Does LEDs really yield the same as their "HPS equivalent"

[sshz]

I agree.......... cheap, no name diodes too. You get what you pay for.

 

[PizzaMan5000]

Are you sure that par meter was on the correct scale? Those ppfd levels seem impossible from that light, given the specs.

I think so, we tested a few known draws on the power meter, and tested a kessil "90w" at ~70w iirc, and I believe the kessil broke 2,000 par, but on a very focused spot.

The meter is specific for LED's I guess, my friend did it all with his laptop. I kept saying "I'm DR. Bruce Bugby with Apogee Instruments" the whole time though.

What I was most impressed by was ~600par at 6" to the side but only 2" lower than the light. For a misjudged micro grow etc.

Well the lights are supposed to be 10w each, I'm getting 2w by my math, on "double chip" diodes. Disappointed with the wattage, impressed with the par nonetheless.

It says keep it 18" above the canopy, and that's not true. I think it's got a sweet spot of 6-12" from the light.

Only had them a few weeks though, can't speak too soon I guess.

 

[Joint Lock]

I think so, we tested a few known draws on the power meter, and tested a kessil "90w" at ~70w iirc, and I believe the kessil broke 2,000 par, but on a very focused spot.

The meter is specific for LED's I guess, my friend did it all with his laptop. I kept saying "I'm DR. Bruce Bugby with Apogee Instruments" the whole time though.

What I was most impressed by was ~600par at 6" to the side but only 2" lower than the light. For a misjudged micro grow etc.

Well the lights are supposed to be 10w each, I'm getting 2w by my math, on "double chip" diodes. Disappointed with the wattage, impressed with the par nonetheless.

It says keep it 18" above the canopy, and that's not true. I think it's got a sweet spot of 6-12" from the light.

Only had them a few weeks though, can't speak too soon I guess.

How are them kessils i know they make a awesome product for reef aquariums . These are made for aquariums not growing as i know of

 

[roybart]

(24Red + 5Blue + 2White + 2Warm White + 2IR + 1UV)


That seems a lot of red??
https://www.waveformlighting.com/horticulture/convert-lumens-to-ppf-online-calculator


if these are 2400 lumens the the umols are about 60

 

[PizzaMan5000]

(24Red + 5Blue + 2White + 2Warm White + 2IR + 1UV)


That seems a lot of red??
https://www.waveformlighting.com/horticulture/convert-lumens-to-ppf-online-calculator


if these are 2400 lumens the the umols are about 60

Maybe per reflector?
Idk, we tested it with a $500 apogee meter. Had 1,900par at 6". My friend has coral so he has some fancy stuff, that's why we tested it against his kessils. He also has a power supply with a usage meter on it, that's how we tested the wattage. I bet the fan is only 5-6w. Like a slow computer fan.

I had tip burn on ~3w old seedlings with this style of UFO in the past at like 12" and after research, found them for $16-20 on Amazon.

He also has doubts and interest in the spectrum and quality of light.

His kessils have fancy optics. The color is mixed, and "leaves" out of a 1" hole. No streaks of one color or the other, very nice.
The ufo projects rays of red, blue, greenish, at the extremes of it's projection angle, or in shadows. Looks like light through a prism. More pink/white overall and less purple than many blurple lights I have seen.
The plants' colors look close to normal under it, however.

I have seen people take similar lights, and screw individual lenses/reflectors to make them throw ~1,900par at 18" or something, but a narrow angle.
I just wanna run four to six, with the fans sucking instead of blowing, and jam them in a dresser.

My buddy just bought a couple, and I have two more coming. I'll keep ya posted on how they flower... Though I'm a bit ghetto right now; obviously!

But yeah, the meter was set properly I think. I believe touching the bulb on brand new t5 6,500k grow bulbs, it was like 730 or 830 par on the same meter. About 650 at 1".

 

[Horselover Fat]

Maybe per reflector?
Idk, we tested it with a $500 apogee meter. Had 1,900par at 6". My friend has coral so he has some fancy stuff, that's why we tested it against his kessils. He also has a power supply with a usage meter on it, that's how we tested the wattage. I bet the fan is only 5-6w. Like a slow computer fan.

I had tip burn on ~3w old seedlings with this style of UFO in the past at like 12" and after research, found them for $16-20 on Amazon.

He also has doubts and interest in the spectrum and quality of light.

His kessils have fancy optics. The color is mixed, and "leaves" out of a 1" hole. No streaks of one color or the other, very nice.
The ufo projects rays of red, blue, greenish, at the extremes of it's projection angle, or in shadows. Looks like light through a prism. More pink/white overall and less purple than many blurple lights I have seen.
The plants' colors look close to normal under it, however.

I have seen people take similar lights, and screw individual lenses/reflectors to make them throw ~1,900par at 18" or something, but a narrow angle.
I just wanna run four to six, with the fans sucking instead of blowing, and jam them in a dresser.

My buddy just bought a couple, and I have two more coming. I'll keep ya posted on how they flower... Though I'm a bit ghetto right now; obviously!

But yeah, the meter was set properly I think. I believe touching the bulb on brand new t5 6,500k grow bulbs, it was like 730 or 830 par on the same meter. About 650 at 1".

Why do you want to use those ufos instead of something more efficient?

 

[PizzaMan5000]

Why do you want to use those ufos instead of something more efficient?

I ain't buying nice lights for a while. Maybe build some, someday. As of now, they work with my grow box which is under 36" high inside. I'm selecting clones for tiny cola-only plants, essentially 12/12 from roots. Not sure it's worth bothering yet.

My friend has the kessils and the apogee stuff, not me. I tend to cheap out or buy used.

Maybe down the road I could solder in something better?

Is there anything affordable that would be more efficient?

 

[Horselover Fat]

I ain't buying nice lights for a while. Maybe build some, someday. As of now, they work with my grow box which is under 36" high inside. I'm selecting clones for tiny cola-only plants, essentially 12/12 from roots. Not sure it's worth bothering yet.

My friend has the kessils and the apogee stuff, not me. I tend to cheap out or buy used.

Maybe down the road I could solder in something better?

Is there anything affordable that would be more efficient?

Those are probably very inefficient. A bridgelux eb strip build would be cheap and efficient, but even screw in led bulbs are probably more efficient. Doesn't mean they grow better, but you get more light per watt and thus more bud per watt. I'm just guessing at the efficiency of the ufos, but similar fixtures have not done well on tests.

 

[indagroove]

I ain't buying nice lights for a while. Maybe build some, someday. As of now, they work with my grow box which is under 36" high inside. I'm selecting clones for tiny cola-only plants, essentially 12/12 from roots. Not sure it's worth bothering yet.

My friend has the kessils and the apogee stuff, not me. I tend to cheap out or buy used.

Maybe down the road I could solder in something better?

Is there anything affordable that would be more efficient?

I guess that depends on what your idea of affordable is. Prices have definitely come down on decent LED boards these days.

 

[PizzaMan5000]

Those are probably very inefficient. A bridgelux eb strip build would be cheap and efficient, but even screw in led bulbs are probably more efficient. Doesn't mean they grow better, but you get more light per watt and thus more bud per watt. I'm just guessing at the efficiency of the ufos, but similar fixtures have not done well on tests.

I didn't really factor efficiency in, I was really worried about PAR or watts per diode. I was under the impression that was where the density etc comes from.
I'm actually disappointed in the wattage per diode. I was hoping for 3w+ each.

 

[Horselover Fat]

I didn't really factor efficiency in, I was really worried about PAR or watts per diode. I was under the impression that was where the density etc comes from.
I'm actually disappointed in the wattage per diode. I was hoping for 3w+ each.

Leds don't have a fixed power at which they should be operated. The more they heat up the less light they produce per watt (the Watt rating for a led is the upper limit where the manufacturer thinks cooling is feasable). This means it's better to have more diodes run softer. I'm running four boards with 308 lm301b each to reach very high efficacy. The same ammount of light could be produced with just two boards and stay within spec, but I really wanted a roof of light for my 2x4.

 

[chilliwilli]

Leds don't have a fixed power at which they should be operated. The more they heat up the less light they produce per watt (the Watt rating for a led is the upper limit where the manufacturer thinks cooling is feasable). This means it's better to have more diodes run softer. I'm running four boards with 308 lm301b each to reach very high efficacy. The same ammount of light could be produced with just two boards and stay within spec, but I really wanted a roof of light for my 2x4. View Image

nice man

are you happy with the yield? what spectrum are these?

was looking on alibaba the last weeks and i'm a little confused by the different kind of boards.
yours with lm301b or with lm301h only are cheaper than the ones with added cree 660nm chips. but the cree should add a nice red spectrum.

my plan is to light about 3 x 5 foot with 3 ~240w quantum boards dimmed to 200w each. with the lm301x it should be around 350 bucks with the added cree about 500.

 

[Horselover Fat]

nice man

are you happy with the yield? what spectrum are these?

was looking on alibaba the last weeks and i'm a little confused by the different kind of boards.
yours with lm301b or with lm301h only are cheaper than the ones with added cree 630nm chips. but the cree should add a nice red spectrum.

my plan is to light about 3 x 5 foot with 3 ~240w quantum boards dimmed to 200w each. with the lm301x it should be around 350 bucks with the added cree about 500.

That was accidental one plant one pound

They are 3500 k. You get higher efficacy with the deep reds. I thought the added reds are expensive and decided that I can add them later if I want to.

I think you will have a good level of light at 600w. I run half that and you have twice the area.

 

[chilliwilli]

Thx man.

Think these will be my xmas present to me

https://kingbriteled.en.alibaba.com/productgrouplist-817095020/LM301H_CREE_XP_E2_660nm.html?spm=a2700.icbuShop.98.17.546437ca03hCni

 

[Sunshineinabag]

Are you sure that par meter was on the correct scale? Those ppfd levels seem impossible from that light, given the specs.

This has all been done before as well. That's why I own three sf4000$
The umol is nice .......whatever keeps her jars full

 

[CaptainDankness]

Sure the high end LED's might be better than HPS, but the price is what gets me.

Also if I was that concerned with grams per watt, I'd be trying to copy Heath Robinson, seen him get over 2 grams per watt with a 600w HPS vertical grow. I've never had enough ambition to copy him though. Building a round grow room sounds tedious.

 

[oldschoolnitro]

I use home made LEDS from Photon solutions and am seeing over 4lbs per 1000 watts

 

[John LOQUE]

I use home made LEDS from Photon solutions and am seeing over 4lbs per 1000 watts

Shit! :jawdrop:
For which area?

 

[Chevy cHaze]

Sure the high end LED's might be better than HPS, but the price is what gets me.

Also if I was that concerned with grams per watt, I'd be trying to copy Heath Robinson, seen him get over 2 grams per watt with a 600w HPS vertical grow. I've never had enough ambition to copy him though. Building a round grow room sounds tedious.

Hmmm not sure about that high end statement... In my experience even a intermdiate grower with cheapo LEDs will crush the results of a intermediate HPS grower in terms of grams per watt. Most likely also in the resin/ frost department.
I'm saying intermediate because to get the most out of LEDs you need a bit of experience in certain grow techniques like scrogging and supercropping.
Unless you live in a country with extremely low energy costs and heat is not a problem, then LEDs have bypassed HID lights a while ago... I mean look at the SIL growers' threads here on IC.

My 5cts as someone who's familiar with growing under both types of lights.
CC

 

[sshz]

What people seem to be missing is in the high end LED's, you can recoup your outlay for the better lights in just one grow. I spent $2800 for 2 Gavita's, and went from 66 oz under HPS to 106 oz in my first grow.