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Thrips 101: Introduction to Western Flower Thrips

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    I am not a scientist...and I didn't formulate spinosad, however I did stay at a holliday inn last night

    I wouldn't worry about it all seriousness. Spinosad is a live culture, a microorganism. It hasn't shown any harm to mammals...especially humans. My grow room is less than 3 feet from where I sleep at night...I haven't noticed any ill effects yet...yet. lol But that doesn't mean anything really... I might drop dead in 10 years cause of never know.

    Carpet is a no no for any grow room...for lots of reasons. It is a perfect 'safe harbor' for all sorts of nasties...mold, pathogens, bugs, etc. If you that shit up and put down something a little less giving. I tore out my carpet in the height of my thrip problems...and guess what I found down underneath the carpet padding? If you can't rip the carpet out...I would spray with the spinosad. Use caution though...I haven't tested this stuff on carpet to see what it does, if anything. My advice on that would be to test a small corner piece of carpet and wait a week. IF you notice anything you don't like...then don't spray.

    Spinosad works by direct contact...or by ingestion. Theoretically you could spray the carpet and when the thrips came in contact they would be killed. But how thoroughly would you need to drench the carpet to get 'contact'...I don't know.

    It is good practice to tear down and clean walls, floors, and all surfaces thoroughly in between runs. This will only make your job as a caretaker much easier. Remember, preventative maintenance is the best kind of maintenance in an herb garden.

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  • nycdfan042
    ^^ thank you man...i guess i owe baccas a "sorry dood" and yea i guess he was really high...and just not in the moood to type al that info in a chat window cant fault him for that..he is generaly a cool cat....and thanks again for all the info i guess ll thats left for me to do is receive my spino saf and treat my veg area!

    ill let the bloom room alone till its finished..and then what should i do??? clean up thoroughly, wash the wallls with a chlorox bleach/ water solution?? i have carpet in closet...should i just spray some diluter spinosad on the ground/floor area of the bloom room- when im finished flowering?? just incase?? i wanna clean that whole area(simply because my blooom rooom[walk in coset] is a foot away from my enclosed home made vegitation partition i made with polyvinyl and woood LOL)....i actually sleep feet away from the veg area(altho it is enclosed for the most part when the 12/12 hps comes on i open the polyvinyl at night i cover it it a bad idea to be spraying this stufff so closely to where i sleep every night???

    thanks again kokua!! u rock!!!!!!!

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    No worries...I love to help other that need it and want it. Don't mind baccus either...he might have been really high lol Shoot me a pm if you can find that link...I would appreciate it.

    mosquito dunks are fantastic control for thirp larvae...but only work on larvae, not necessarily adults or nymphs.

    The active ingredient in mosquito dunks is bacillus thuringiensis (Bt) is a naturally occurring bacterial disease of insects, perfectly 100% natural

    The downside to the mosquito dunks is that Bt is susceptible to degradation by sunlight. Most formulations persist on foliage less than a week following application. Some of the newer strains developed for mosquito control become ineffective in about 24 hours. In addition...Bt-based products tend to have a shorter shelf life than other insecticides. Manufacturers generally indicate reduced effectiveness after two to three years of storage. Shelf life is greatest when storage conditions are cool, dry and out of direct sunlight. My problem is that I don't know how long my garden center has had them on their shelves...and I don't even want to think about how old they were before they put them on their shelves...(how long was it at the mfr and distributor?)

    Bottom line...I have used MD with moderate to good success and other times I have used them and seen nothing. I attribute this to the 'shelf life' and old product.

    baccus is right on with his can cruble and sprinkle MD's on the foliage and in the soil. And depending on the 'freshness' of the might see some posative results. BUT NOTHING LIKE WHAT THE SPINOSAD OFFERS.

    Nowadays...I put the mosquito dunks in the same group as the sm-90's and pyrethrins and soaps and all that other stuff that works...but none even come close to the effectiveness of the spinosad for thrips.

    dose as the label tells you too....I never wash off anything, except oils. Just spray it on and leave it....its fine.

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  • nycdfan042
    thank YOU so much uve been ever so hepful!! i mean really above and beyond excellent info and help ,you got a golden heart and K+ 4 sure!!!!

    were having a hard time finding that same exact link(where it mentios the carcinogens)...all were finding links to now is how SAFE spinosad is compared to other ill take the regular precautions, and wear eye protection gloves and a small respirator when it good to "wash off" the spinosad with a water foliar spray?? a day or two after the first treatment??

    i just ordered the spinosad should leave monday and arrive sometime during the week(worms way is quick for me!) my question is HOW much to use?? per gallon of water?? what is the dilution ratio or the application rate?? again thank you so much kokua!!
    Last edited by nycdfan042; 07-03-2007, 21:57.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    I don't know to be perfectly honest. I treated in veg and didn't worry about flower. I don't like spraying anything in flower...I let the girls that had thrips in the flower room just do their thing while I treated the veg. The thrip infested plants will finish fine and wont compramise the final product...other than yield.

    At 4.5 and 3 weeks I might apply at least 1x to knock the populations for a loop. If you spray thoroughly enough you might be able to rid your 12/12 with one application!

    I like baccus He is a good guy and a good grower.

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  • nycdfan042
    kokua thank you.
    ill post the info we found about spinosad causing cancer...i hope we can dinf it again...after that link we found many others praising its good uses.

    So is this product only good for vegging clones/seeeedlings?? my bloom room is wel into flower...some plants are on week 4.5 and others are simply on week 3.....its prolly not a gooood idea to use it on them right???
    Last edited by nycdfan042; 07-03-2007, 21:57.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    thanks for posting that miss nycdf!!

    Cancer Information: For Spinosad, laboratory animal studies were negative.
    Teteratology: Spinosad did not cause birth defects in laboratory animals.

    nycdfan...can you link us up to the place you read that it causes cancer? The info miss posted says it doesn't. I haven't treated the rootzone itself. I didn't have to. I treated the foliage 3x over a period of about 14 days and that was more thrips. I can imagine it would be effective in your rootzone. I try to keep my soil food web as intact as possible so that I can take full advantage of my organic fertilizers. I don't know if the spinosad would negatively effect the micro's or very well might.

    digital hippy...aphids are an easy one. I will pm you with details.

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  • miss nycdf
    As posted in nycdfan's thread, here's the MSDS for the monterey garden insect spray... kind of a big blob of info, but:

    MONTEREY GARDEN INSECT SPRAY Page 1 of 4 Issue Date: 05/02
    Chemical Product
    EPA Reg. No. 62719-314-54705
    Common Name: Liquid insecticide.
    Chemical Description: Spinosad.
    TSCA/CAS No.: This product is a mixture – there is no specific CAS No.
    Manufactured For
    Lawn and Garden Products, Inc.
    P. O. Box 35000
    Fresno, CA 93745-5000
    Emergency Phone Numbers
    Emergency Telephone: DAYS: (559) 499-2100 EVES.: (559) 435-2163
    CHEMTREC (24-Hour Emergency Number): (800) 424-9300
    EPA National Response Center: (800) 424-8802
    Spinosad Spinosyn A 131929-60-7 0.5 *N.A. *N.P.
    Spinosyn D 131929-63-0
    Inert Ingredients, Total Including: 99.5
    Propylene Glycol 57-55-6 Proprietary N.A. N.P.
    * N.A. - Not Available.
    * N.P. - Not Pertinent.
    Off-white to tan liquid suspension with low odor. May cause eye irritation. Product is toxic to molluscs and bees. Not D.O.T. regulated.
    (0=Insignificant 1=Slight 2=Moderate 3=High 4=Extreme)
    Eyes: Hold eyes open and rinse slowly and gently with water for 15-20 minutes. Remove contact lenses, if present, after the first 5 minutes, then continue rinsing eyes. Call a poison control center or doctor for treatment advice.
    Skin: Take off contaminated clothing. Rinse skin immediately with plenty of water for 15-20 minutes. Call a poison control center or doctor for treatment advice.
    Ingestion: Call a poison control center or doctor immediately for treatment advice. Have person sip a glass of water if able to swallow. Do not induce vomiting unless told to do so by the poison control center or doctor. Never give anything by mouth to an unconscious person.
    MONTEREY GARDEN INSECT SPRAY Page 2 of 4 Issue Date: 05/02
    SECTION 4. FIRST AID (Continued)
    Inhalation: Move person to fresh air. If person is not breathing, call 911 or ambulance, then give artificial respiration, preferably by mouth-to-mouth. Call a poison control center or doctor for further treatment advice.
    NOTE TO PHYSICIAN: No specific antidote. Supportive care. Treatment based on judgment of the physician in response to reactions of the patient.
    Flash Point: Not determined (aqueous suspension).
    Test Method: Not applicable.
    LEL Flammable Limits: Not determined.
    UEL Flammable Limits: Not determined.
    Autoignition Temperature: Not determined.
    Flammability Classification: Noncombustible.
    Known Hazardous Products of Combustion: Not known.
    Properties that Initiate/Contribute to Intensity of Fire: None.
    Potential For Dust Explosion: None.
    Reactions that Release Flammable Gases or Vapors: Not known.
    Potential For Release of Flammable Vapors: None.
    Unusual Fire & Explosion Hazards: Under fire conditions some components of this product may decompose. The smoke may contain unidentified toxic and/or irritating compounds.
    Extinguishing Media: Water fog, carbon dioxide, dry chemical or foam.
    Special Firefighting Procedures: Wear positive pressure, self-contained breathing apparatus and full protective clothing. Avoid smoke inhalation. Contain any liquid runoff.
    Containment: Prevent product spillage from entering drinking water supplies or streams.
    Clean Up: Collect liquid or absorb onto absorbent material and package for disposal.
    Evacuation: Not necessary.
    Storage: Store in original container only in a cool, well-ventilated, dry place at temperatures above 40oF. Do not store near food or feeds. Do not stack pallets more than two (2) high.
    Transfer Equipment: Transfer product using chemical-resistant plastic or stainless steel tanks, pumps, valves, etc.
    Work/Hygienic Practices: Keep out of reach of children. Avoid contact with eyes, on skin or on clothing. Avoid breathing vapor or spray mists. Wear long-sleeved shirt and pants, waterproof gloves and shoes plus socks. Wash with soap and water after handling. Remove contaminated clothing and wash clothing before reuse. Do not contaminate feed and foodstuffs.
    Eyes: Chemical dust/splash goggles or full-face shield to prevent eye contact. As a general rule, do not wear contact lenses when handling.
    Skin: Impervious gloves and clothes.
    MONTEREY GARDEN INSECT SPRAY Page 3 of 4 Issue Date: 05/02
    Respiratory: Not normally needed. If use generates an aerosol mist or respiratory irritation, use NIOSH-approved dust/mist respirator (such as 3M #8710).
    Ventilation: Recommended but no TLV established.
    Appearance: Off-white to light tan liquid.
    Odor: Low odor.
    pH: Not available.
    Vapor Pressure: Similar to water.
    Vapor Density (Air=1): Not available.
    Boiling Point: 212°F (100°C).
    Freezing Point: Not available.
    Water Solubility: Dispersible.
    Density: 1.09 g/ml.
    Evaporation Rate: Not determined.
    Viscosity: Not available.
    % Volatile: Not available.
    Octanol/Water Partition Coefficient: Not available.
    Saturated Vapor Concentration: Not available.
    Stability: Thermally stable at typical use temperatures. Some componenets of this product can decompose at elevated temperatures.
    Conditions To Avoid: None known.
    Incompatibility: None known.
    Hazardous Decomposition Products: Hazardous decomposition products depend on temperature, air supply, and the presence of other materials.
    Hazardous Polymerization: Not known to occur.
    Acute Effects:
    Eyes: May cause slight eye irritation.
    Skin: Prolonged exposure is not likely to cause significant skin irritation. A single prolonged exposure is not likely to result in the material being absorbed through skin in harmful amounts. Did not cause allergic skin reactions when tested with guinea pigs. LD50 (Rabbits) > 5000 mg/kg.
    Ingestion: Single dose oral toxicity is extremely low. The oral LD50 for rats and mice is >5000 mg/kg. No hazards anticipated from swallowing small amounts incidental to normal handling operations.
    Inhalation: Single exposure to concentrate mist is not likely to cause adverse effects.
    Systemic (Other In animals, has been shown to cause vacuolation of cells in various tissues and
    Target Organ) Effects: changes in blood and serum biochemistry. Dose levels producing these effects were
    many times higher than any dose levels expected from exposure due to use.
    Cancer Information: For Spinosad, laboratory animal studies were negative.
    Teteratology: Spinosad did not cause birth defects in laboratory animals.
    Reproductive Effects: For Spinosad, in laboratory animal studies, effects on reproduction have been seen only at doses that produced significant toxicity to the parent animals.
    MONTEREY GARDEN INSECT SPRAY Page 4 of 4 Issue Date: 05/02
    Algal/Lemna Growth Inhibition: Not known.
    Toxicity to Fish and Invertebrates: Highly toxic to marine mollusks on an acute basis. Moderate or slightly toxic to fish.
    Toxicity to Plants: Not known.
    Toxicity in Birds: Practically non-toxic to birds on an acute basis.
    Do not contaminate lakes, streams, ponds, estuaries, oceans or other waters by discharge of waste effluents or equipment washwaters. Dispose of waste effluents in accordance with state and local waste disposal regulations. Also, chemical additions or other alterations of this product may invalidate any disposal information in this MSDS. Therefore, consult local waste regulators for proper disposal.
    D.O.T.: Not D.O.T. Regulated.
    Other Shipping Description: Insecticides and Fungicides, Liquid.
    NMFC Item 102120, LTL Class 60
    CERCLA: None.
    SARA TITLE III, Section 313 Toxic Chemicals: None.
    PROPOSITION 65 (CA): None.
    Chemical Name CAS No. LIST
    (Propylene Glycol) 57-55-6 PA1
    PA1 = Pennsylvania Hazardous Substance (present at > or = to 1.0%)
    All information appearing in this document was based on data provided by third party sources and was compiled to comply with the Federal Hazard Communication Standard and the California Hazardous Substances Information and Training Act. The information is believed to be accurate as of the preparation date, but is not warranted as being the final authority in the use of this product. This information does not purport to be legal or medical advice.

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  • nycdfan042
    but kokua wht about the root zones?? will this effectively kill the larvae

    edit also reading about spinosad being cancer causng agent, carcinogenic etc....yet when i read the informatino on worms way they say its safe for humans, plants and fruit and its OMRI im confused.....

    i know you are against mosquit dunks?? right?? someon help meout here please?? im going ape shit here.

    BTW excelent really are awesome for taking your time and doing this work....ill post my results..ordering the stuff 2-morrow(just got paid!)
    Last edited by nycdfan042; 06-30-2007, 06:01.

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    do you have anything for aphids?

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  • aeric
    You may have a point Kokua I may have just been lucky, I don't want to give the wrong info to anyone. To elaborate I didn't sterilize with bleach, but just used weaker cleaners like H2O2, hot water, etc....and they didn't come back. Standard recommended advice would be to use bleach.

    It's nice to know there's something out there that should be effective were they to make another appearance.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    heya aeric...thrips can and will overwinter/hang around long term if you let them.

    I wouldn't worry about the thrips anymore though guys...seriously this stuff works wonders. I have absolutely no fear of these little buggers anymore...I have a 100% effective control in the worries

    Bring on the thrips...

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  • Sauron The Blue
    Yeah these things are up there on my list of p.i.a. pests, they really are smarter than most as you fellas described. often people mix up spring tails with these as they jump about in the soil too, good post, never tried spinosad but I think I will give it a whirl.

    I have some bugs that in winter appear in my hydro reservoirs, I think they may be related to this, they look like large brown aphids and swim in the water, you can see them crawl across hardwood / carpeted flooring in a line like ants idea what they are, was hoping they were related to thrips but looking at the life cycle photo they don't look much like those.

    real buggers indeed! and since they are so small and zippy it makes me even more frustrated! squash em!

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  • aeric
    The only thing that worked for me long ago was an involuntary shutdown. Towards the end there I killed alot of 'em by hand, by that point i was going kookoo! They do seem a bit more intellegent than other pests. I could see them running to their tight little spaces, some of them would jump and I could feel them popping against my face. Spinosad sounds interesting though. The nice thing is that they don't come back like mites, say, from old equipment, pots etc....In the future I would probably take new cuts of everything, dip them in whatever, and start over.

    What a nighmare, I don't wanna talk about it anymore lol.

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  • Verite
    Excellent post. My experience with sprays and thrips was it knocked them out twice as easy as mites.. if it hits them. Mites are idiots compared to thrips that see well and scurry to hide. My other experience is when I had a small outbreak I could nail one of their life cycle stages once or twice and it knocked them out but once they got fully colonized I had to use nematodes in the soil cause mine was full of thrips, even found the bastards underneath my 5gal buckets. if I get them again I might have to check out the new magic juju.

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