member
420giveaway
The recommended height on the Gavita's is 24-36 inches in VEG and 18-20 inches in flowering, per their customer service people and sales distributors.
 
The recommended height on the Gavita's is 24-36 inches in VEG and 18-20 inches in flowering, per their customer service people and sales distributors.


Yeah, that makes more sense. I'll have to do a search for your diary and check it out!
 

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