Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Mg??

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #31
    Thank you, lights are pretty dimmed right now and I can still see problems. Will try to raise them a bit, but I suspect with lights at 25% and 30 cm away that is not the problem. Used burple leds before and I had no dimmer in those, had no problems.
    Its very weird and I used a lot of things hoping to see a change, and nothing seems to fix it other than crazy ammounts of ca and mg.
    "We ought never do wrong when people are looking." - Mark Twain

    Comment


      #32
      Hey GC. The image you have quoted is from our infirmary. It's over feed. Generally to much salt, though not specifically sodium. However sodium toxicity does look very similar when seen in other plants. Finding pics in canna has proved difficult. Plants are not particularly good at blocking sodium uptake. Coconut trees have just learn to live with it. Sodium can take the place of K in many plant species, as much as 80%. Causing a softening of fruits. We have to suppress it's competition with the K,Ca,Mg triangle, by keeping their levels high. My problem is starting to look like a combination of small pots and salty coco. Small pots give a rapid dry down, which causes rapid EC changes. Not especially dry (unless like this time, I messed up) but still a fair swing. My EC is about 0.7 in order to keep the upward swing in check. It's perhaps not enough to suppress the Sodium. I'm stuck with the coco giving out sodium and potassium, while I must balance up the Ca and Mg needs. My Ca is very low, and still I can't get enough Mg in there. The total feed concentration becomes too high and they don't take it. What I can do is run very low EC, while banging up the lights to get it moving through the plants. Spraying Mg on them. It's a full time job balancing it all though. I have quite a bit of root compared to coco, which is physically braking it up releasing this toxic sodium that coconuts have learned to live with, but canna hasn't.

      I do wonder why this has been getting more problematic. Over the years I have had good and bad bags of canna coco, and heard the excuses why. Look at the worldwide trade of coco, demand must of soared with legalisation in many states. There is pressure on the supply chain to get it rotted down, and out the pits, as quick as possible. There is a parallel time line between my problems and legalisation. I have to wonder.

      One thing stands out. My browning hairs problem comes on the same day almost every time. When demand for flower food increases, I'm lowering my EC as my over feed like issue are coming on strong. It stands to reason they are looking for K and sucking up sodium. A refusal to eat comes hand in hand. I think others are able to bang up the feed to suppressing levels. While my faster dry back stops me.


      I don't want to talk about my other thread here, but when I tried larger containers and many waterings per day, my water was as 'flat' as last years lemonade. I had a fungus problem in the tank that was sucking all the oxygen out. I had to culture the stuff to see it. I was using a black feed and putting in so many seaweed products and microlife, I had mistaken what I was seeing. I have the pump that works with H2O2 now, and remember that coco isn't meant to smell a bit like soil. Damn creeping problems.. But that seems to of been the odd leaf patterning and mild lower wilting. The brown hairs are still with me. Along with the stripes. Which I'm looking at sodium for.

      Another forum uses this pic as it's main cover image for the deficiency section. Later it appears in the Mg section.
      Click image for larger version  Name:	Magnesium_deficiency_marijuana.jpg Views:	0 Size:	122.3 KB ID:	17942030

      I am quite convinced it's Mg, but I just can't get enough in, as my total salts get silly. I was interested in peoples opinions if Mg was taken away as an option, but I just can't get away from it being Mg when I put the ideas together with the full knowledge I have of my problem (which the people offering advice won't know all of). My K Ca Mg triangle is saturated by sodium and potasium from the coco, before I get to add the Ca and Mg requirements of this LED grow.

      Or I could be wrong. It's certainly open for debate

      My feed of choice has always been Ionic. I switch to others, but always come back. The coco feed, by listing, is just 50ppm Ca and while Mg is listed as present, no value is given. I don't think any list Mg quantities. So it's traditionally the issue I see, as I guess we are meant to use our own, dependent on our grows/taps. It works in bigger buckets where their is a greater volume of everything. I reckon my life long mission to use tiny pots has found a limit though. It's a shame, 1L of coco supported 4.5oz plants using just ionic a few years ago. Now I'm lucky to get 2oz with no real changes. The plants refuse to eat from week 3 of bloom, and by day 24 hairs are burning. 10 days later, some strains are fried. The advance of browning increasing every day. Regardless of how I feed.

      Comment


        #33
        Originally posted by exploziv View Post
        Thank you, lights are pretty dimmed right now and I can still see problems. Will try to raise them a bit, but I suspect with lights at 25% and 30 cm away that is not the problem. Used burple leds before and I had no dimmer in those, had no problems.
        Its very weird and I used a lot of things hoping to see a change, and nothing seems to fix it other than crazy ammounts of ca and mg.
        I noticed that it’s better to keep the lights hanging high and use more watts than keeping the lights very close to canopy and using less watts.
        At first i also used my cobs/leds quite close to canopy around 30-40cm but i got the yellowing happening very easily. Then i raised my cobs to hang about 75cm above canopy and noticed i could use much, much more light without the plants getting damaged
        ...meaning, the so called “inverse square law” of light intensity doesn’t seemingly work with modern LEDs and cannabis growing = once you have the LEDs raised high enough, you can have more lumens on canopy level without the plants getting damaged, compared to if you have the LEDs very close to canopy and you try to dim the light down to suit your plants.

        As an example, if you want to achieve 700 ppfd on canopy level, it’s better to raise the LEDs quite high (75cm+) above canopy and to use more watts to get to that level, than trying to achieve that 700 ppfd level by having the LEDs very close to canopy (30-40cm)

        Do you understand what i’m trying to say with this? English isn’t my first language so i’m struggling abit to find the right words to explain this any better.

        9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB
        ****

        Comment


          #34
          Originally posted by f-e View Post
          Hey GC. The image you have quoted is from our infirmary. It's over feed. Generally to much salt, though not specifically sodium. However sodium toxicity does look very similar when seen in other plants. Finding pics in canna has proved difficult. Plants are not particularly good at blocking sodium uptake. Coconut trees have just learn to live with it. Sodium can take the place of K in many plant species, as much as 80%. Causing a softening of fruits. We have to suppress it's competition with the K,Ca,Mg triangle, by keeping their levels high. My problem is starting to look like a combination of small pots and salty coco. Small pots give a rapid dry down, which causes rapid EC changes. Not especially dry (unless like this time, I messed up) but still a fair swing. My EC is about 0.7 in order to keep the upward swing in check. It's perhaps not enough to suppress the Sodium. I'm stuck with the coco giving out sodium and potassium, while I must balance up the Ca and Mg needs. My Ca is very low, and still I can't get enough Mg in there. The total feed concentration becomes too high and they don't take it. What I can do is run very low EC, while banging up the lights to get it moving through the plants. Spraying Mg on them. It's a full time job balancing it all though. I have quite a bit of root compared to coco, which is physically braking it up releasing this toxic sodium that coconuts have learned to live with, but canna hasn't.

          I do wonder why this has been getting more problematic. Over the years I have had good and bad bags of canna coco, and heard the excuses why. Look at the worldwide trade of coco, demand must of soared with legalisation in many states. There is pressure on the supply chain to get it rotted down, and out the pits, as quick as possible. There is a parallel time line between my problems and legalisation. I have to wonder.

          One thing stands out. My browning hairs problem comes on the same day almost every time. When demand for flower food increases, I'm lowering my EC as my over feed like issue are coming on strong. It stands to reason they are looking for K and sucking up sodium. A refusal to eat comes hand in hand. I think others are able to bang up the feed to suppressing levels. While my faster dry back stops me.


          I don't want to talk about my other thread here, but when I tried larger containers and many waterings per day, my water was as 'flat' as last years lemonade. I had a fungus problem in the tank that was sucking all the oxygen out. I had to culture the stuff to see it. I was using a black feed and putting in so many seaweed products and microlife, I had mistaken what I was seeing. I have the pump that works with H2O2 now, and remember that coco isn't meant to smell a bit like soil. Damn creeping problems.. But that seems to of been the odd leaf patterning and mild lower wilting. The brown hairs are still with me. Along with the stripes. Which I'm looking at sodium for.

          Another forum uses this pic as it's main cover image for the deficiency section. Later it appears in the Mg section.
          Click image for larger version Name:	Magnesium_deficiency_marijuana.jpg Views:	0 Size:	122.3 KB ID:	17942030

          I am quite convinced it's Mg, but I just can't get enough in, as my total salts get silly. I was interested in peoples opinions if Mg was taken away as an option, but I just can't get away from it being Mg when I put the ideas together with the full knowledge I have of my problem (which the people offering advice won't know all of). My K Ca Mg triangle is saturated by sodium and potasium from the coco, before I get to add the Ca and Mg requirements of this LED grow.

          Or I could be wrong. It's certainly open for debate

          My feed of choice has always been Ionic. I switch to others, but always come back. The coco feed, by listing, is just 50ppm Ca and while Mg is listed as present, no value is given. I don't think any list Mg quantities. So it's traditionally the issue I see, as I guess we are meant to use our own, dependent on our grows/taps. It works in bigger buckets where their is a greater volume of everything. I reckon my life long mission to use tiny pots has found a limit though. It's a shame, 1L of coco supported 4.5oz plants using just ionic a few years ago. Now I'm lucky to get 2oz with no real changes. The plants refuse to eat from week 3 of bloom, and by day 24 hairs are burning. 10 days later, some strains are fried. The advance of browning increasing every day. Regardless of how I feed.
          OK so the picture i commented on wasn’t one of your plants? Maybe you should just show photos of your plants so we could actually see whats going on..

          Anyways, the damage on the plant in the photo i commented on(post # 27) was caused by light intensity (upwards tacoing and yellowing leaves), that is not what over feeding looks like = the yellowing/taco is happening only on the other side of the top (assuming the light side) but on the other side of the top the leaves seem to look greener. If that would be nute burn-yellowing the tops would look yellow/burned on both sides


          LED dehydrated leaves can develop brown, nute burn like spots if the plant was being fed heavily when it dried out and the yellowing happened, because the EC level of the moisture in the plant tissue rises when the water evaporates away ...so that’s why the LED radiation damage can look abit like nute burn, but the real cause of this is the leaf getting dehydrated because of LED radiation intensity.

          9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB
          ****

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by GoatCheese View Post

            I noticed that it’s better to keep the lights hanging high and use more watts than keeping the lights very close to canopy and using less watts.
            At first i also used my cobs/leds quite close to canopy around 30-40cm but i got the yellowing happening very easily. Then i raised my cobs to hang about 75cm above canopy and noticed i could use much, much more light without the plants getting damaged
            ...meaning, the so called “inverse square law” of light intensity doesn’t seemingly work with modern LEDs and cannabis growing = once you have the LEDs raised high enough, you can have more lumens on canopy level without the plants getting damaged, compared to if you have the LEDs very close to canopy and you try to dim the light down to suit your plants.

            As an example, if you want to achieve 700 ppfd on canopy level, it’s better to raise the LEDs quite high (75cm+) above canopy and to use more watts to get to that level, than trying to achieve that 700 ppfd level by having the LEDs very close to canopy (30-40cm)

            Do you understand what i’m trying to say with this? English isn’t my first language so i’m struggling abit to find the right words to explain this any better.
            Yeah man, it is pretty clear. Thank you. Will do a test with it further away and with more power from the dimmer for a while, see how it goes.
            "We ought never do wrong when people are looking." - Mark Twain

            Comment


              #36
              Originally posted by GoatCheese View Post

              OK so the picture i commented on wasn’t one of your plants? Maybe you should just show photos of your plants so we could actually see whats going on..

              Anyways, the damage on the plant in the photo i commented on(post # 27) was caused by light intensity (upwards tacoing and yellowing leaves), that is not what over feeding looks like = the yellowing/taco is happening only on the other side of the top (assuming the light side) but on the other side of the top the leaves seem to look greener. If that would be nute burn-yellowing the tops would look yellow/burned on both sides


              LED dehydrated leaves can develop brown, nute burn like spots if the plant was being fed heavily when it dried out and the yellowing happened, because the EC level of the moisture in the plant tissue rises when the water evaporates away ...so that’s why the LED radiation damage can look abit like nute burn, but the real cause of this is the leaf getting dehydrated because of LED radiation intensity.
              This pic?
              Click image for larger version Name:	picture.php?albumid=35318&pictureid=834129.jpg Views:	0 Size:	164.9 KB ID:	17941635

              That's from our infirmary, used as over feed. It's probably in soil with too much K, as it's burning them and suppressing Mg. The pic is much older than LED use. It's not just scorched at the top. It's all over.
              I see strong parallels to light burn though. I just bumped a thread on such issues. Talking about if K might be the problem. I didn't say there, but we keep adding more Ca, but excess Ca helps K along, rather than competes with it.

              I'm off to buy some soil lol

              Comment


                #37
                Even if that photo was taken of a HPS grown plant, the damage was still mainly caused by heat radiation, that’s not normal nute burn, imo; the leaves in the front are more dried out/yellow than the leaves on the other side of the top (thou you can see only few of them), which to me says the more damaged side was facing the light source. Also the lower you go the greener the leaves are.
                ..if you look at the lower leaves on that photo that aren’t so damaged, there’s hardly even tip burn from too heavy feeding, so i doubt too heavy feeding was the main issue with that plant. Sure there is nute burn damage there but imo it was caused by the plant drying out

                HPS heat damage or LED radiation damage are essentially the same thing, in which the leaf has dehydrated because of radiation. ..and why it looks like a nute burn with the brown spots is because the EC value in the plant tissue went up when the moisture started evaporating off the leaf.
                But enough of that old photo, it's not important.


                -
                -
                Yea, soil is quite easy grow medium once you get the watering cycle right, not over or under watering your plants. No need for EC or pH meters if you live in an area with good and stable tap water. I haven’t measured the pH of my tap water in a decade or more but we have fairly stable water over here.

                Plants can yield quite well in soil too but you just have to veg them longer/larger before you start flowering them, cause the growth is slower than with hydro growing.

                For soil growing, i recommend you look into organic nutrients. With mineral nutes you have to worry about salt build up in soil; give them a proper flush few times a month, that is. organic stuff is quite care free once you find the proper nute strength for your plants.

                Sorry, i can’t tell you what are the best organic nutes for cannabis growing. I use BioBizz nutes, as you know, but i use them mainly cause they are fairly cheap (high concentration) not because i’d know they are better nutes than some other line. BioBizz aren’t cannabis specific nutes and they give you abit too much Nitrogen for later half of bloom, so i have started replacing some of the Grow-component with PK13/14 to lower the N levels during the last few weeks that i give my plants nutrients. But too much Nitrogen for flowering stages is a problem with other nute lines also, not just BioBizz, imo.

                9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB
                ****

                Comment

                Working...
                X