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A Twisted Satori or Three

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  • moose eater
    replied
    Originally posted by Creeperpark View Post
    Moose eater you are keeping up with everything nicely, and you know your stuff really well and thank you for sharing.
    Mold can hide under the epidermis of the leaf, or stem, and can lie dormant, for a long time, without being seen. The spores look for a dark, cool place where air does not circulate well, then the spore sinks its little feet, called "hyphae," into the spaces that make up the surface of leaf. When using clones you are most likely transporting cuttings that have these hyphae attached under the epidermis. Every clone from that plant will have hyphae attached to it and infect any other plants it can call a good host. Before the hyphae become mycelium and start growing on the tissue it will wait for the right conditions. "Boom, mold problem" . I don't use anything that is cloned ever! I only grow from seed every time for a good reason! 😎
    Thanks.

    Out of consistency and habit, I've been maintaining some of the current mothers from clones for over 20 years; my California Indica (Dronkers' Sensi Seeds, from Amsterdam (circa 1997 from there to home in places not discussed), the original Arjan's Greenhouse Super Lemon Haze (going on 20 years old now), and a couple others that are starting to walk a bit like I do, with a cane and a grimace.

    The Cali Indica I've kept as she has a very distinct UP Up and AWAY high, is an amazingly productive plant, and she's typically easy to trim. She was also the first plant I sorted out after we built our home here, having moved back North from the Coastal area of S. Central Alaska, in 1997.

    Your reference to 'the right conditions' rings true. The HRV is critical, and as described, the bug screening and particulate screening that I place on the intake areas in the summer, cause a reduction in air-changes via pressure restriction. When I go into the shop, and I start smelling musty smells, I know it's past time to clean the core and other parts of the HRV. Therein exists the 'perfect' or 'necessary conditions' for mold.

    In the summer time, when we're watering the veggie gardens outside, I flip the ball valves on the mechanical wall near the shop into a position where they can bypass the softener, and let the various manifolds and sprinklers on stands in the veggie and potato gardens do their thing. Unfortunately, with the differential in temperature between ground water and air temperature, the pipes sweat like a bastard as often as not, and thus, moisture is introduced into an environment that is -sometimes- (not always) struggling for proper air changes.

    It's a known risk, and more easily avoided in the winter, when the restrictions don't exist on the HRV's intake, but winter also brings other similar challenges, like having the unit going into auto-defrost mode every 12 minutes or so (by disconnecting the thermistor in the circuit board, to cause it to panic.. more or less to my and its benefit.. but sometimes....) Some of the down-sides of living in an extremely efficient, warm, tight house that relies on 'imported air' from such devices, and knowing that in the Sub-Arctic, where we need HRV's and the like the most, happens to also be the places where they function the most poorly. Murphy strikes again!! ;^>)

    I keep hoping that Venn Mar & LifeBreath will make peace with each other, and incorporate Venn Mar's HRV case or 'shell' to LifeBreath's aluminum core, and have a truly winning product, but that's not how capitalism works most of the time.

    Mostly done clipping the Satori #2, and mildly worried about the Satori #5, as it has a purplish hue to the sugar-trim leaves on the flowers reminiscent of what I think is either a zinc or manganese def., and she's close to meeting the Grim reaper, so feeding her anything is off the table. Going to have to decide something or other with her, as the White Lotus #4 and the Goji OG #8 are very nicely cloudy with their trichomes, and the bracts are plump, with pistils fully retracted (except for the smattering of new pistils).

    I've come to believe that indoors, these girls of different strains are like a sorority of women whose cycles all come to align over time to the same basic part of the month. seriously. 4 strains, flipped to 12:12 on different days, with supposedly different ripening times, and they all seem to come at me at once, ripe in the same 3-4 day period. Like growing broccoli, and ending up with 36 heads all at once; a "what do I do NOW??!!" moment, for sure.

    As far as my skill set and ganja production, I often tell folks I've been growing with a hefty dose of beginners luck for decades, and only when I delve too deeply, chasing things down rabbit holes best left alone, do I make things too complicated, and fuck things up worse than they were.. A Buddhist (or other) life's challenge to find satisfaction where it is, instead of looking over another rainbow for Nirvana, so to speak.

    Thanks for the exchange, compliments, input, information, and more. I'm off to finish a glass of Aussie red wine, eat a couple more smoked almonds, and call it a day.

    Take care.

    Leave a comment:


  • Creeperpark
    replied
    Moose eater you are keeping up with everything nicely, and you know your stuff really well and thank you for sharing.
    Mold can hide under the epidermis of the leaf, or stem, and can lie dormant, for a long time, without being seen. The spores look for a dark, cool place where air does not circulate well, then the spore sinks its little feet, called "hyphae," into the spaces that make up the surface of leaf. When using clones you are most likely transporting cuttings that have these hyphae attached under the epidermis. Every clone from that plant will have hyphae attached to it and infect any other plants it can call a good host. Before the hyphae become mycelium and start growing on the tissue it will wait for the right conditions. "Boom, mold problem" . I don't use anything that is cloned ever! I only grow from seed every time for a good reason! 😎

    Leave a comment:


  • moose eater
    replied
    Originally posted by Creeperpark View Post
    Mold is a symptom, or side effect of something being out of balance in the environment. If one limits the amount of excess nutrient exposure they give to the plant, they can minimize mold and other common plant problems. 😎
    I'd given a clone of each (Satori 2 & 5) to a friend in the bush, who had them under weak lights on maintenance until he could put them in a greenhouse. Most of the summer, when it was relatively warm and sunny (lots of days it wasn't) he had a number of walls open in the greenhouse, so they could catch cross-drafts, and air. He uses a very different base in his mixes than I use, and his crops are typically beautiful.

    He also had the early presence of bud rot with one of the two Satori clones I gifted him.

    In the end, I suspect that She's persnickety about her humidity levels, and may be, if for no other reason than her style of bud formation, prone to bud rot.

    None the less, with two primary colas on the Satori 2 here having early stages of bud rot that wasn't pervasive enough to not be cut out, and the rest retained, and the Satori 5 having none of that thus far, I didn't take too bad of a hit.

    Before this experience, had I chosen which of the 2 I was going to keep, if I had to discard one of them, it would've likely been the Satori 2 I'd have kept. But I believe at this time, I'd give serious thought to retaining the Satori 5, due to the absence of bud rot.

    Mind you, I have scant knowledge at this time if Satori 2 will do as she did last time, and out-produce Satori 5, and my friend in the bush had the reverse experience with them, getting more flower weight from #5. Different settings, mixes, environmental factors, etc., all contributed to the different outcomes, no doubt. Including the fact that he had sun in a greenhouse, and I had 315 CMH and augmentation from some LED floods in each corner of the boxes.

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  • Creeperpark
    replied
    Mold is a symptom, or side effect of something being out of balance in the environment. If one limits the amount of excess nutrient exposure they give to the plant, they can minimize mold and other common plant problems. 😎

    Leave a comment:


  • moose eater
    replied
    Originally posted by Creeperpark View Post
    Super job, those buds look super. Lucky you, I love Satori and is a favorite weed for me. You have a very nice color on those buds. Get yourself a meter for the next time. Every grower should have a EC or a TDS meter as well as a pH meter.😎
    I like her quite a bit as well, but this time around, the happier She became, and the more ripe She got, the more prone to bud rot she was becoming. Only 2 primary colas affected thus far, but that's 2 too many, in my opinion.

    I even got a tiny bit of bud rot in the White Lotus #4 have; rarely seen this in recent years. Though, admittedly, it was a damp spring and summer, and the HRV intake is slowed/constricte4d in the summer by noseeum mesh and a MERV 8 pre-filter, in order to prolong the life of the core between cleanings.

    Between the 2 variables, I've been running about 55% humidity in the shop, though with fairly consistent and voluminous air flow.

    Thanks for the compliments, by the way. I've never used an EC meter, but tried to pay attention to the soilless mix contents, which are still being micro-dialed in.. Closer to good, but not quite there yet. Maybe seeking perfection has been a disability, too. ;^>)

    Leave a comment:


  • Creeperpark
    replied
    Super job, those buds look super. Lucky you, I love Satori and is a favorite weed for me. You have a very nice color on those buds. Get yourself a meter for the next time. Every grower should have a EC or a TDS meter as well as a pH meter.😎

    Leave a comment:


  • moose eater
    replied
    She (the Satori #2) turned out more than acceptably, despite the deformities in the leaves of the 2.5 plants.

    Had to trim a couple primary colas that were McHuge, when I discovered bud rot within, early enough to avoid cat-ass-trophy.

    But here She be; some of the larger intermediate colas (medium large, but not the primaries) from the effort. Sticky, trichomes aplenty, and I never ended up getting the EC/TDS meter, as too much money went out for the fishing trip to the Yukon Territory.

    The Satori #5, more bushy, but slightly smaller stature, and more dense in foliage, has similarly sized colas, but no bud rot yet. Not even the minimal amount I found in Satori #2. Hmmm. Nor did #5 have any of the deformed leaf stuff going on. Same humidity and temps, etc., though the limited amount of rot I found in the Satori 2 was admittedly in the far side of the box from the cross-room air flow from the intake into the shop, to the effluent that travels through the carbon box.

    Another would-be nightmare with a happy ending.

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  • buzzmobile
    replied
    Originally posted by moose eater View Post
    And there's no critters in there that I've seen recently; yellow sticky traps x 5 in each area (and let me add that THOSE things have become unreasonably and inexplicably -expensive-!! Why??!)
    Yellow plastic folders cut into appropriate sizes with a light smear of tanglefoot cuts out the unreasonable and inexplicable. Wear gloves.
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  • moose eater
    replied
    Thanks, rev.

    Yes, the reason I mentioned the watering regimen they received while I was laid up, was that the person helping me didn't have a lot of experience, and if a peat-based medium is permitted to dry too much, watering can result in run-off that -looks- like it got a good drink, but, in fact, has ample dry pockets around what had otherwise been healthy roots. And I saw some evidence of that when I transplanted them from the 5" to 6" pots, into the 7-gallon pots they're in now.

    The other possibility, and not exclusive of what I just described, might be a limited fungus relative to excess dry conditions, followed by excessive watering, trying to make up lost ground.

    Who knows?

    It's not the entire plant that's involved, even on the 2 most affected.

    And no other plants from that 'throw' have this expression, to include Satori #5 (completely untouched by whatever this is), the remaining Satori #2, Goji OG, and White Lotus #4; all clear of mutations...

    And as stated, the Satori # 2's are all from the same mother, with some unscathed, and some as seen in the 'twisted pics' above.

    My mixes are nearly -always- tumbled dry in a decent size cement mixer, then hydrated, and tumbled wet. If they need adjusted, they'd be done while still in the mixer, and tumbled again. Though I think the Satori # 2 DID get its dilution to the mix by hand-mixing, though it was done pretty thoroughly.

    And there's no critters in there that I've seen recently; yellow sticky traps x 5 in each area (and let me add that THOSE things have become unreasonably and inexplicably -expensive-!! Why??!)

    Anyway, it's the most bizarre leaf configuration I've ever seen. Period.

    I was going to follow up and snag a TDS/EC pen in town today, but the fellow I was going to snag one from said he has a superior product coming in soon, at a marginally higher price than the lower end pens he had in stock; new ones coming from Milwaukee Instruments, as opposed to Blue Lab pens at nearly double the price...

    So I'll wait a bit, see a few more Docs, and by the time my head quits spinning from all of that, he should have his new wares in.

    Thanks for your input. Always welcome.

    By the way, the texture of the leaf in one or more of your pics above, can be seen on lesser affected leaves on the Satori plants with the strange distortions.

    So, again, who knows? Maybe a virus of some sort, indeed. Maybe I'll discover it has cancer-curing properties?? ;^>)

    Well, I'd best go see if any of the girls are thirsty. A good bit of the Satori, White Lotus and Goji OG is hopefully going to get used for making THC-A extract, to wage further war on my cancer. And aside from the negatively presenting plants discussed, they're looking positive, though Goji is over-fed, when Satori is just right, or so it seems.

    Take care.

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  • therevverend
    replied
    Holy shit I just uploaded a picture instead of an attachment for the first time! Took me almost an hour of messing with my albums and media page! My albums are still fucked and loading pictures into it is like pulling teeth, and I can't easily look at my pictures or anyone elses', it's a total mess, but at least it's one tiny victory.

    Leave a comment:


  • therevverend
    replied
    Totally twisted man. Gives me flashbacks to when I was beekeeping, in the early 2000's when the varroa mites were starting to get bad. There would be new bees born with chewed up wings that looked like that. Sometimes they'd look pale or under-developed. The workers would throw them out on the landing board and they'd stumble around. It was fucked up, traumatized me a bit. It can happen from natural causes, a cold night affecting the larvae's development or an old queen, but it was happening too often during nice summer weather to productive hives. I read a while back that it's one of the symptoms not of the mites but of a virus the mites spread, doesn't affect the adults but the larvae, as the mites start to hang out in the brood frames. I hate it. It was a harbinger of destruction, the colony would always weaken and lose productivity, often die completely, within a year of when it started.

    Do your plants have a fucked up fungal disease? No idea, I guess it's possible. If the only effect is only a few fucked up leaves you're lucky. I doubt that's what it is because viruses are rare and in your garden it doesn't effect all the plants They look like seedlings I've had that had their tops nibbled by slugs or sow bugs. As the leaves get big they look like that, sort of chewed up and distorted with weird development. I wonder if any critters like that could have been attracted to the heat and moisture.

    No other ideas, I've had stuff like that come up that was a mystery to me, a few twisted leaves but everything turned out fine. I've got an Ancient OG x Ancient OG that's got similar weird mutated twisted growth on top, it's been that way it's entire life. Maybe a virus but I think it's a mutant. It's siblings don't have it so I'm not going to worry about it.

    Curious how the Satori will turn out, always seemed like a nice strain I've thought about growing a couple of times. Seems to do good outdoors/indoors. I heard the same thing you hear about a lot of stuff, the stock isn't as good as it was before 2015 or 2013 or something. A lot of Dutch companies have screwed up their stock but I also wonder how much nostalgia and luck are involved. I tend to wonder about potency, some of the old Dutch strains have it and some don't, we will see?

    I'll upload a couple pictures of the mutated Ancient OG, similar growth but maybe not quite as bad. It's gotten worse as the plant has aged. (Holy shit! It just allowed me to open a picture.)

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  • Creeperpark
    replied
    I love the Ganesh too, its a little smaller and compact with a sweet smell from the same breeders.😎.

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  • moose eater
    replied
    And yes, Satori is typically easy to grow (thus far), has good production, awesome trich production, excellent flavor and high, and typically a fairly compact profile for indoor efforts.

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  • moose eater
    replied
    Thanks.

    The reason for mentioning the watering regimen was that a person with scant experience was helping me for over a month while I was debilitated, when there were a variety of plants crowded in a small space in 5"-6" pots, and without a doubt, there were variances in the saturation from pot to pot. With that, uneven drying for some, and too much saturation at times for others, I suspected there might be either root damage from drying, &/or root damage from a mid-grade or lesser fungal infection.

    I'll need to acquire an EC/TDS meter to see what the output is; don't have one here.

    They're in a SSM#4 Advanced Organic and Pro-Mix-based soilless mix, diluted after the fact to 75% of original, with lots of P (due to P being previously bound or inhibited in past analysis), and decent levels of other nutes and micro-nutes on the tests (both Mehlich III & H2O extraction) in prior 'hotter' mixes.

    Thanks.

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  • Creeperpark
    replied
    Its a hot spot in the container from having not been mixed evenly or not broken down enough. Usually when one has several plants from the same mix do well, except for one, or two, it is mostly is due to the mix not getting mixed or breaking down enough. Check the EC or ppm out the bottom with a little distilled water and you will see what I mean. The one with the leaf damage will have a higher EC or ppm if I'm not mistaken. I love Satori!! 😎

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