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Phylloxera information - aka root mites aka root aphids

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    A little update,

    I have stuck with the Bayer Tree and Shrub, and it seems to effectively control the little beasties well enough. but still they continue to persist. Most times they are hard to find, other times they are easily visible. The roots are able to keep up with the damage actually quite well. I commenced flowering 10-27 and wow they are clearly budding up just fine. Only a little mag def due, i think, due to low ph locking mag out. very minor indeed

    Just something for others searching this forum in the future.

    Comment


      HI folks. I recently discovered these, and was confirmed by the Noble scrubninja. I am about 5 weeks into flower and not going to apply any serious pesticides until next round, but wondering if there is a RELATIVELY SAFE APPLICATION OF SOMETHING TO POSSIBLY SLOW THEM DOWN A BIT 3 WEEKS BEFORE HARVEST?

      I realize there only seems to be one pesticide that can get them under control, and plan on using it for the moms, but am having a hard time sitting idly by as my harvest is diminished. Thanks all.

      ps. I did get to page 11 of the thread and will finish it eventually, but my head was spinning and i don't recall. THANKS AGAIN

      Comment


        I wouldn't mess with them at this point. I doubt that they will make a difference so late to go.
        Treating them has costs too. Kind of like surgery, it may be worse than the disease, especially so late.
        Even if they are in late stages it may be too late.

        For example if in hydroponics, simply being effective in killing them will cause decomposition which drops ph dramatically. Like from 5.8 to 4.9 in less than one day. that will decrease harvest as well.
        There are no truly good answers to this pest.

        Comment


          BYW- I'm prety sure that Bayer tree and scrub is supposed to be food safe.

          Comment


            Originally posted by inreplyavalon View Post
            HI folks. I recently discovered these, and was confirmed by the Noble scrubninja. I am about 5 weeks into flower and not going to apply any serious pesticides until next round, but wondering if there is a RELATIVELY SAFE APPLICATION OF SOMETHING TO POSSIBLY SLOW THEM DOWN A BIT 3 WEEKS BEFORE HARVEST?

            I realize there only seems to be one pesticide that can get them under control, and plan on using it for the moms, but am having a hard time sitting idly by as my harvest is diminished. Thanks all.

            ps. I did get to page 11 of the thread and will finish it eventually, but my head was spinning and i don't recall. THANKS AGAIN
            my friend said an azatrol/azamax soil drench worked; search my posts in the thread but i think the ratio was 1oz/gal... could b wrong... i never tried it myself but he said it works; i think the neem applied to soil won't affect the taste of buds or anything like that so late into flower
            Opt1c's Seed Tek

            My Current Grow
            Fall '10 - Under Current 6XXL Hybrid Horizontal 2K and Vert 1.2K Insanity

            Previous Grows:
            Summer '08 - Soma Rockbud Outdoors

            Spring '09 - Mr. Nice Black Widow 30 Site Bato Bucket Coco SOG
            Fall '09 - Hydro Showdown: Under Current 6XL vs Bato Bucket - DCxGOO - 2,400Ws
            Winter '09 - Soma Rockbud 2K Handwatered Coco Grow with CO2
            Spring '10 - Soma Rockbud A+ in Bato Buckets 3x6 1200watts
            Spring '10 - Reservoir ChemHazexSourD Under Current Grow

            Comment


              I went the azatrol route in hydro. In my experience it was a big waste of $. Though it may have had some immeasurable effect.

              Then again, I haven't seen any evidence of them in my soilless mix pots, only in hydro. It may depend on the important details that he has not provided, i.e. medium, picts of pest, etc, etc.

              Comment


                Hey all, sorry I've been busy as hell...

                I'm thrilled to report that these bastards are history.

                I've become very well versed in the numerous methods, strategies, and chemicals to use to target these root suckers in their different life stages.

                I do believe that is why so many fellow cultivators are having a nightmare killing these things off.

                I've done tests with different store bought pesticides and also played with different mediums, to test the effectiveness in eradicating these strange insects. Diff chems are better for different life stages.

                It is all out chemical warfare to gain the upper hand on these. There has to be patience, planning, a strategy and most importantly you must exercise great care in handling all these chemicals.

                The list of chemicals that I used that dealt a 99% knock out to the population on a friends setup, who was infested with these things. Acetamiprid, Imidacloprid, Gamma-cyhalothrin , Bifenthrin. These along with a surfactant to make sure all of his coco was submerged.

                We made about 20 gallons of this stuff. He had 12 containers going. We flooded the containers for approx 30 minutes. and then drained. It took about a good week of hardcore searching until we could find a few tiny ones.

                Keep in mind the canopy was treated with a 91% rubbing alcohol foliar, followed almost immediately with a RO water rinse. After this point we spread that sticky shit on fly traps around the stalk of the plant to prevent future climbers from succeeding.

                Approx 5 day later the same exact treatment was applied and its been 4 weeks, and he looks daily, and cannot find one.

                Some background on his infestation. By the time he asked me and we began treatment, the infestation was epic in size. I mean there were hundreds just doing laps around the brim of his pots.

                We did move his plants to different sterile locations throughout the house for segregation and control measures. All locations were sterilized with 3x ozone generators, and were left to run for about 12 hours. (it smelled like the room had been soaked in bleach). I've never experienced such high concentrations of ozone, literally eyes would burn instantly, and my lungs almost couldn't/didn't want to inhale. Insane stuff, be very careful. This stuff is the airborne equivalent of bleach so don't be careless with it. At those insane concentrations god knows what it just might oxidize in your body.

                I'll be back soon with more details, and shit that I left out.

                PS whoever is using the Imid (bayer tree and shrub) up the dosage by 5x. You will see a huge difference in the effectiveness.

                be back soon with more, good luck all.

                PS if anyone is worried about residual effects and shit, this is NOT the procedure to be doing during flowering. What I personally did after posioning the plants, is I let them grow out, took a clone,killed her, rooted the clone, let her grow out, took a clone from that clone, did the same thing, and then did it one last time. I'm now convinced that she is safe enough to give me clones that I can safely flower.

                This was my way of "flushing" or minimizing the quantity of pesticide present in my mother plants.

                I think almost every MJ grower has these things had just hasn't noticed it yet. And they also explain the false signs of deficiencies, over watering, ph fluctuation, etc.

                =)

                have fun waging war!!

                Comment


                  this link says that imid dunk isnt very effective, BUT 100% eradication was achieved from orthene dunks, dycarb dunks achieved 86% die off and botaniguard 96% die off.

                  http://gpnmag.com/articles/some.pdf

                  Comment


                    Baliman,

                    My fight with them is drawing to an end. My ladies are dying in the forth week of flowering. With the fan leaves rapidly yellowing and the roots looking like a dirty mop, it seems clear that all has been for naught.
                    It wasn't so much that the root aphids overwhelmed them in numbers. It is the pathogens and damage that they do to the roots.

                    If you, Baliman are right about how to fight (and I don't doubt it) them... then for future browsers of this subject if you have the specific variety that I have posted here I would advise the following:
                    -scraping the grow completely and immediately. Cut your loses
                    -while cleaning up go to war with the room and all your equipment... bleach is not strong enough.
                    -chose different growing medium.

                    Be well and chose wisely,
                    I might be able to make hash with this.

                    Comment


                      That's very sad to hear, attila. Damn. You wanna hear something f*cked up? I've been battling this outside in my regular potplants/vegies, thought I had it whipped a few times but a palm tree was just too badly affected to soak up enough imid, so I've been applying it regularly and I think it's almost cleaned up, lol, but who knows. My dope plant is all good inside, no further problems after 1 treatment.

                      Anyway, as I was investigating the outsiders today, I looked on the ground around the pots, and they are just everywhere Then I found them all over the god damn property. There's basically not a bit of ground where you wouldn't find them. So that is kind of hilarious. Maybe these things really will take over the world? I looked in the container of leftover soil I mixed up for the young dope plants I repotted the day before and they're all partying in there as well. There's never even been plants growing in any of that soil yet. It's f*cking ON now, chaps.

                      I've had good results controlling the fallout (and generally improving my gardening) with beneficial bacteria. I use an Aussie product called Bio-Bugs and all the things in it seem to be aimed primarily at root pathogens/diseases etc. There are a lot of similar products for other markets too. This works out as one of the cheapest products in my collection per application, yet makes one of the biggest differences, with obvious benefits for phylloxera sufferers. Works in hydro too.

                      If you have phlloxera... may the lord have mercy on your soul...
                      Chillin' so hard my ass almost froze off

                      600w vert: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=236394

                      Comment


                        I thought I had phylloxera. I freaked out and read this damn 15 page thread over and over again hehe. After battling them and losing I began to realize, what I had, does zero damage. I have now come to the conclusion that what I have is the fungus gnat predator mite, or some beneficial soil mite that is very similar.

                        No where on this site have I heard anybody make light of beneficial mites. Here is what I understand

                        If it is a root aphid it WILL have antenae looking appendages sticking out its butt end. No dual sticks on the butt it is not an aphid!

                        My little guys cruise the medium. They eat fungus gnat larvae, algae, and leftover kelp... evidently they eat lady bugs too, who knew. Angry little shits are not going away though, and I'm glad to have them. Just another part of my microherd.

                        Check out naturescontrol.com , they have the predatorial fungus gnat mites.

                        Comment


                          worst thing ever having read this thread i feel depressed anyways my veg room is infested and the plants show it at least some do. it seams some strains tolerate it better than others. oddly enough my outdoor plants which were vegged indoor seem somewhat unaffected maybe some natural predators idk. but i do not see them on the medium surface outdoor anyways it seems there is no absolutely effective treatment. im goin to do a h202 pyrethrum/canola oil and sm-90 soak i know this wont kill all but hopefully will knock them back a bit fuck. i have dealt with thrips mites fungus gnats caterpillars powdery mildew etc.. these are the worst followed by caterpillars (outdoor).

                          Comment


                            well went ahead and soil drenched with what i said no doubt this will not kill all but it was nice to see hundreds dead floating in the bucket i used. the sm-90 canola/pyrethrum and h202 were things i had laying around so no money was wasted i figure this will knock them back and allow the plants to recover a bit for round 2 or the high dose of sm-90 h202 and pyrethrum will kill the plants will see soon.

                            Comment


                              yeah i think if u are in flowering the best bet is sm90 or other root protectants to minimize the damage they do to the roots; let us know how it goes.. are you in soil bicycle racer?
                              Opt1c's Seed Tek

                              My Current Grow
                              Fall '10 - Under Current 6XXL Hybrid Horizontal 2K and Vert 1.2K Insanity

                              Previous Grows:
                              Summer '08 - Soma Rockbud Outdoors

                              Spring '09 - Mr. Nice Black Widow 30 Site Bato Bucket Coco SOG
                              Fall '09 - Hydro Showdown: Under Current 6XL vs Bato Bucket - DCxGOO - 2,400Ws
                              Winter '09 - Soma Rockbud 2K Handwatered Coco Grow with CO2
                              Spring '10 - Soma Rockbud A+ in Bato Buckets 3x6 1200watts
                              Spring '10 - Reservoir ChemHazexSourD Under Current Grow

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by opt1c View Post
                                attila; that's why i recommend the combination of merit with the gnatrol bt product... with the two of those whatever is crawling in your soil needs a spine to be alive after treatment. I like the merit because it is a more concentrated form of the imid without as many unknown fillers making up that other 90% or whatever the bayer is; i like to know what i'm putting in my plants as much as possible especially when it comes to chemicals.

                                Just like there are different species of mites there are different species of root aphids; i think the medium plays a role in what point in their life cycle they explode; often times you don't realize you have them until they're in their later stages of life; the last stage is the flying nymph stage where the go off seeking new roots as the ones in the pot they are in have been sucked dry; not a good stage to find them in. My netpots were full of rockwool minicubes and i didn't notice them until they reached the surface; they were brought in my garden via a compromised bag of coco and spread quite rapidly. I was lucky, i guess, in that i vegged my plants for over 50 days and flowered them for 70 days; well over the 90 days the chemicals were present in the plants; imid, however, is stored in the roots of the plants and i don't believe that it travels to the leaves or anything so i don't know how much would end up in the buds on a molecular level; i just go with the better safe than sorry approach.

                                good luck
                                I was the user formerly known as kushism who posted previously in this thread, and
                                cheers, good info.. Imid should knock down like 90% of root dwelling, plant sucking pests.. Stuff works like a charm.. Gnatrol can be a lifesaver also, and after treating with gnatrol and still have a prob with pests, hit em with the imid.. i have figured the same time frame info for imid.. if the plants are treated early enough, and only once the concentrations will drop steadily over time as the plant grows..

                                But great info, seriously!!

                                Comment

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