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    #16
    Originally posted by f-e View Post
    700 - 1200 is bright too fucking bright. 700 is going to be too much for any newbie. I would target 500 - 600 which will still put 18 in a meter. Going for gold on your first run will just lead to a fall. Though some sats will suck it up.

    The conversion from lux to ppfd might be about 65 but there is little point making the conversion. Just use it as is. 30,000 should be satisfactory for a first run. Enough to grow reasonable bud without lots of stress. 40,000 is very nice. 60,000 is shooting for gold.

    It's all in the pic I posted. No point me saying it a third time
    I didn't invent those numbers! I did forget that CO2 augmentation is necessary over 1000 umols. I run my light at 850-900 in bloom.

    Some people understand when you tell them,
    not to piss on an electric fence,
    others have to find out for themselves. ~ Im'one

    A good approach to just about anything in life is to hope for the best,
    but be prepared for the worst.

    Civilization is the history of conspiracy!
    What is civilization but, a conspiracy,
    for all of us to do better, working together!
    ~Snowden

    “The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience,
    but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.”


    sigpic

    May the fleas of a thousand camels infest
    the crotch of the person who screws up your day and,
    may their arms be too short to scratch..

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      #17
      Originally posted by f-e View Post
      700 - 1200 is bright too fucking bright. 700 is going to be too much for any newbie. I would target 500 - 600 which will still put 18 in a meter. Going for gold on your first run will just lead to a fall. Though some sats will suck it up.

      The conversion from lux to ppfd might be about 65 but there is little point making the conversion. Just use it as is. 30,000 should be satisfactory for a first run. Enough to grow reasonable bud without lots of stress. 40,000 is very nice. 60,000 is shooting for gold.

      It's all in the pic I posted. No point me saying it a third time
      I just checked with an old lumen meter and get 30000 to 45000 at bud level with lights turned all the way up. Wondering now why leaves are bleached, unless damage from first few days it was setup and they were lower. Will check in GG4 group if it is known to have problems with strong light.

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by f-e View Post
        700 - 1200 is bright too fucking bright. 700 is going to be too much for any newbie. I would target 500 - 600 which will still put 18 in a meter.
        Interesting, I'm starting to notice the same thing. I'm not sure there's much benefit to going above 600 umol/m2 unless you're using CO2 and/or chemical or hydro nutes. I've seen graphs showing a plateau in yield over 500 or 600 without added CO2. Especially with horticultural LED's which focus most of the light on red & blue compared to HID. Also tents with reflective walls will need less than open greenhouses. I'm not sure organic soil plants can keep up with super high light levels.

        I recently sucked up the $500 for the Apogee meter. It seems high but is actually not much compaired what I've spent on LED fixtures. I got tired of burning the plants as I moved them between veg & flower or different tents. Holding out the back of my hand turned out to be massively inaccurate! Very happy w/ the meter. Light shock can cause plants to look either hungry (yellowing leaves) or burnt (curling downward) and cause you to adjust nutes and create more problems.

        If your lights have different spectrums or you're moving plants between LED and HID it's even harder to tell how much PAR they're getting without the meter. It can take 2 or 3 weeks to slowly adjust the plants from a dimmer veg area to the full brightness of flowering.
        OG refugee

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          #19
          Originally posted by Loc Dog View Post
          I am going to have to get something. I will be dead before I do enough runs to tune it in properly with some way to measure the light intensity at tops. I have already ruined 3 months worth of work. Now confused if I should just get a cheap one, and use for ball parking, or buy an apogee which is calibrated against a reference light, but costs 3 times as much. Might just go back to HID.

          These were the ones I found for reasonable price, and more expensive one claims to do up to 700nm. I was told 720nm was only needed for signalling, and used 15 minutes after lights come on and 15 minutes before lights go off. I will have to see how much Vero 29;s have at that range.

          Found one from Photobio for $160 and one that sounds a little better for $190 from Lifees. Anybody have experience with these?
          My little $150 Photobio is my main tool. I really like it, and have no idea how to set a light without it. There is a short coiled cord, and a longer one that you can use as a remote. Look at the post I made in the LED section, see it in use.

          For example, I have the lights at the nursery at 250 umols at plant top - and they are not stretching between nodes, the stalk is no longer getting too long. This is on the 3rd set of leafs. That may even be too much light.

          Edit: after I typed I went back and saw Switcher's post. I agree, 240 may be too high for my plants right now. The light meter is my main tool. EC truncheon - don't need it. Ph , naw. The Co2 logger is also nice. BTW, there is a CO2 chart better than this one, but this is the general idea. Temperature also is a factor, and I bet humidity as well.

          Last edited by flylowgethigh; 02-15-2021, 04:23.
          ______________________________ __________________________
          Dr. Tuggle's Compound Syrup of Globe Flower

          https://youtu.be/x0BinEFCp38?t=74

          https://youtu.be/NUmIO_MG5IU?t=87

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            #20
            This website may help.

            Lighting Radiation Conversion
            Terpene Amplification

            Comment


              #21
              So why doesn't the new dual channel light controller I have adjust the power up and down with the CO2 level, from a baseline CO2 condition? Why isn't there a leaf temp sensor on the light looking down at the plants, and adjusting the power from that? Would come in handy if you had to be away for a while, and the plant stretched up to the light and was getting too hot. I should train my sleepy dawg to sleep near the tent air inlet.
              ______________________________ __________________________
              Dr. Tuggle's Compound Syrup of Globe Flower

              https://youtu.be/x0BinEFCp38?t=74

              https://youtu.be/NUmIO_MG5IU?t=87

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by flylowgethigh View Post
                My little $150 Photobio is my main tool. I really like it, and have no idea how to set a light without it.
                I'm almost done my 1st LED grow and could have use this to maximize things. I'm used to MH so changing to LED has a learning curve I'm finding.
                That being the LED's run cooler so it's harder to gauge how close to put them to the plants compared to MH. This cool tool will eliminate the
                guesswork out. Since it seems like a nice tool I just ordered a Photobio Advanced Quantum PAR Meter as well a few minutes ago.
                I paid just under $260 CDN taxes and shipping included. Small price compared to what I paid for my 2 SF4000 LED's and larger grow
                tent. The SF4000 LED's have dimmer knobs on them. So as you can imagine the light levels change and there's no way to guess
                what they are without a par meter when you mess with the light power like I do. lolz


                Terpene Amplification

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                  #23
                  Originally posted by troutman View Post
                  I'm almost done my 1st LED grow and could have use this to maximize things. I'm used to MH so changing to LED has a learning curve I'm finding.
                  That being the LED's run cooler so it's harder to gauge how close to put them to the plants compared to MH. This cool tool will eimininate the
                  guesswork out. Since it seems like a nice tool so I just ordered a Photobio Advanced Quantum PAR Meter as well a few minutes ago.

                  View Image
                  For how much?
                  sigpic
                  In volcanic soil we trust

                  Whether your checkin out bud porn or regular porn from 1975, you wont catch anyone trimming thier bush
                  BTW that pluton sucked. We grew it outside-looked awesome, smelled great, everything but when dried, it had 0% high.
                  I see it as a kind of wonder drug of our time - Dr.Lester Grinspoon
                  In 1895, ‘Arabs . . . Armenians
                  [and] Turks’ grew Cannabis indica in central California to supply hash
                  to compatriots in San Francisco, and to smoke ‘kiff’ themselves.
                  Additionally, the u.s. army planted
                  marijuana in Panama in the 1920s for testing its effects on soldiers
                  The Dutch paid the Khoisan in 1713 with drugs rather than
                  food, goods or cash.
                  For the purposes of this research, Roger Adams had obtained red oil extract of the plant legally from the United States Department of the Treasury

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                    #24
                    I bet plants used to growing in place like Afghanistan or Mexico can handle more light intensity than plants used to growing in Northern environments.
                    So growers may have to take that into consideration when trying new plants to maximize their yields and/or quality of their buds.
                    Terpene Amplification

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by flylowgethigh View Post
                      My little $150 Photobio is my main tool. I really like it, and have no idea how to set a light without it. There is a short coiled cord, and a longer one that you can use as a remote. Look at the post I made in the LED section, see it in use.

                      For example, I have the lights at the nursery at 250 umols at plant top - and they are not stretching between nodes, the stalk is no longer getting too long. This is on the 3rd set of leafs. That may even be too much light.

                      Edit: after I typed I went back and saw Switcher's post. I agree, 240 may be too high for my plants right now. The light meter is my main tool. EC truncheon - don't need it. Ph , naw. The Co2 logger is also nice. BTW, there is a CO2 chart better than this one, but this is the general idea. Temperature also is a factor, and I bet humidity as well.

                      View Image
                      I saw a professor of cannabis from a Utah university in one video say 3000 umol, in another video same guy said 1000 and pushing it 1500, and this chart says 500 at normal CO2 levels.

                      Guess I will shoot for 500 across canopy, and then slowly increase till I have problems. Really hate not using the lights to their optimum ability.

                      How do you maintain high CO2 levels, if continuously ventilating tent to keep heat and humidity down? Another issue is no natural gas connection, so will need to see if can be converted to LP.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by troutman View Post
                        I bet plants used to growing in place like Afghanistan or Mexico can handle more light intensity than plants used to growing in Northern environments.
                        So growers may have to take that into consideration when trying new plants to maximize their yields and/or quality of their buds.
                        Would really be problem with autoflowers, since half the genetics are used to extreme far north.

                        That meter is about $160 USD.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by Switcher56 View Post
                          I didn't invent those numbers! I did forget that CO2 augmentation is necessary over 1000 umols. I run my light at 850-900 in bloom.
                          Oh I know. It's a huge range. I see how tight your figures are in comparison.

                          I think 700 - 1200 might actually be for sodium light. Where I need loads more light for the same growth. I don't think photon flux density is the last word in lighting, when the energy they carry isn't equal. As an example, a blue photon carries 50% more energy than a red one, and is actually the only difference in conventional physics. While the orange photons of a sodium lamp don't do as much for the plant as the red one's from typical grow LED's.

                          This difference in ppdf requirements between lighting is very real and without being specific about light type a chart becomes quite useless.


                          I reckon a proper sized dog has to be worth 500 co2 points in a domestic situation. When I visit my meter tent the co2 generally goes past 1000. Just sat in my open-plan with the windows open a crack and the kitchen area extractor on, I see about 600ppm when outside is just over 400

                          I have often pondered over how many plant's would be symbiotic. My giving them co2 and them giving my oxygen. I know I sleep much better when the lights are on.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by Loc Dog View Post
                            Would really be problem with autoflowers, since half the genetics are used to extreme far north.

                            That meter is about $160 USD.
                            It could be that Autos suffer more and if you think about it that $160 USD could save you a lot in the long run.
                            Terpene Amplification

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by f-e View Post
                              Oh I know. It's a huge range. I see how tight your figures are in comparison.

                              I think 700 - 1200 might actually be for sodium light. Where I need loads more light for the same growth. I don't think photon flux density is the last word in lighting, when the energy they carry isn't equal. As an example, a blue photon carries 50% more energy than a red one, and is actually the only difference in conventional physics. While the orange photons of a sodium lamp don't do as much for the plant as the red one's from typical grow LED's.

                              This difference in ppdf requirements between lighting is very real and without being specific about light type a chart becomes quite useless.


                              I reckon a proper sized dog has to be worth 500 co2 points in a domestic situation. When I visit my meter tent the co2 generally goes past 1000. Just sat in my open-plan with the windows open a crack and the kitchen area extractor on, I see about 600ppm when outside is just over 400

                              I have often pondered over how many plant's would be symbiotic. My giving them co2 and them giving my oxygen. I know I sleep much better when the lights are on.
                              I hear you good buddy

                              For those that have followed my progress, I always finish off with... this is what works for me under my environmental conditions.

                              Wrt the numbers, I forgot where I got those. That being said, a neophyte needs a baseline for, where to start and go from there.

                              In this particular thread we are talking about PAR meters. Of course you can spend thousands of dollars on one, that may give you a BJ on the side, but is it necessary for a home grower? The answer is no. The meter for the avg dude is simply a tool that provides repeatability. If your meter says 597 umol and the neighbor's meter (expensive one) says 600 umol, isn't 597 close enough, when compared to a tape measure or the heat felt on the back of the hand? Both tools here (hand and tape) are guess work at best.

                              I have played with CO2 and because I didn't see a noticeable difference, quit the practice, for the time being. That being said I wasn't growing in a "sealed" room.

                              Some folks grow SCROG I don't like the method because it removes all flexibility, e.g on my hands and knees to water/feed etc... Simply not my cup of tea. More important with SOG/SCROG your girls are stuck in "that" spot, until they finish. Sure it gives you an even canopy of sorts but that may not be sufficient.

                              There is a lot of things that happen in the background e.g going by "pot weight" wrt when to water etc... I do not grow a specific strain at a time, usually 2. of course although I ensure the strains are compatible with each other, you get the odd one that will grow at a different rate, even of the same strain. I have pedestals that alleviates that problem.

                              The most important part in my setup, is the flexibility of having a free moving canopy/pots. I affords me what I call tent management:
                              • One ~ I rotate my plants daily, clockwise and back to front; and
                              • Two ~ Because I have a PAR meter, I know the light intensity at any point in my tent, I can strategically position each plant to get maximum lighting and penetration. e.g if the growth of that plant is uneven, the taller colas will be to the outside, while allowing the lower growth to face the inside.


                              (click to enlarge)
                              Notice the pedestal under the plant on the right, in place to even out the canopy.

                              Week 8 of bloom...

                              (click to enlarge)
                              The one on the far right was a girl that was 2 weeks late compared to the other of the same strain, I had 2 beans that didn't pop.

                              Although I have had great results using the manifold technique, my last run was disappointing. I had great results with my Dt, but the Bd was disappointing. Bd is also the strain that required 4 beans to get 2 plants. As I only have 1 bean left from that breeder, I won't be able to reevaluate whether it was the particular strain that didn't like being manifolded, or the particular beans I had on hand.

                              I learn every run I undertake and will rectify shortcomings but will only modify 1 thing maybe 2 at best, so I know what change did what etc...

                              IMHO you can't do that by winging it.

                              Some people understand when you tell them,
                              not to piss on an electric fence,
                              others have to find out for themselves. ~ Im'one

                              A good approach to just about anything in life is to hope for the best,
                              but be prepared for the worst.

                              Civilization is the history of conspiracy!
                              What is civilization but, a conspiracy,
                              for all of us to do better, working together!
                              ~Snowden

                              “The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience,
                              but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.”


                              sigpic

                              May the fleas of a thousand camels infest
                              the crotch of the person who screws up your day and,
                              may their arms be too short to scratch..

                              Comment


                                #30
                                The reason I am going to have individual scrogs is for the ease of access to the plants. I will only have front access in my 4x4s. I anticipate a real mess when the different strains are stretching and flowering.

                                You guys will forget that $160 you spent on that meter quickly. My other very handy tool is a Ph/moisture probe. I have one of these, and love it.

                                https://www.amazon.com/Gain-Express-...G/?tag=19gh-20

                                Anybody wanna buy a very slightly used Truncheon?
                                ______________________________ __________________________
                                Dr. Tuggle's Compound Syrup of Globe Flower

                                https://youtu.be/x0BinEFCp38?t=74

                                https://youtu.be/NUmIO_MG5IU?t=87

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