2000 plus budget medical grow need help

[cfltime]

Hello there. Its been a long time since I've been on this forum. It feels good to be back. I used to read and learn when I was younger. I am now a medical card holder in my state and am able to grow. 5 plants to be exact. So....I'm hoping I can get some help and advice from the fine folks here at IC.



I am investing in a killer system for A+ grade cannabis.

2000 to 2400 budget. I have a Ac infinity T6 inline fan so far. 402 CFM.
I intend on spending about 1400 on either a Gavita 1700e or Electric sky Es300. Two of those. 1400 either way.


Really my main questions is this. Im confused by the humidity temp thing. I understand I need 40-50 percent humidity for veg and flower. Closer to 60 with veg? Keep the temps at 75F. Ill be exhausting out my basement egress window. Custom cut hole in window. What size filter should I use? I also want to buy a Titan enviroment controller. So....I just hook up the humidifer to the controller, and the light? Add a couple fans in the tent and thats it? Also will have stink control.



Ive been waiting my whole life for this and its finally going to happen.
I cant wait to post a journal. Thank you!

 

[WaterFarmFan]

More details on your growing space? Size of whole room? How big is tent?

As far as temp and humidity go, basically you want it a bit higher in veg (60% is fine), but flower should be kept below 50% to prevent disease (bud rot). You will absolutely need a dehumidifier for night time, and a clean 70 pint used unit will do the trick. You need some kind of controller to turn on and off the dehumidifier, and you could just use the basic controller on the unit itself. AC unit can connect to controller as well. Even if legal, an appropriate sized Phresh carbon filter will make you a good neighbor.

The long and short of it is that you are at the mercy of your outdoor weather. If your climate is hot, then you will need strong AC. If wet, strong dehumidifier. If cold, heater. A controller makes it easier to manage it all by just setting temp and humidity levels for day and night.

As far as air flow, it is fine to exhaust outside (only since you are legal, as this can let those others know that you are dumping heat), but you have to replace the air exhausted with fresh air coming in. Is that air hot, cold, moist or dry? Automation is your friend since you have a decent budget. Personally, I like separate controllers for lights and environment.

Happy to answer any questions.

WFF

 

[WaterFarmFan]

I am a fan of Autopilot. The F60 has everything that you need. If you don't plan on adding co2 in a sealed room, then you do not need a controller with this feature as it adds a lot to price:

https://growershouse.com/controllers/l/autopilot

 

[WaterFarmFan]

Another note is your light. Those are nice! And Very Expensive! I like DE HPS but those LED run cooler and need less AC. Do you have plenty of power available (ie how many different 15 or 20 amp 120v circuits can you safely plug into)? Need power for light and environment controls. If you have power for a decent AC, then you could run a sealed room that does not vent outside. Easier to keep perfect environment if you are not constantly bringing in outside air. A+ takes a lot of work, but most of can be done with good automation.

It really depends on how hot your climate and how high your ceilings are, but I would personally spend your $1400 lighting budget on a $400 light and $1000 mini-split air conditioner for the space. You could also get a cheaper window AC or floor AC and run the exhaust out your window. You can run LED, CMH or HPS, but if your room gets too hot, too cold or too humid, you will NOT get A+.

Low humidity is generally not a problem, as the plants lose most of their water through transpiration in leaves during lights on, so this will naturally increase humidity. I think a humidifier is fine for veg but not flower - too many bad things can happen with excess moisture. Lower humidity also stresses the plants to produce more trichomes later in flower to protect plant. Below 25% is not good, but 40% is not bad at all. If you want to learn a little more about the proper range to keep your temps and humidity, read some on leaf VPD (vapor pressure deficit). Below is a chart that shows the ideal range for both. Basic version is lower temps can have lower humidity and higher temps can have higher humidity to remain in the perfect sweet spot for maximum vigor:

 

[Iamnumber]

vpd chart is good..

filter size depends on inline fan size / speed ( how much air in minute/hour .. Cubic Feet per Minute CFM is standard way to advertise this).


cfm of inline fan is minimum acceptable for carbon scrubber size.


size of inline fan depends on tent size or how much light (heat) is generated within tent.
Standard advice is to calculate size of tent (ft), multiply by 3 = size of CFM. .. not optimized but good first try or starting point.

 

[cfltime]

sorry I left out details of tent size. I was going to use a 4x4 tent. I wanted a 5x5 but I already bought the AC infinity inline fan. it has 402 CFM, apparently not enough for a 5x5. like 80 CFM off from what I need. I may just build a 4x4 space somehow. From wood or something. But, its in my basement. its finished and warm. but humidity is at 25 percent, according to my inline controller. 75 to 77 degrees.

 

[cfltime]

thank you for the advice and input.
i am def a fan of automation. i will probably buy a controller for the lights and fan. as well as the humidifier/dehumidifier. Fresh air would be brought in from the upstairs of the house. Is that ok? really digging the F60 autopilot for 187.00.

 

[flylowgethigh]

I am in the process of dialing-in a tent now. When there are not big plants in there, you have to provide the humidity. I have tee shirts hanging on the side wall, that are wet. As these dry they cool the air and release humidity. A drip waterer would help that process. This is a temporary measure, as the shirts have to be wet often, which requires opening the tent.

That T-6 fan controller knows one thing, and that is blowing air. Too hot and it blows, too cold - same. So the lung room has to have the air that will allow the fan controller to bring in what it needs, and make things better. Hot tent want cold air, and visa versa.

Example: I put a space heater fan by the tent air inlet last night, so if the tent needed heat it would run the fan and draw in the heat. The fan controller on low temp loop overshoots the desired temp (like it always does), so the high temp control loop starts, and it runs the fan more! Draws in hot air, and the fan tries harder. For that I will need a inkbird controller inside the tent, that turns on the heater when the temp is below my set point. If the temp is too high, the inkbird will not turn on the heater, and the fan will draw in ambient lung room air. I plan to make a inlet box with a heater, a S6 fan (running in conjunction with the T6, on the same controller, for the intake pressure, and an good air filter for the entrance.

Sorta complicated to automate, as the baseline in the lung room changes.

The other issue I see with the air is it has to be moving through the tent all the time. The AC Infinity fans controllers do not have a min speed setting when operating in Auto, so if the conditions remain good in the tent, the fan won't run, no air will be exchanged. This has me wanting an in-line duct fan close to the exhaust, that I can set at a low speed to always be drawing fresh air into the tent. That would be pulling air through the T-6/S-6 fans while they are idle.

 

[f-e]

I wouldn't treat fan sizing as gospel. Especially since LED's came along. Heat will leave a tent by other means, they are only thin and a basement sounds like a cool place. The water vapour removal requirement isn't great. I have fans that are said to be alright, and only have them running at 10% of their volumetric capacity. That's to keep the RH down and some turbulence within the filters. Temperature isn't what they compete against. The heat from LED units just floats up and out without nearing the plants.

I have run a 6" in a 1.2 x 2.4 many times with HID's. You just need good air handling procedures. To get it in below and up through the canopy, past the lights and out. With clean simple duct runs and ample sized filters.

If you move from a 330mm long filter to a 630mm long filter, A typical mixed flow fan will shift 50% more air.
If instead, you were to double filter with a pair of 330s to get a 100mm bed, a mixed flow can fail to work.

There are many variables. I would get the 600 long filter and stick with the 1.4m plan. I wouldn't use the 300 at all with a mixed flow. You can but it's starting to throttle the fan at higher velocities.

 

[wunderbra]

@cfltime Too much too soon is perhaps the route to ruin. Its better to be careful and use stealth or the hobbys ruined. Slow down a bit. See my post here. https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=9126722&postcount=481 All you need is a Maxibright 200w Blue CFL (or perhaps a Maxibright 200w Dual-spectrum CFL), a well drained pot with some good quality peat or mainly peat mix (not ghastly cheap compost), and 10 seeds. Anything 50/50 Indica/Sativa, though extremely short growing Indicas may suit you better. Water by hand. Heh. Best wishes.

 

[WaterFarmFan]

sorry I left out details of tent size. I was going to use a 4x4 tent. I wanted a 5x5 but I already bought the AC infinity inline fan. it has 402 CFM, apparently not enough for a 5x5. like 80 CFM off from what I need. I may just build a 4x4 space somehow. From wood or something.

If you start down this path, that fan will be the first of many that you own. Like F-E said, you will not know how much heat you need to remove until you get your light going. LED produces less heat than HID.

If you do not already have a tent, and you are committed to running the space for many cycles, then you should just build out a 5x5 room, which is perfect that Gavita LED, from 2x4s and radiant barrier material (https://www.homedepot.com/p/Reflect...-Reflective-Insulation-Roll-BP48100/202092205). Build your frame, staple insulation to frame and seal all seams with foil tape. You need to run 2x4s across the top to hang your light and carbon filter and fans. One exhaust port on the top side for ducting to pull air from carbon filter out of grow space. One or two ports on the bottom that have DIY HEPA filters to purify air coming in. Fan will create negative pressure which helps significantly with smell.

But, its in my basement. its finished and warm. but humidity is at 25 percent, according to my inline controller. 75 to 77 degrees.

I assume you have those temps and conditions because you running HVAC in the living space. Nothing wrong with that all. As noted, you will be using the conditioned atmosphere of house as a lung room. Instead of placing AC, heat and humidity tools inside the grow space, they are integrated as part of your lung system.

There are many ways you could go here, but it all depends on how much air you want to exchange with your basement and the rest of the house. Just know that any air that you exhaust from basement and pull from main house will cause outside air to likely enter living space. So, would then have to run main system HVAC to cool or heat new air coming in. You also have to plan for summer months when the conditions will be very different.

An alternative would be to treat only the basement as a lung room (ie don't pull any air from upstairs). But, you would likely need dedicated heating and cooling devices just for that space. The weather changes all the time and automation will save your ass and help to keep your plants healthy.

Does your basement have independent heating and cooling controls and systems from the main house? If so, it is a plus to manage just basement as lungroom.

 

[WaterFarmFan]

thank you for the advice and input.
i am def a fan of automation. i will probably buy a controller for the lights and fan. as well as the humidifier/dehumidifier. Fresh air would be brought in from the upstairs of the house. Is that ok? really digging the F60 autopilot for 187.00.

I have some older Autopilot DECs, which are basically the same as F60. It has a probe with a long wire that you hang inside your grow space at canopy level. So, you get temp and humidity readings at the plants, but the controller is outside in basement, where you have heating, cooling and humidity tools plugged in your lung room. Since your fan and filter combo in grow space never turns off, you are constantly bringing in properly conditioned air. It is depends if it is cheaper to cool and heat your whole house vs just the lung room basement.

 

[Fixer]

I would worry more about de-humidification than fan capacity. I just switched over completely to LEDs and because the room temp needs to be higher I've maxed out my dehumidifier. Also what I thought I'd save in electric usage with the more efficient LEDs I'm now using to heat the room up to 84F. I'm in a cold climate so you may not run into this. If you can control the humidity level in your tent you won't have to worry as much about evacuating air from it. Also consider Forever Green Indoors Uniformity Pro 640 or Sinowell's Flexstar line if you decide to go LED panel. They were both less expensive than the Gavita 1700e last time I looked.

 

[flylowgethigh]

If you start down this path, that fan will be the first of many that you own. Like F-E said, you will not know how much heat you need to remove until you get your light going. LED produces less heat than HID.

If you do not already have a tent, and you are committed to running the space for many cycles, then you should just build out a 5x5 room, which is perfect that Gavita LED, from 2x4s and radiant barrier material (https://www.homedepot.com/p/Reflect...-Reflective-Insulation-Roll-BP48100/202092205). Build your frame, staple insulation to frame and seal all seams with foil tape. You need to run 2x4s across the top to hang your light and carbon filter and fans. One exhaust port on the top side for ducting to pull air from carbon filter out of grow space. One or two ports on the bottom that have DIY HEPA filters to purify air coming in. Fan will create negative pressure which helps significantly with smell.



I assume you have those temps and conditions because you running HVAC in the living space. Nothing wrong with that all. As noted, you will be using the conditioned atmosphere of house as a lung room. Instead of placing AC, heat and humidity tools inside the grow space, they are integrated as part of your lung system.

There are many ways you could go here, but it all depends on how much air you want to exchange with your basement and the rest of the house. Just know that any air that you exhaust from basement and pull from main house will cause outside air to likely enter living space. So, would then have to run main system HVAC to cool or heat new air coming in. You also have to plan for summer months when the conditions will be very different.

An alternative would be to treat only the basement as a lung room (ie don't pull any air from upstairs). But, you would likely need dedicated heating and cooling devices just for that space. The weather changes all the time and automation will save your ass and help to keep your plants healthy.

Does your basement have independent heating and cooling controls and systems from the main house? If so, it is a plus to manage just basement as lungroom.

Amen to the fans. I am using a bedroom as the lung room, and have put a HEPA filter on the door, so i can shut it and still draw air in to the room. I use 3M 1900 house filter elements as "HEPA".

I have 4x4 Gorilla tents. Their air inlets also let the light out, or in. In my case I could only use one inlet. One isn't enough for a T6 at full speed. Temporarily, I am using a manual control old T-6" fan to push air into the tent so it flows all the time, and dammit the controller won't let you set a min speed on AUTO, like you can set the max speed. So I need some way to make sure air flows.

In AUTO, when the conditions are satisfied the fan is stopped. No air is flowing through the tent.

If you vent to outside, you may want to put in a one-way dampener. I did that, as well as an exterior fan/vent hood to make it look legit. On the highest speed, the wall fan will pull air from the tents nicely, but it is loud. Medium speed isn't fast enough, so I need a better way to control that. I have two tent exhausts going into a wye plenum, and the exit fan helps ensure the tents aren't cross flowing.

Yeah, like the man said... fans.

I had initially wanted to vent my tents to the attic, but consideration of the moisture involved stopped that idea. Houses breathe, and I like to control where the house return comes from. Drawing from a window is always better than what is under the house in the damp crawl space. How much air does a fireplace pull from a house?

Take into consideration expansion of capabilities, when you get the electrician and vent guys in. Nursery, clone tent, etc... Tell them the power is for a freezer, and the outlet should be 20 amps (#12). I had two, one per tent put in, as well as more 4 gang 110volt outlets. All those fans and controllers will need outlets. I made a control center in an adjacent closet to try to keep the tents looking clean from outside.

Stealth... Kill the light leaks. Gorilla tape is over the Gorilla logo. Maybe get a "Whirlpool" or "Frigidaire" logo put on. Controls are somewhere else hidden, like inside a metal cabinet next to the tent where you store the supplies.

 

[flylowgethigh]

So what I am encountering is the AC ducts in the room get a "boost" from the tent fans pulling in air and sending it outside, and the heated air accumulates in the room, raising the temps. The alternative is to leave the floor registers closed, and accept a lower tent temp when the lights are off.

One other problem is using a fan to pump air into the tent while the inside fan is trying to take it out, is the filter and restrictions. The fans in a dual fan AC Infinity system has to be the same size, and the one inside the tent has a filter restricting the flow. The outside fan has less resistance, and the tent will balloon because the outside fan is doing more, making positive pressure. Tents leak, and that higher pressure inside is sending tent air into my room. A T4 inlet fan with a T6 outlet may work, but their controllers won't allow that. Maybe another fn in-line after the tent fan is needed, to add flow OUT.