Does LEDs really yield the same as their "HPS equivalent"

[Dion]

What I meant was... everything else being equal(temp, humidity, CO2) Except for the light above them!

I think what he means is, in terms of ambient temperatures, a hps room is too cold for LEDs, while a LED room is too hot for HPS. That's why it's hard to do a fair side-by-side. To extrapolate, the variable that actually matters is leaf temperature, not ambient temperature.

run heavy AC and the leds will look like shit, run no AC and the HPS side will look like shit.

Speaking of which, you might end up saving even more money on the environmental control than on the creation of photons. It truly is a no-brainer to use LEDs (caveat:
in most climates)

Yeah, exactly

the led side will be motabolizing slower and photosynthesis will slow down as well if U run it per ur usual hps style.

 

[Horselover Fat]

I think what he means is, in terms of ambient temperatures, a hps room is too cold for LEDs, while a LED room is too hot for HPS. That's why it's hard to do a fair side-by-side. To extrapolate, the variable that actually matters is leaf temperature, not ambient temperature.

run heavy AC and the leds will look like shit, run no AC and the HPS side will look like shit.

Speaking of which, you might end up saving even more money on the environmental control than on the creation of photons. It truly is a no-brainer to use LEDs (caveat:
in most climates)

Yes, and I think there will be differences due to the fact that the fluence should be hung at 6" and hps has to stay further. Same grow style might not be optimal for both. There are so many variables that it really isn't easy to compare them. That said I'm loiking forward to seeing the grow. Should be interesting.

 

[chilliwilli]

Would a room with one side hps and one side led be the best shoot for a side by side? So the led can use the extra heat from the hps and the hps has the extra room to distribute the heat while overall temps humidity and co2 are the same for both grows? And to compare go for max gpw possible no matter what grow style.

 

[Chevy cHaze]

Would a room with one side hps and one side led be the best shoot for a side by side? So the led can use the extra heat from the hps and the hps has the extra room to distribute the heat while overall temps humidity and co2 are the same for both grows? And to compare go for max gpw possible no matter what grow style.

From the top of my head I'd say No...
For a true side by side you'd want identical plants (clones) and identical habitat parameters (grow medium, container size, nutes, ambient rh and temp) but separated from each other so they're isolated under exactly the same growing conditions minus the light.And that's where the issues start as you will want to supplement Ca and Mg for most plants under LEDs etc...
Hard to do but I guess if you can duplicate parameters for both grows.
Since HID lights will always run hotter it will be incredibly hard to create stable and identical growing conditions...
Maybe an idea could be to toss the idea to create identical temperature and rh by going for the same VPD instead? The same vapor pressure differential can be had in cool temps with lower rh and hot temps with higher rh...
Or am I fundamentally wrong here?
CC

 

[Sunshineinabag]

Yeah, exactly

the led side will be motabolizing slower and photosynthesis will slow down as well if U run it per ur usual hps style.

I've never run hids w/o cooltubes or airflow..good fans make needing ac obsolete one would think. I've never grown Indoor bigger then 3000 watts and I'm in northern vt which makes temp regulations as easy as opening a window....by that I mean we reach 85-90 maybe 60-90 days a yr

 

[Sunshineinabag]

Yes, and I think there will be differences due to the fact that the fluence should be hung at 6" and hps has to stay further. Same grow style might not be optimal for both. There are so many variables that it really isn't easy to compare them. That said I'm loiking forward to seeing the grow. Should be interesting.

MY old computer is kaput but I had me nice medicine man cultivars growing INTO and around my kooltubes like baby baboons cling to momma

 

[Bio boy]

yes - they will grow more for less
less heat less wattage more efficiency

roll your own strip lights for .5$ watt or spend 1+$ watt on the same thing in fancy cases/heatsinks

you can get by with 25w sft, but id shoo for 35-40 w/sqft in practice

you will run hotter rooms (80-85F) because they dont respire as much as hps

Dont know what your plannin with all that light boyd but if i was u id get ur crocadile huntin hide stompin ass out before you blow that shit up??

 

[oldschoolnitro]

LED are far more flexible in their application which can result in much higher overall productivity, especially apparent in smaller odd shaped grow rooms .. Myself I am seeing a 250% increase in production over HID with half the power draw.. my room is long and narrow with a lower ceiling

 

[sshz]

4 X 4 ft. sq, under 1 Gavita............ with about 4 1/2 weeks to go.

I'd be amiss not to mention how important defoliation is when using LED's........ the room you see above was not topped or pruned other than some lollipopping, and the branches all seem to elongate to the same length. But the key for supreme bud growth is to remove many of the leaves blocking all the branches and bud sites. I've gone into great detail in my threads on T H C Farmer about this, and I'm guessing that's why my last thread had over 30,000 hits. My current thread there is going to blow by that number before the crop above is finished.

The new plan is to add some UVB to the room, which should increase THC production around 26% (at least that what studies show) and I'm currently figuring out what fixtures to buy and how/where to hang them.

 

[TdotGonG]

Gavita just announced a 1:1 LED. CT1930E. 780w. 1930umol. Let's see how the price is.



https://gavita.com/retail/products/gavita-pro-line-led/gavita-ct-1930e-led/#product_more_info




The China quantum's felt like a waste of money, So I went DE. 1000W DE in the 5x5 A-Frame tent hung at the very top, and my plants are stressed as hell. Had to order 600w/750w lamps to cut down on output. Doubt a 600+w LED unit would do the same. as for heat. Yea less watts means less btu's. Fact is though, with current market LED's. You need more of them to equalize a DE's penetration. in term adding more wattage than you would need in a DE room. Thus negating any positive affects the LEDhas, which would also INCREASE COSTS, by adding btu's to the room...this LED market has been convoluted as hell for years. Hopefully Gavita can change my opinion on LED tech once the ct1930e is released. until then I'll stick to DE.

 

[sshz]

That light was announced about a week or two ago.......it's meant to replace a 1000 hps, as it's a much smaller sized unit than what I have, the 1700e. At around $1300+, they are not cheap.

With HPS, I was averaging around 65 oz per two 1000 watts bulbs. With two Gavita's, I'm averaging 106 oz and using over 700 less watts.

 

[sshz]

The price is around $1300........

 

[f-e]

$2600 sounds like a lot, but if you get 40 ounces more, then they only need to be worth $65 each to entirely pay for your new lighting in one hit.

50 a light is over 2g a watt. I'm not there yet, but still the investment came straight back.

 

[Storm Shadow]

sshz.. can you post a pic of a 2 gram a watt canopy.. thats a huge yield with 700 less watts... ive seen u post pics b4.. but they didnt look like it was 5lbs +

 

[sshz]

I got 6 lbs., 5 oz my first grow under the two gavita's.......I believe it was 2.3 GPW, about as high as you find. Under 1290 watts, it's actually amazing.

One pic is from the Orange Gasm room, my last grow. The other pic is Sweet Zombie, my current grow. The Orange Gasm had a few weeks to go in that pic, the Sweet Zombie has around 5 more weeks.

If you want to find the entire grow, do a google search for "sshz and orange gasm"......remember too, you are only looking at 1/2 the room in both pics, there's another side that looks exactly the same in both pic's. There's actually video's of the room in the thread, that will give you a much better idea of what's up in there.

 

[sshz]

And delivered, both LED's cost me around $2850......a ton of money. But rest assure, going from a 65 oz average to 106 oz- it paid for itself numerous times in just one grow. I don't think I'll get to 106 oz this time, as Sweet Zombie (95% indica) doesn't grow as large as the Orange Gasm (85% sativa), but still, I'll get near 90 oz I'm guessing.

And yes, just checked my numbers.....2968 total grams divided by 1290 watts= 2.3 gpw.

And yes again, I get top dollar for my stuff- 250 to 300 depending on how much you buy. Most of my customers are professional people, who can readily afford to buy the best around.

 

[sshz]

blob:https://www.*********.com/9c21a126-a3f0-4e12-8a1e-128cfa0654b3

A video of the entire room, insert t-h-c-f-a-r-m-e-r............

 

[TdotGonG]

On paper the yield is nice. But how's resin quality? I'm just not convinced yet. Also financing a grow at 1300$ a light is brutal. Variability of running them at that cost in business is just not worth it. let a lone joe blow grower guy. to many variability's. Need more development. I'll purchase a Gavita ct1900e when they come out to test it. Fingers crossed it changes my opinion.

 

[sshz]

Overall resin and quality were superior to most everything I’ve done under hps, and I’ve been growing large scale since 1988. I think adding uvb will only make things that much better too. Nothing I can say will convince you, but numerous people in my thread received some of it, and they all thought it was incredible if that means anything.......

 

[f-e]

On paper the yield is nice. But how's resin quality? I'm just not convinced yet. Also financing a grow at 1300$ a light is brutal. Variability of running them at that cost in business is just not worth it. let a lone joe blow grower guy. to many variability's. Need more development. I'll purchase a Gavita ct1900e when they come out to test it. Fingers crossed it changes my opinion.

You don't have to buy Gavita. They use the same parts as we can all get. You don't actually need to spend half that much. My 720w of actual LED power or 780w of ballast consumption set me back ~ $500

Resin production seems unaffected. More flavour though, due to the cooler plants