Aero/Nutramist Tree

[foaf]

So I don't really know how this is gonna go, it's an experiment, but I have a good feeling about it.

I've grown 3 single trees in this space in the past couple of years, and they have done well. My last tree, an SSH, was the poorest yeilder, 2.5 lbs, and I attribute that to the strain but more to a failed plan for the roots. I had this tall green pipe as a DWC that time, and it ended up that the roots couldn't overcome the bubbles and get to the bottom. So, 2.5 lbs off of about 3.5 gallons of root volume. And they were brown tangled dreadlock roots.

So... Im concentrating on the roots, and that tall green chamber was begging to be converted to high pressure aero.

So here are the details.

-10" PVC schedule 40 pipe, 36" inside heigth.
-12 holes for nozzles, drilled and tapped for 3/4" NPT and with 3/4 to 1/2 pvc bushings solvent welded into each hole.
-1.2 GPH nylon nozzles with build in screens, from mrdrip. They are put into stainless nozzle mounts that I put together so that they can be easily changed during a grow, no matter how dense the roots get.
-120 psi pump with 100 psi cut out switch and RO accumulator tank.
-110v solenoid valve plugged into interval timer, 2 seconds on 10 minutes off.
-Nutramist system, piped into the pod and down a pvc rootscrog setup, different interval timer, 30 seconds on, 7 minutes off.
-Waterproof 12v fan blowing over a Koolance heat exchanger so I can air condition the pod, or heat.
-A big chiller that I had for dwc that recirulates water through the heat exchanger in the bottom of the pod
-21 x 85W CFL and 1000w HPS aircooled overhead ~2650 watts total
-Grow space is 3.5 x 4 feet x 10 feet tall, gets supply air for air conditioned space.
-Neville's Haze GHS Fem seed. Yes, one seed and I hope she's a girl.
-Flora Nova nutes with half a dose of Cal Mag Plus at total 650 ppm
-Drain to waste
-2 Carbon filters at top of space, 1 for air cooled light, and one other. Both on a little temperature controlled fan "dimmer" thing

 

[snoopytime]

Judging from your last one man, I would say you are fairly gifted in the 'space pod construction' department. Therefore, I predict a retardedly sick outcome . . yayyyy!

 

[fatigues]

You have my attention sir Subscribed!

 

[bendoslendo]

Can I please come live at your house? I'll organize your tubes/wires and dust your shelves!....no?.....ok

pvc rootscrog?

So you have 2 different timers for 2 different sprayer/mister systems?

 

[DIGITALHIPPY]

looks like a disaster.
but foaf knows his stuff
should be intresting.

is that serile enough?

 

[foaf]

looks like a disaster

lol... I totally agree. But riding a wild bull drunk sometimes turns out happy

So you have 2 different timers for 2 different sprayer/mister systems?

Yes. the current thought is that if its dripping down, then its redundant. So, the minimal time on the timer is about 1 -2 seconds, but it doesnt really matter because I get about 10 seconds anyway from the volume of water in the tubing and maybe in the valve body. I tried "drip free" nozzles, they have a pressure valve in them, but they ran even longer after the valve closed. The fog fills the pod in about 30 seconds, it does nothing in 2, so you have to have a different timer. 7 is the quickest cycle on my other timer. I have no idea how the two methods interact with the roots being done together. cheers

 

[foaf]

So this is the last time I can pull it out to look at the roots. The roots are starting to tangle in the pipe thing I put in there. They aren't as white and fuzzy as some aero pictures I've seen, but I'm not even sure that that appearence is a good thing. They are very transparent and delicate and smell fresh like water chestnut things from chinese food. I'm gonna tie down the lower branches now to direct them downward. I'm beginning with the Messenger spray this weekend and do it every 3 weeks as suggested. Topping this multiple times, it needs to be shorter and bushier for inside. So far so good.

 

[bendoslendo]

Read up on that messenger stuff, very interested. So your applying as a foliar? Not recommended to go in root zone?

Since Eden Bioscience is going out of business, does this mean it won't be available much longer? Might pick some up if you feel it helps.

 

[foaf]

I don't know about future availability of messenger, wormsway and others have plenty now. I looked over about 10 studies, and about half of them show significant increase in biomass total and fruit. The other half showed no benefit. Almost all were outdoors. For example, peaches got bigger but cotton didn't improve yield. Some of its benefits are thought to be an increase in disease resistance, but that wont help us indoor growers much. No study showed a decrease or problem, and the stuff is safe and you can spray it on even near harvest. It is applied as a foliar spray. I dont know if it will help and I doubt Ill be able to reach a valid conclusion even after this grow.

 

[foaf]

so a male fail 20x dissecting microscope with point and shoot aimed in lense.

I thought so a week ago and it became for sure as of last night. I still had a month of veg so it's not too bad. Male preflowers can be spotted earlier in my experience. I've already got another seed popping. It'll be ok.

 

[bendoslendo]

Sorry man! Thought you said it was a fem seed?

 

[foaf]

Ok, back on track with a femle this time. I'm topping her relentlessly to make it fill the volume above, instead of the very sparcely filled area from the ssh last time. Its making it take long to gain heigth, but I'm really not in any hurry. The only thing that I have added is two "flame defender" automatic fire suppressants. They are pretty cheap on ebay now. One in the electrical/water area and another over the grow space.

I also changed nutes from flora nova to GH Maxi Grow and 1/2 strength calmag run at about 700 ppm. The maxi grow seems more soluble, the flora nova has too many solids that I dont think I trust in aero.

 

[*mistress*]

happy tree gardening!

*edit*

maybe, mix maxi series 1-2hrs before apply, so it fully dissolves. & feed cal-mag separately.

 

[PetFlora]

Love the creativity. I think I can really simply it for you though. Check out m TAG journal

 

[foaf]

I think I can really simply it for you though.

Thanks Pet. I really prefer it complicated.

 

[redspaghetti]

any update foaf ????

 

[foaf]

So I have topped a bunch to give time to bush out. This sativa and the ssh wanted to be taller and lankier, but I want wide at the top eventually. I should be flipping in about two weeks, she is growing very fast now. I can't decide if I wanter a smaller, probably prettier plant and a more predictable result, or higher yeild. The real beauty of this goofy room is when it gets overfilled so I'll probably overveg this time and just cut away any stretch that gets too high. View from front and from above.

 

[foaf]

Ok, so this was an experiment and things have been a bit rocky this past month. I have learned quite a bit with this setup and I'm pretty sure that next grow will be better. That said, I should do well with this tree eventually, she still looks pretty good.

So first, I had a failure of my new interval timer, the ART-DNe timer by Custom Automated Products. It just got "stuck" in the off position for about 12 hours. The plant wilted pretty badly, but recovered in less than a day, several tips near the lights dried out but mostly I dont think any significant damage done. This proved that the aeromist sytems isnt enough to keep up with the water needs of the plant and doesn't serve as a safety backup.

Then growth stalled so I didn't flip the lights. Investigation showed that the roots had grown to cover the mist emitters and the whole system just wasnt working ouit. so.....

Plan B included securing the base of the plant and cutting the whole aero pipe system away and setting up a more roomy root space. I put a 28" water heater drip pan on the floor to drain, redid the emitters and then surrounded the aeroponic zone with sort of a shower curtain. It took about a week for the roots to go from orange and crowded to more aero looking and more healthy looking. I removed the nutramist system, worthless in this application in my assessment. I'll put gravel in the bottom of the drain pan today as the roots are almost touching the standing nute solution in the pan.

So now the plant is regaining vigor and once she is rapidly growing again Ill flip the lights. She has been stressed pretty badly by all of this, not to mention that Ive had to prune it back to avoid overgrowing.

So far have learned
1) nutramist isn't helpful
2) If one component in aero fails and your plant can suffer quickly, dont trust new interval timers. I still dont have a plan B for this but have bought a hopefully more reliable digital interval timer
3) Aero roots can not be allowed to grow near the emitters and still expect the roots to be aero-like.
4) You don't need a waterproof pod, you just need a catch pan and a shower curtain for aero, this allows you to more easily inspect the roots, evaluate and address emitter clogs, and potentiall adjust the placement of the emitters, and potentially cut back roots. I'm pretty excited by this different setup, all relying on drain to waste volumes being used. currently 4 seconds on 4 minutes off each emitter is a 0.9 GPH emitter.

 

[Lazyman]

Wow, cool ideas and tech man, good job!

 

[snoopytime]

Foaf, you are an awesome rocket scientist Bro! Sucks about the timer . . I have a Sentinel DRT-1, the thing is like pseudo-industrial, a verrrry reliable device and it was only $100 at a ripoff shop, online you can probly snag it for less. plus it has a photo-sensor, you can make it run in day, night, or 24hour and on or off can be 1 second to 24 hours