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    #16
    Not a typical deficiency either. I had that recently and I put it as Iron + Ca, maybe some P as well. Intense leds and quite low feed in my case.
    "We ought never do wrong when people are looking." - Mark Twain

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      #17
      Originally posted by exploziv View Post
      Not a typical deficiency either. I had that recently and I put it as Iron + Ca, maybe some P as well. Intense leds and quite low feed in my case.
      The plot thickens!

      I'm feeding at about 800ppms. Runoff is roughly the same. It's just odd that it's only this plant. They're all a clone of the same plant. I'm aware of the LED phenomenon. I'm running CMHs in flower. This did start to happen a few days after flip. They're at day 15 now.

      I've been alternating foliars, (MOST & MKP) to see if there's any change. It doesn't seem like it's getting any worse, but it's hard to tell.

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        #18
        Originally posted by ButterflyEffect View Post

        PPM is 800. Runoff is roughly the same. Now I'm getting 3 different possibilities. This is part of what makes diagnosing plant issues so difficult.

        You're saying Phosphorus, Another is saying Calcium, and yet one more is saying that Boron is holding back the Ca.

        Very frustrating to say the least.
        All I can say for sure is that this is phosphorus deficiency/lockout.

        https://www.greenboxgrown.com/phosphorus-deficiency

        The blotchy patches are in the right place of the leaf, one of the leaves is curled upward, and the deficiency is mobile in that the higher up the plant the less the damage. Calcium is a non-mobile deficiency that is mainly limited to the tops of the plant, and sometimes a large leaf that sticks out lower on the plant.

        Phosphate is locked out by: potassium, calcium, copper, iron, zinc.

        https://static.occnewspaper.com/wp-c...-2-800x570.jpg

        There is a Jack's Hydro that has a high K level. I'd have to know exactly which of the many, many Jack's Hydro, and specifically the NPK.

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          #19
          Originally posted by TanzanianMagic View Post

          All I can say for sure is that this is phosphorus deficiency/lockout.

          https://www.greenboxgrown.com/phosphorus-deficiency

          The blotchy patches are in the right place of the leaf, one of the leaves is curled upward, and the deficiency is mobile in that the higher up the plant the less the damage. Calcium is a non-mobile deficiency that is mainly limited to the tops of the plant, and sometimes a large leaf that sticks out lower on the plant.

          Phosphate is locked out by: potassium, calcium, copper, iron, zinc.

          https://static.occnewspaper.com/wp-c...-2-800x570.jpg

          There is a Jack's Hydro that has a high K level. I'd have to know exactly which of the many, many Jack's Hydro, and specifically the NPK.
          I'm inclined to say that you're spot on.

          I'm pretty sure I know why but I don't know the best way to fix it. I run Hempy pots with perlite & vermiculite and I push the feed out to runoff at lights on and then again 6 hours later. I know that P leaches out very quickly in a medium like mine. Combine that with the ramped up need for P in early flower and we have recipe for disaster.

          I've also noticed that, not only in this run, which is at day 30 but also the other one that's at day 15, the older leaves snap off very easily and there's a slight purpling to the stems and petioles.

          I just adjusted my cycle timers to add a 3rd feed. So now it's one at lights on, a second 4 hours later, and a third fours hours after that. I can add more if needed.

          I really want to get away from the hempy pots but I'm not sure what the best media and method would be. I have to be careful because I can't switch to something that uses more water than I use now. I only get so much rain and until I address that, I have to be cautious.

          Do you have any other suggestions for getting more P quickly? I'm going to foliar with MKP tonight as a start, although I'm concerned about the added K.

          Thanks for the help!

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            #20
            The Jacks I use is the 5-12-26. 3-2 ratio with CalNit. No added Mg. pH to 5.5-5.8

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              #21
              Well if you are feeding 2 times a day and its still showing, as TanzanianMagic said maybe too much K is locking it out. A flush to lower the K levels would be a good option. Lockout problems are harder to diagnose than regular deficiencies, because plants eat more of what they need and leave behind more of what they don't. So those accumulate and play with the absorbtion of others when they get to certain elevated levels. But the diagnosis you got sure seems bang on. You could also look for nutrients with less K and more P..
              And thank you, TanzanianMagic , your replies in this thread helped me see that my problem was P deficiency and Iron deficiency, not Ca and Iron, and maybe P, as I tought initially. In my case I just didn't keep up with the feeding, should have upped the EC way earlier than I did.
              "We ought never do wrong when people are looking." - Mark Twain

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                #22
                Originally posted by exploziv View Post
                Well if you are feeding 2 times a day and its still showing, as TanzanianMagic said maybe too much K is locking it out. A flush to lower the K levels would be a good option. Lockout problems are harder to diagnose than regular deficiencies, because plants eat more of what they need and leave behind more of what they don't. So those accumulate and play with the absorbtion of others when they get to certain elevated levels. But the diagnosis you got sure seems bang on. You could also look for nutrients with less K and more P..
                And thank you, TanzanianMagic , your replies in this thread helped me see that my problem was P deficiency and Iron deficiency, not Ca and Iron, and maybe P, as I tought initially. In my case I just didn't keep up with the feeding, should have upped the EC way earlier than I did.
                I was concerned that the K from the MKP foliar would be adding too much, not necessarily that the Jacks 5-12-26 had too much.

                For now, I'm doing a daily foliar with MKP and adding a 3rd feed.

                Any other thoughts on adding just plant available P, let me know.

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                  #23
                  Originally posted by ButterflyEffect View Post

                  You're saying Phosphorus, Another is saying Calcium, and yet one more is saying that Boron is holding back the Ca.

                  Very frustrating to say the least.
                  Calcium deficiency will curl the margin of new growth into side skirts. If it's Boron the entire midrib will curve, not just the soft tissue. Deficiencies don't start on old growth. That's not how plants work. Blisters on new growth become necrosis on old growth. Those dark halos are sugars attempting to penetrate the scar tissue. You can tell exactly what your nutrient profile is by where the sugars are stalled in the plant. No Boron and low Zinc.

                  Rid your mind of weed forum nonsense of you want to learn how plants grow. No one on these forums understands any of the buzzwords and acronyms they throw around. The internet weed scene is like special Olympics autism camp. Guys renaming basic things and talking out there ass 99.999999999999999999999999999 9% of the time. It's fucking sad. Sponsored by nute companies who purposely fuck everyone's grow up and propped up by dumbass marks and shitseed shills.

                  ​​​​​​​ #watertek #livingsuperkashi #originaloghazeskunk #doyouevenvpdbro

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                    #24
                    Originally posted by Devoted2rolling View Post

                    Calcium deficiency will curl the margin of new growth into side skirts. If it's Boron the entire midrib will curve, not just the soft tissue. Deficiencies don't start on old growth. That's not how plants work. Blisters on new growth become necrosis on old growth. Those dark halos are sugars attempting to penetrate the scar tissue. You can tell exactly what your nutrient profile is by where the sugars are stalled in the plant. No Boron and low Zinc.

                    Rid your mind of weed forum nonsense of you want to learn how plants grow. No one on these forums understands any of the buzzwords and acronyms they throw around. The internet weed scene is like special Olympics autism camp. Guys renaming basic things and talking out there ass 99.999999999999999999999999999 9% of the time. It's fucking sad. Sponsored by nute companies who purposely fuck everyone's grow up and propped up by dumbass marks and shitseed shills.

                    #watertek #livingsuperkashi #originaloghazeskunk #doyouevenvpdbro
                    I've noticed a lot of misinformation for sure. Not saying anyone on this post, of course, but I've seen it and I get why certain folks would want to screw up grows. I think some of the more complex nuances just elude some people. There are indeed a lot of complexities to growing.

                    That said, are you saying that I have a Boron and Zinc issue? How do I actually learn to figure these things out on my own?

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                      #25
                      Originally posted by ButterflyEffect View Post

                      I was concerned that the K from the MKP foliar would be adding too much, not necessarily that the Jacks 5-12-26 had too much.

                      For now, I'm doing a daily foliar with MKP and adding a 3rd feed.

                      Any other thoughts on adding just plant available P, let me know.
                      It doesn't happen that way. The antagonism are happening in the soil/growing medium, so because there is too much K in the rootzone, P absorbtion is blocked.
                      The foliars are just a fast way of adding nutes straight to the leaves, even when soil nutrient balance or PH is broken. So this is most probably NOT happening because of the foliar. If anything at all, those have helped keep them better.
                      "We ought never do wrong when people are looking." - Mark Twain

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                        #26
                        Originally posted by exploziv View Post

                        It doesn't happen that way. The antagonism are happening in the soil/growing medium, so because there is too much K in the rootzone, P absorbtion is blocked.
                        The foliars are just a fast way of adding nutes straight to the leaves, even when soil nutrient balance or PH is broken. So this is most probably NOT happening because of the foliar. If anything at all, those have helped keep them better.
                        Ok cool. I'm good then. The Jacks I use is very well balanced, so there isn't too much K, or anything in excess.

                        That's good to know about the rootzone vs foliar. I didn't know that. Thanks for that nugget!

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                          #27
                          Why does your rainwater read 30ppm, I use rainwater and mine reads zero, what are you catching the water in, what is the surface material of the roof and or any metal fittings in the piping, do you live near the coast.

                          Had a buddy that was using zincalume rain tanks catching from a gal roof and it did similar to his plants, for him it was zinc toxicity, not a deficiency.

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                            #28
                            Its not Phosphorus or you wouldn't have resin on the buds. Its not Boron because Boron is the catalyst nutrient the very first nutrient on the chain link to begin the nutrient chain. Your plant would not even be here if it were out of boron. Also to respond to Tarzan comment, if you have a complete fertilizer and maintain the proper pH, there is no way you can have a lack of any nutrient or OD your plant into lock-out.

                            Most fertilizers are made with the home grower in mind. Most home growers use tap water that is buffered with calcium hydroxide and so most fertilizer companies hold back the calcium for this reason. If you use RO or Rain you need to add cal-mag to the water to stabilize it and fortify it with Calcium and mag. There is not enough Calcium in most fertilizers and needs to be supplemented when using Rain or RO "not tap". If your mix is buffered properly there would be no problems. If you were over-feeding the other plants would show the same disorder. https://www.marijuana-seeds.nl/blog/...y-in-marijuana My apologies for the mixed messages. I'm out of here. 😎

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                              #29
                              Originally posted by Roadblock View Post
                              Why does your rainwater read 30ppm, I use rainwater and mine reads zero, what are you catching the water in, what is the surface material of the roof and or any metal fittings in the piping, do you live near the coast.

                              Had a buddy that was using zincalume rain tanks catching from a gal roof and it did similar to his plants, for him it was zinc toxicity, not a deficiency.
                              Other than the occasional sanitizing I do with bleach, I'm not really sure. It goes up to 50-60ppm in the spring when the trees are blooming, but other than that who knows. I treated the roof so it wouldn't leach anything and the tanks are plastic. I do run the water through a 2 stage sediment filter and then a 4x10 big blue carbon block.

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                                #30
                                Originally posted by Creeperpark View Post
                                Its not Phosphorus or you wouldn't have resin on the buds. Its not Boron because Boron is the catalyst nutrient the very first nutrient on the chain link to begin the nutrient chain. Your plant would not even be here if it were out of boron. Also to respond to Tarzan comment, if you have a complete fertilizer and maintain the proper pH, there is no way you can have a lack of any nutrient or OD your plant into lock-out.

                                Most fertilizers are made with the home grower in mind. Most home growers use tap water that is buffered with calcium hydroxide and so most fertilizer companies hold back the calcium for this reason. If you use RO or Rain you need to add cal-mag to the water to stabilize it and fortify it with Calcium and mag. There is not enough Calcium in most fertilizers and needs to be supplemented when using Rain or RO "not tap". If your mix is buffered properly there would be no problems. If you were over-feeding the other plants would show the same disorder. https://www.marijuana-seeds.nl/blog/...y-in-marijuana My apologies for the mixed messages. I'm out of here. 😎
                                Thanks again for the help creeper!

                                I'm using the Jacks Hyro 5-12-26 with their CalNit at a 3:2 ratio. Other than completely switching the food around, which I'm not entirely comfortable with at this point, the only thing I think I could do would be to move closer to a 1:1 ratio. This way there would be more calcium in the mix. Do you think this would work the same way as adding calmag prior? If not, how would I do that? Like I said earlier, each res is filled with water and mixed about 6-8 hours before it gets pumped and each res lasts 3-4 days.

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