2x3meter, 15 plant, 1800watt cheesey scrog

[hazy]

Howdy Tokesome. I hope it's all getting better. Freaky crystals, might have something to do with your def problems.
Hey guys, SM90 about 3-5ml per gallon will take care of the creepy crawlys. Gnats too. You only need to use it a few times.

Hey original blues, i'm real sorry, I didn't mean to rep you down. a box popped up saying thanks for deducting from your rep. Usually the option for + rep is default picked, but this time I guess not? Might have something to do with this delayed reaction mouse movement i've got going on. Gave you a thumbs up to try and make up for it. I was just trying to say yeah, the mag sulphate will work fine. I rarely use calcium, I like to have it separate if i need it.

 

[original Blues]

tokesome: The cuts are coming throu at the mo feeding 4ml/ltr rizotonic mixed with the bottled water there in small 3inch square pots with coco getting 20ml per day. I am going to be very carefull to feed the right amount as i reckon i may have been over watering the last ones

the extraction im gonna keep a very close eye on but using air colled tubes or hoods are great especialy with low height.
I had to get a heater as my day temps where around 25c night droping to 10-13 way to much from what i have been reading a ideal 21c droping to 17-18c i think an ideal range is 8c I had the heater on a timer to come on only at night worked a treat steady min 18 max 24 now.

the plants are defo in the pipe line I have 13 out of the propogator and 17 in the propogator at the mo I have 19 cuts for a pal should be done by mid week then i have to refill another 36 cuts so Im aiming to have all cuts ready and potted a week from tuesday/wednesday.
Which means i will have the room fully built kitted out and tested i seen a thread somewhere ages ago where the guy or gal had set up all the drippers got a load of beer bottles to match the number of drip lines turned on the pump and timed how long it would take to fill which should give a good starting point to get your automated feed times right.
I take my hat of to you for hand watering but thats gonna be impossible on this grow. I am around the cuts 24/7 but soon as they are all potted in the main room I will only be able to check them every other day.
Hazy: no problem pal to be honest I didnt have a clue what you where talking about as Im pretty new to this forum but I take it good posts you click the green thumbs up its a good one or thumbs down the info was garbage. But thanks for the comments about the mag sul I am getter a better ec and tds meter today to see the difference between the water at my house and my pals location and see what is going on I will let you know what I find but to be honest I think im gonna go down the same lines as tokesome as his issues sound to familiar and ro and cal mag worked and lets be honest the investment would be a good one in the future.
Another thourght on the medium normally I would only use coco but im thinking to adding some clay pebbles to help with the drainage was thinking do i add a 2inch layer at the bottom of the pots or should I mix up a 10ltr bag of pepples witha 50ltr bag of coco. Im in the mind set of a layer at the bottom of the pots maybe with a wick??

 

[Tokesome]

Hey Or Blues, I wouldn`t recommend the clay pebbles perconally. I know a lot of people use them without issue, but I`ve had some issues with them, when I checked here on this forum about it, there were many other people that had had issues, and guess what, they were cal/mg def probs. I checked my roots and the ones around the clay pebble had gone a horrible brown, though still some life in them, not healthy. Coco nutes are designed to work with coco, if you were growing in hydroton pebbles you`d use a totally differently balanced nutrient solution, and as such I dont believe one nutrient, either coco nutes or those designed to work with Hydroton peb`s can work effectively in both mediums at the same time.

After a lot of discussion on a thread I had here, (I`ll try and find it and give you the details), I was given the idea of wicks for drainage, and then adapted this a little with raised pots and I`ve got to say it really works fantastically. You lose root space to the peb`s and the theory behind it says that the perched water table (wet zone at bottom of pots) is just risen when peb`s are added to the bottom of the pots.

If ya wanna check this out for which is the most effective, get 3 identical pots with the same amount of coco, one add pebbles to the bottom, one straight coco, and one straight coco but with a wick inserted about 2 inches into the centre of the bottom of the pot. Put each pot over its own catching tray and add the same amount fof fluid to each, enough to give some run off. Leave for an hour and then measure the liquid from each of the three catching tray. I can promise you mate if you do this test I know which one you`d opt for.

Hey there Hazy, when you`re saying the Mag sulphate will do without cal, is that for use in coco mate? Defo not my strong point, but I know the balance between Cal and Mg in coco is quite critical in coco.

Hey or Blues, to add to someones rep you click on the scales underneath their name, the helpful post is a new thing that`s been added lately.

Toke ;-)

 

[Tokesome]

There is still no growth showing in the buds, that`s been the case for 7-10 days now, since the tops threw out the funny top shoots. There are still another 17 days till expected chop date so they may well take off on a filling out spree yet, the individual buds that make up the colas are still really small. I`m a bit concerned as there are no new white pistils developing from the buds and they`re getting browner over all as if ripening up. Usually with this strain I`ve found it to brown off in the pistils early, but new bud growth carried on with fresh white pistils. and it is the time when I`d expect to see some pretty rapid bud development

My plants otherwise look happy in every way. Some of the bigger fan leaves are starting to loose some of their rich colour, as I`d expect at this stage.

I`m confident I have the plants in a happy set up now, though the early damage to these plants throughout veg may be catching up with them. If they fill out well in the last 2 and a 1/2 weeks they`ll still give a reasonable yield.

The last res mix with PK13/14 added will be made up today, then in 3-4 days I`ll give them lower nutes of somewhere around ec1.2. The last res I made up was a tad strong. I didn`t drop the quantities of my A+B, but went with full dose PK13/14, it ended up being around ec1.8. I`ll give a little less A+B in today`s res and aim for ec1.5-1.6 with the last full dose of PK. I`ll add molasses again today or tmro. I`ve been keeping a close eye open for any nute burn in the tips, but I haven`t seen the slightest sign of it

The pot`s run off is pretty much a constant. Slight variations in ec, but only by a max of+or- ec0.2, but usually roughly the same as is being fed from the top. Ph is usually around 6.2-6.3, whereas I`m feeding at ph5.8. I`m assuming all ok there.

If these plants do stunt out at this stage obviously it`ll be the last go with this strain, I dont think I can do much more.

Nobody commented on my Canna coco part B having some precipitation visible in it. . . . . is it possible my plants are not getting something they need??

Off to tuck and fold some leaves. . . . Toke ;-)

 

[~Shhh~]

yes very... what has precipitated though is a guess at this point, not sure that would cause the issues though??

 

[spleebale]

Aphids look like Gnats and WRECK roots.

Aphids look like Gnats and WRECK roots.

So no one has checked their roots really carefully yet with a jewler's loupe or similar (10X magnification or better)? In my experience they are not always EVERYWHERE but once you find them you start to notice that they are all over the place.

My experience lately has been the same with my last 6+ grows in two different rooms in my house with multiple different strains and in a number of different mediums (coco, soil, hydro in hydroton, hydro in coco croutons) and with different nutrient lines (Cutting Edge, GH, Canna Coco A&B, Humbolt Master Bloom).

I get leaves that look like the ones on "DarkLance"s pic (from Toke's original thread - sorry, don't know of any similar pics posted in this thread and can't find link to other thread) - Originally this would happen just after I would click into bloom but now I am regularly getting this progressive leaf-death about 2 weeks after I move out of floros under HPS lighting to finish Veging/"harden off".

I have only recently discovered the root aphids:

#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#IMPORTANT NOTICE TO EVERYONE WITH FLYING "GNATS"#$#$#$#$#$#$#$#

Your "gnats" may actually be winged aphids!!!

[Above: Fungus Gnat]

****Above: Adult, Female, WINGED ROOT APHIDS (the black thing)!!!!****


#####Identification:#####

[differences between winged aphids and fungus gnats]

-One major difference is that they have a body that looks much more like a beetle or aphid (much rounder and more solid) than a fungus gnat, which looks more like a mosquito (long and thin).

-They also fly differently: where fungus gnats seem to drift around lazily, these seem like they have purpose. Tehy fly much more "solidly" as they are more massive and have stronger wings.

-In fact, these seem to have an agenda where gnats don't.

-Winged aphids are always doing stuff. They seem to flick their wings around when they emerge from the media or when they land, which can catch the light. They are much more aware of you coming and will often try to avoid you (where fungus gnats seem oblivious and just die) AND it is harder to clap the winged root aphids, where the fungus gnats -again- just die.

-These aphids are far more attracted to light than to wine or other things people use to attract gnats (I never tried potato slices tho).

-These bugs do not seem to die from Bti (gnatrol, mosquito dunks), or at least any that die are quickly replaced.


#####The Problem#####

What's worst is that these bugs seems to do SERIOUS damage and are almost impossible to eliminate, unlike gnats.

These things are outright EVIL.


What I have gathered so far:

-There seem to be at least two, perhaps many more varieties of root aphid (from photos on other threads etc).

-The life cycle of the root aphid is very complicated and there are many stages which can vary based on the time of year etc., giving the pest amazing flexibility to deal with environmental conditions and cycles of seasons.

-The existence of the winged ones signals both a high concentration (based on the root density and sap-pull I believe) and also is the main mechanism by which they can spread from plant to plant, room to room (or even be outside, where they will fly in from as soon as you get everything removed and cleaned).

-All solutions are temporary (can only hold their numbers back, like with spider mites), need to be applied regularly (best when using multiple different harsh insecticides) and it is almost impossible to eliminate them entirely unless you are able to remove all living plants in the current location, overly clean EVERYTHING, getting rid of ALL used media - and I have still heard of them coming back (as it only takes ONE small egg which can lay dormant)

-The people who have done best (according to online reading) have taken multiple-chemical approaches and have done intensive routine applications (addressing bugs that may be trying to escape as the chems are applied too).

-It deserves noting that after ~15 hours of online reading about this problem (most in these sort of forums from people who have had the issue) I have heard many sob stories of people trying everything and going to great lengths to war with these pests and in the end getting bad results and coming to the conclusion that they have to completely start over, often even moving and getting all new genetics. To those of you out there like me for whom that is a terrible last possible resort but who are affected with this problem, here is what I have gathered so far from extensive reading of others and contemplation on the issue.

-[It also deserves noting again that my last 6+ grows have been PLAGUED by this problem, through changing nearly EVERY possible thing, but also that I have only JUST *finally* recognized that I have these dreaded aphids a couple days ago! So I am a veteran in fighting this problem but only an amateur in actually knowing what it is that I am fighting (where I was previously making all sorts of guesses about what was causing my "magnesium deficiency" and now am at war with aphids and accompanying root damage)


#####Temporary Control#####

-Imidacloprid is the main solution and it is systemic (apparently absorbed by the plants like some of the other nasty chems) - best to use only in early stages, before bloom as it is supposed to exist for months in the plants (though not keeping pests at bay for that long). The main sources people like are: Merit 75 (one of the strongest - expensive up-front investment) Bayer Tree & Shrub (or other Insecticides w/ imid) - weakest form (so it is less dangerous) and it is cheaper and available at hardware sores.

(Imid is the same substance used in Advantage and Frontline for pets - it is based off nicotine and probably has similar toxicity. It smells like Advantage tho, and is probably not great for you. It deserves noting that yesterday I made a 3X concentration mix with Bayer Complete Insect Killer [which also has Beta-Cyfluthrin in it] and set it up to water through irrigation and the hose was loose and came off, spraying all over my face and down my torso...

I immediately showered, but don't feel bad... I'll let you know)

-Botanigard was mentioned as the most effective and also SAFE non-systemic control (not a chemical so it can be used up to the day of harvest). It is two strains of fungi which attack insects I believe [anyone wanna do a report?]

-Bifenthrin ("Wisdom" and others) is another that is non-systemic (so it can be used without the plant holding on to it. It is supposed to be very effective and not that toxic.

-Acephate ("Orthene" etc.) was mentioned as one of the most effective instant-kills (as opposed to the imid which is more for continued control) but seems to be quite toxic (I would DEFINITELY recommend looking into it before using!!!

-Acetamiprid, Gamma-cyhalothrin were also mentioned as treatments but I have not looked into them - anyone who would like to add on info about them, please?



#####Personal Notes on the Issue####


-In my experience the worst things about these pests is that they weaken the plants immune system and expose the root area to further damage and attack from other pathogens (pythium etc.). At least as best as I can tell, this is why I keep getting this problem that seems like a terrible magnesium deficiency and continues to rapidly progress with the rust necrosis (tan, crisped spots on leaves) takes over and works its way through all of my healthy leaves until the plant is no longer able to make much forward progress and harvests are halved at best, ruined at worst.

-One thing that tells me it is not just Magnesium is that it is such a bad problem yet the plant does not show the systemic lack of magnesium indicators - "praying" leaves etc. Also the bud quality is not incredibly compromised (for those that do get thick enough), where Mag-deficient buds are pretty terrible (bland etc).

-For me it is typically the plants receiving the most light that are worst affected, but it is not light-burn/heat burn and definitely not under-watering damage. My belief has come to be that those plants are worse-effected as a combination of factors: receiving the most light they have the most strongly-flowing "sap" and provide for the greatest population growth of the aphids while simultaneously needing the most resources (due to the stroing light) where they are being robbed the most of them (highest need and being sapped the most). This is still a developing theory, but plants that get far less light seem to be doing better/are less affected.


-I have noticed that the systems in which the problem has been worst are the ones that get watered most/are most wet and are not able to fully dry out. (Though I have not done DWC or aero recently since I have had the problem - top-feed hydro with a few watering a day was the most "wet"). My theories about it are that A) Roots aphids like moist conditions B)They do the most damage in moist conditions where the lesions they make on the roots quickly start growing pythium etc. Particularly in the absence of beneficial (Aqua Shield was the most I have used as a preventative as benes have caused me problems in the res before and I figured AS would help keep things clean - I have also tried SM90, H2O2, Zone, and SM90 + Zone. -None have worked. I figure as long as little bugs are eating your roots, they are not going to be able to stay healthy and white and keep proliferating.


-An important piece of the puzzle is that I have given plants to others that had been planted and around for a while, so I can only imagine they must have harbored some aphids - yet two other people have grown without the tragic "mag deficiency " problem I always get - or at least without getting it bad, I haven't inspected, but their yields are good. I know at least one of them only does soil, tends to have very dry conditions with low humidity and tends to let his plants dry out (only watering 10 gal/ 36 5-gal plants every other day). I think perhaps the drying out and low humidity play a big role, but perhaps also the fact that they do not have a big population already built up (as my problem has gotten progressively worse and there are always fliers (winged gnats) around, even when I break a whole system down.

-One single person who posted on this issue online stated that he had a bad problem with them and then let EVERYTHING dry out completely (I am assuming they were in soil or soil-less) and the bugs all died and the problem went away. I have not heard any other reports on this - everyone else seems to keep drenching the plants with stuff to kill them, which only seems to hold them back - like with mites. I would LOVE any more information from anyone on having root aphids and being able to deal with them/them not being a problem.

-I am also thinking that a healthy "micro-herd" has helped them (as my worst problems were in hydro systems I was trying to keep "clean" [except for Aqua Shield which is B. subtilus, which is to keep everything "clean"] - though I have not tried to populate a hydro system with benes from the start yet). My most recent small round in a closet is in coco but is not NEARLY as badly affected as some of my last coco rounds have been. It is hard to pin-point why, but I think a better micro-herd and also well-timed use of nematodes. I have been watering them with far less "Chem nutes" (only up to 5mL/gal Canna Coco A+B) and far less often, though, and have been supplementing with some organic additives (LK, Humbolt Honey ES) and some Humbolt Bloom (just high organic Phosphorus). It could be the lower chem nutes but I think it is more the better micro-herd + nematodes (probably better because of lower chems and higher organic additives, tho, so it is basically the same cause).

-It seems clear to me that these critters are most dangerous to high-humidity, high moisture environments (plants whose roots stay wet a lot) with a low population of beneficials.

-My theory: They do average damage like mites if their population is kept at bay (doing what you can to keep down the "fliers," letting soil dry out well, disposing of medium immediately after harvest, keeping humidity down and using Imid and or Botanigard to control them - But in systems where the roots regularly stay moist and there is not a great colony of beneficials to protect roots, the damage done by the aphids will be devastating from the compounding issue of root damage in wet conditions (and the inability to fully prevent the root from being further attacked by pathogens). This is where I am at right now and have been for a while :-(

#####My answer#####

If you can't move or switch locations for a cycle while you THOROUGHLY clean EVERYTHING (and make sure no fliers have laid eggs anywhere around your house/in house plants etc).

THEN:

Your growing options may be limited.

Here is my plan:

-Switch to soil in my closet "testing" area, use mostly organics with multiple infusions of benes and water very minimally and only every other day (at most - as I tend to over-water and I think this contributes to the problem)

-In my hydro: run Bayer (Imid) first (already did yesterday), then try different treatments of benes on different plants to see how they respond (I am running drain to waste). I am thinking: Myco Madness (Humbolt), Pirhana (AN), Tarantula (AN), Oregonism (Roots Oraganics) and SubCulture (GH). Unfortunately all of them are old (and the Oregonism has gotten wet) except for the Sub Culture - which I would have to go buy.

-All plants: Bayer treatment (20-25 mL/gal "Tree and Shrub" OR 40-50 mL/gal "Complete Insect Killer")

-Follow-up protection w/ Botanigard

This is the plan for now. I am only just beginning to address the actual problem (I believe) now that I know I have these aphids.

I hope this compilation of personal experience and posted experience of others will help people who are experiencing these same issues. I think this outbreak is mostly in Northern California, though please inform if otherwise!



If you do not have any root aphids (particularly to those whose thread I may have unintentionally hijacked) - I am very sorry for the huge essay.

If you do NOT have any aphids, it is likely you just have a nutrient lockout or imbalance. In this case, again, sorry for stealing the thread, but you should consider yourself EXTREMELY lucky and count your blessings! At very least you can just change nutrients/medium or get an RO unit and your issue will go away. If you do NOT have aphids, here is some information for you about nutrient lockout:


Mix nutrinets well (best to use circ pump) with EACH one added:
-Add CalMg FIRST and stir REALLY well
-Add micro next or which ever of the two-part is supposed to be added first
-I am not sure but I think it is best to mix any base (ph up) into the solution in a dilute mix with water so it does not produce the "white cloud effect" - I have not read up on this but I can only imagine it is better to avoid teh white cloud (anyone with better info? Please?)

Check water (getting analysis is best).

-Put a shot glass of your water in the freezer - if it is mostly opaque/white you probably want an RO unit (I think that means high Calcium carbonate or Bicarbonate - better info anyone???)

-Bring pms up to 150-200 w/ CalMg (or add 50-100 ppm if it is already high)

-Many plants like ratio of magnesium to be brought up in late veg/early bloom (when plant is putting on a lot of new tissue/producing a lot of chlorophyll) - using epsom salts is the most common way. Mag Amp is supposed to be chelated Mg, but I am suspicious of its high cost.

-Make sure nutes have enough Mg to Ca. (Typically 4-6% Ca, 1-2% Mg in most fertilizers) Most big-name brands have plenty and in decent ratios.

-#1 Reason for burnt-tips, foliage issues: Over-nutrienting. If watering with nutrients every time, water must run-off out of medium so salts are not just keep building up from each watering. If using soil or organics in the mix (guano, worm castings etc), cut back off seriously on macro nutes (soil has PLENTY for a lot of growth and just needs a bit of P/K boosting [with moderate N and high CalMg] for bloom). Make sure you are not adding too many products that spike the NPKs too much/raise ppms too high (above 1400 is only OK for hydro and only in some cases) or shift the ratios too much (big N content in some additive will "push" Mg and Ca etc out of the medium, especially in Coco).

-If in coco: make sure you are either using a major brand of coco fiber or that you are rinsing it really well. Coco that has been around for a long time (even still in the bag, unopened) should probably be rinsed anyway, as it releases K as it breaks down (and N/K are the main culprits in causing Mg problems). Rinsed coco should be watered with a mild mix of at least CalMg (1-4 mL/gal depending on water) and maybe mild nutrients and then used soon after.

-Using organics in coco is probably a lor safer since it does not kill off the micro-herd as much, does not build up salts as much and does not have the ion-exchange issue coco does (since organics are not mostly dissolved ions like chem ferts). you get the root/growth benefits of coco and the organic quality of organics (/soil). I think that organically grown buds in coco are FAR better than soil buds grown with a chem fert like like GH or Cutting Edge etc.

-Do not water plants with STRAIGHT RO water. I have not read up on this, but it seemed to make any lockout issues/Mg deficiency only WORSE (this was in coco, but I would imagine same goes for hydro)


Again, sorry for hijacking the thread, especially if I did not provide any useful information for those of you regulars to this thread, but PLEASE let me know what you find - about Mg deficiency, root aphids or beneficials and lockout issues etc.

Hope I helped.

-Willie Broheim

 

[Tokesome]

Hey Speebale, fuck I hope I never come across these little horrors, living across the pond, I`m not even sure we have them here.

My issues, I beleive are nothing to do with aphids. I have no flying insects in my grow. I`ve had fungus gnats before tho. My problem was down to the water and the ro unit combined with better environment control etc have cured all my issues relating to mg def/lockout. I do feel fortunate that I dont have what you have. I`ve used a product before for treating for mites and always treat plants coming in from outside, its systemic and says its for use with aphids too. I dare say you know all the stuff there is to use for your infestation, but you may wanna check this stuff out. Its called "Plant Vitality" and can be checked out on www.plantvitality.com. It works a treat on the marching army/mites. One application and I`ve never seen a return of mites.

I dont know why my plants have funny deformed growths at the tips of the colas, but my plants look as healthy as can be now. I hope you get your`s all sorted now you`ve discovered what it is.

Toke ;-)

Ps I think you should start a thread here at ICmag about it.

 

[Tokesome]

Hey OR Blues, I found the post about the hydroton balls for assisted drainage. Check the article hal way down the first page, introduced by Delta9 and published on the page by Bone carver.

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=141009

Toke

 

[spleebale]

Hey Toke - glad to hear you solved your issues. Can you pinpoint what was causing it most? Do you think it was your water quality (high calcium carbonate or bicarbonate maybe?) Did using RO water fix it right up?

Yeah, I hope I got this under control *fingers crossed*

I started a thread in the infirmary about fungus gnats vs roots aphids.

Also, Toke: I wish I could get some of that Plant Vitality stuff on our side of the pond!

I hope none of you ever get these demons EVER.

-WB

 

[original Blues]

Hay well after a visit to my pals yesterday I checked his water supply with my ph meter to find a ph of 7.2 where as mine is 7.6. EC unreadable on both samples my pals ec meter goes to .2. There is a difference how this helps me I dont know but it does tell me my water is less acidic and the water quality is different.

Well a few things have changed regarding my next setup the location had to be changed due to a owner not been able to keep his mouth shut. So fook that telling peps b4 even the lights have been fitted hes bound to have people around boasting about it.

So the location will have to stay the sme a little smaller but rather that than getting a tug of the old bill.

neutrients have all nearly been selected:
Clones:
Rizotonic
formulex

Veg:
Base neutrients Flair forms Green Dream 1 part
Flair Forms Gro storm

Bloom
Green Dream
Bud Blood
Big Bud
Pk 13/14
Ripen

Hay tokesome gonna start my own thread today for this grow Ill stop jacking your thread lol.

Spleebale:
Thanks for the info aphids I am almost 100% sure I ant got them Ive had enough issues defo dont want them little fookers hope you get it sorted.

 

[Tokesome]

Hey Speebale, yeah the water is what I believe has made all the difference here, not just my flowering plants, but also my cuttings are doing great whareas before they were always struggling a bit. Best of luck with your quest to get on top of your problem mate, sounds like you`ve got yourself well armed with the the relevant info to deal with them.

Can you not order some plant vitality online and have it shipped? Its a small bottle of concentrate, 25mls makes up 1ltr.

Or Blues, I`ll be joining you on your thread mate, but been good to see you here and I hope I`ve been of some help, if not just some moral support for you sorting your issues out. Feel free to drop in and gimme a shout whenever mate. By the way are you uk or usa.

Did you check out the article about the perched water table in the link I gave above, I cant recommend the wick method for assisted drainage, the wick keeps on dripping long after the run off has stopped spilling from the holes in the bottom of the pots. I think also to have the pots raised off the ground/catching tray is a good thing, it stops the air stagnating around the bottom of the pots and encourages run-off to flow freely. Its amazing how much resistance the film of fluid between two surfaces can create. A layer of sharp sand on top of your pots (I think an inch is recommended) should prevent your pots from being a home to gnats and you`d soon lose the problem.

Yeah fook noisy idiots when it comes to growing, you`re better off keeping things to yourself mate.

Or blues, ya know I couldn`t beleive it was my water was the cause of my plants issues, because a friend just a few doors from me grows the same strain in tap water with no issues, others nearby too. That`s why it took me so long to get around to trying it. The ph and ec read the same. Defo the water aint the best in this area and man it reeks of chlorine so badly at times, but I think my water issue is building specific and I suspect that I may have damaged pipes coming to the house. The one thing other than all my flowering plants improving and showing no more yellowing between the veins, is that my cuttings are picture perfect now, and its more than a year since I`ve seen that. This proves that whatever it is that`s causing issues here is fast acting as my cuttings would start showing def signs after 8days of rooting up in the propagator.

As Speebale mentioned above, to take a shot glass and fill it with water and stick it in the freezer, if its largely opaque its pretty poor. When I did this with mine it was really quite opaque. So were the samples from other houses nearby tho, so I`d say our local water is borderline. I`m going to test a couple of plants in another house that is apparently doing ok on RO water, as I`m guessing it would improve things there too.

Gimme a link to yer thread when you`re sorted and I`ll be sure to drop in there.

Toke ;-)

 

[Tokesome]

Well ok I`ve got the thread back after the recent hijackings!! Only joking fellas.

Well I`m pretty certain that the buds have stopped short of what they should be doing. Its not just my paranoia. . . . honest!!

The stretchy tops are doing nothing, there is no elongating of the colas, and they`re filling out a little at best. I`d be expecting to see some hefty growth for the past week, and for the next one too, but all seems to have arrested.

I cant figure out why this should be. I`m having no other signs of issues, there are no lighting/times errors going on, the temps are good, and I know the plants are being treated well in every way. I can only assume that the damage they suffered during veg is affecting things now. Its very frustrating to see the development stunt out like this, especially after having put so much effort in to get them on track well with all they need.

A couple of the pics I`ve held a standard clipper lighter next to the bud to show the scale, but on the over head shots there isn`t one of the tips that`s wider in diameter than a clipper lighter!!

Some discolouration showing in some of the older fan leafs, I`m assuming its just the age thing, but it is in the area where its the hottest under the static 600w so it could be showing the signs of stress??

This looks fine with no scale, but its only 4inches long

All I can do is hope they`ll fatten up a little.

I have a little B`cuzz A+B, I`ll give them a feed of this as the Canna A+B has the precipitation issue and I`m worried slightly that it may be affecting this stunting issue.

Toke

 

[original Blues]

Hay up guys tokesome mentioned plant vitality plus I would also vouch a defo winner on thips and spider mites any new plants that enter my grow space gets a good dip in this and this has reminded me to stock up.

I hope your ladys fatten up mate based in UK. Thanks for the info on drainage dont think im gonna bother with the pebbles and have a better look at the wicks.

 

[original Blues]

hay check out my thread http://www.icmag.com/modules/Journal/viewentry.php?journalid=470. I think i found thess products and i would like your opinion http://www.advancednutrients.com/landing_pages/sensi_cal_grow_landing.html
http://www.progrow.co.uk/acatalog/info_1749.html

 

[Tokesome]

hay check out my thread http://www.icmag.com/modules/Journal/viewentry.php?journalid=470. I think i found thess products and i would like your opinion http://www.advancednutrients.com/landing_pages/sensi_cal_grow_landing.html
http://www.progrow.co.uk/acatalog/info_1749.html

Thread looking good, all the detail laid out well mate.

Wouldn`t know about the cal/mg product, the addy seems like they`re gonna ask some serious money for the stuff, did you get as far as finding the price out. I use Calmax, which I can source fairly locally from a grow shop, its the same spec as Calmag and is for use throughout grow and bloom.

Yeah mate, that`ll do the job, if you have reasonable pressure from your mains you wont need the booster pump.

Toke

 

[Tokesome]

OG, I found a good wick material to be the wicking mat used in greenhouses etc. You can buy it from places like B&Q, homebase, garden centers etc. Its designed for wicking, green one side white the other. It releases liquid easily which is the important part, a lot of materials get soaking wet, but dont let go of the liquid easily and therefore the pots retain the liquid you`re trying to get rid of.

There are discussions here at IC re best wick materials, this is just one that I know works exceptionally well and is cheap.

Toke

 

[original Blues]

Tomesome: the sensi cal-mg is 12.95 1 ltr so 25 for veg and bloom mix 1.25ml per ltr ive seen another product bonticare cal mag only found at 1 hydro shop down in exeter way to far to drive. Im not into ordering on line for security issues and i dont want to ask pals they will know what im doing so im gonna have to stick with sensi stuff.
Yes fingers crossed I dont need a booster pump.

 

[Tokesome]

Yeah, I reckon the sensi Cal-mg should do the job fine. I dont like their style of pushing their products but WTF, its a capitalist world we live in eh? Its just they accuse competitors of using inadequate materials, they make it sound like all competitors. I only know of two in my limited knowledge of such things, 1 Calmag, used successfully by many here on IC, and 2 Calmax which I can say categorically that it does the job well. What they say about the plant requiring different types of Calcium for grow and bloom periods sounds a bit dodgy to me, though again my knowledge bank isn`t high in such things but I`ve never heard of that in all the threads and websites I looked at when I was looking into it. I`m not suggesting that their product would be inferior, but I struggle to place trust in a company that uses such tactics in advertising, when it comes to believing what they say about their own product. I reckon any Cal/Mg product available for plants would be better than the crap that comes with dodgy tap water!!

I for sure understand your concern with postage unless you have a safe addy to send it to, and for that reason alone its worth going with what you can source locally. Did you try any good garden centers? I wonder if they`d carry such stock for the prize flower and veg folks.

Toke

 

[Tokesome]

Re using coco and final flushing??

Re using coco and final flushing??

Oops I messed up slightly today and as a result they`ll have an extra couple of days on PK13/14.

Stupid of me really, its day 49, or at least it was yesterday, and I intended going with basic Calmax and Coco A+B and mixed it ec1.4. I then ph`d it and didn`t think about the difference in acidity when using PK13/14 as it tends to make the res very alkaline. The result was a ph of 3.4.

I only had enough warmed RO water to top the res up (I`d only half filled it thankfully), and this still had the ph in the high 3`s. The only thing I could think to do was add PK13/14.

I topped the res up, added more Calmax and A+B to make it ec1.3 and then added PK13/14 to bring it up to ec1.6. Doh! too much and I had to add more ph down.

So now I have a full res of nutes with PK13/14 in and only 2 weeks to go. I`ll feed it for a day or 2 and then switch to standard nutes and Calmax and aim for between ec1.2-1.4, before cutting the nutes for the last 5 days or so.

I`m aiming to re-use my coco for the first time, is it ok to flush the medium through with fresh water + zym product for 5-7 days without affecting the medium adversely?

Cheers Toke

 

[Scrogerman]

Whats gone on there Toke, they are wierd for some reason dude, i see what you mean now, sorry for my ignorance buddy & i will read back but give us a rundown, why are they so thin? theres no body or bulk to them at all buddy. I hope they fatten up for you dude!
Were they cloned from a single fem mom or something? without growing it out first, thats what it looks like!
Peace.....Scroger